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Why Typing Should be through the Tertiary-Opposite (The Point of Least Resistance)

amazingdatagirl

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Yikes, did NOT intend to hijack the thread with my response to Marmie. Back to the OP...
Well, what I have noted is that individuals can understand/relate to the other functions; but they cannot relate to or at best choose to ignore their PoLR. It's a trickier business when their tert-opposite is not a J type function.
I agree that absence of certain functions is a better strategy for casual MBTI testing (for entertainment purposes only). If you have a black hole where your Fe should be then it shouldn't be difficult to that detect that "deficiency" via questionnaire. The sensory functions (Si/Se) are also easy targets. Likewise E/I preference.

IMO, online assessments have difficulty with Thinking and Intuition. Ti-doms sometimes seem like Te users. Back to Marmie's INTP example - the act of composing 86 paragraphs (and sourcing references) might be interpreted as Te activity by test writers. Also, IRL employers don't pay Ti-users to sit around all day and think - they expect Te results in return for the paycheck. Not uncommon for Thinking types to identify themselves as extraverted T's.

Intuition is so poorly understood (even by dom/aux Intuitives) that the entire domain should ideally be excluded from amateur MBTI (best left to professionals).
 
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lunalum

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This doesn't really work for me because I don't lack any of the functions :tongue: I haven't even noted any obvious gaps.

And is Tertiary-Opposite supposed to be like the 7th function (deceiving role) or something else?


YES OMGZ MY Ti IS SO WEAK!!!
Sometimes when confronted with particularly long-winded INTPs (and the occasional long-winded, Ti-heavy INFJ) ...I am like, please get to the point, thank you? Do I really have to read the 86 paragraphs of precise language you just typed? Why do your emails sound like somone's philosophy dissertation?
*dies*

:laugh: I think I have the same sort of problem. I blame some of it on the writer not being concise enough, but I know my attention span is partially to blame. Some xNTP I make...
 

InvisibleJim

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Yikes, did NOT intend to hijack the thread with my response to Marmie. Back to the OP...

I agree that absence of certain functions is a better strategy for casual MBTI testing (for entertainment purposes only). If you have a black hole where your Fe should be then it shouldn't be difficult to that detect that "deficiency" via questionnaire. The sensory functions (Si/Se) are also easy targets. Likewise E/I preference.

IMO, online assessments have difficulty with Thinking and Intuition. Ti-doms sometimes seem like Te users. Back to Marmie's INTP example - the act of composing 86 paragraphs (and sourcing references) might be interpreted as Te activity by test writers. Also, IRL employers don't pay Ti-users to sit around all day and think - they expect Te results in return for the paycheck. Not uncommon for Thinking types to gravitate towards the extraverted version.

Intuition is so poorly understood (even by dom/aux Intuitives) that the entire domain should ideally be excluded from amateur MBTI (best left to professionals).

I would say that the functions and the difference between functions and attitude are poorly understood even by the professionals, never mind the laymen. Don't even get me started on behavioural archetypes versus cognitive archetypes.
 

prplchknz

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I hate long winded people, my brother's long winded and it's like get to the fucking point. me on the other hand have always been told I'm too concise and that I need to reveal more.
 

INTP

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:laugh: I think I have the same sort of problem. I blame some of it on the writer not being concise enough, but I know my attention span is partially to blame. Some xNTP I make...

well, my ENTP friend has the same problem, i guess its the attention span thing, extraverts do have shorter attention span. but this happens with other types also, for my INFP friend its hard because he has hard time understanding logic(but his mental problems might have something to do with this also), INTJ friend wants facts not reasoning, etc etc.
 

KDude

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I don't have a hard time understanding logic per se, but I'm not inclined to talking/understanding systems in the abstract or as the things unto themselves. I'll infer some part of the system that I know, and may try to encapsulate it. Possibly with a fairy tale. :cool:
 

Totenkindly

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Also, IRL employers don't pay Ti-users to sit around all day and think - they expect Te results in return for the paycheck. Not uncommon for Thinking types to identify themselves as extraverted T's.

Agreed.

My current job of requirements analyst for software dev is probably the most directly Ti job I have ever had, since it involves flows, data modeling, etc... and can have all the business rules/processes remain fairly conceptual, since the devs are the ones who create the details of the software from the principles I spell out...

... but (albeit I was taking my time) I needed about 15-20 years to find this job.

Basically, people are paid to produce quantifiable results. Even conceptual thinkers in management still have a bottom line to adhere to.
 

sculpting

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Can you cc it to me? I might have some comments...

LOL.

My ENTP adores me greatly. However she has noted that ENFPs, including myself appear to be rididulously dumb, yet usefully smart. I explained that no, we really just jump straight to the Te end point and dont need all the details. She says, yes, aka dumb. :)

Her commentary is that if the details were not important, she wouldnt waste time giving them to me in the first place. I then explain that I cant step down a Ti path for more than about five steps before all of the details fall out of my working memory and then I have no idea why it is we were talking about the subject in the first place. To follow an extended Ti path I have to stop, and summarize every 5-10 steps-ie convert the entire thing to a NeTe series of summarized steps.

Like Marm, I often dont read INTP posts. Oddly, especially with EricB's posts, I really do want to read as I know there is value, but I "save it for later" as I know it would take too much energy time in that moment to translate, then I forget to return.

Hysterically my ENTP will read my posts and go "Does this ever end? It appears to be meaningless babble..." hehehe....I love her.
 

CuriousFeeling

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If we're going by textbook INFJ tertiary Ti, then the opposite will be Te. According to cognitive function test results I've gotten Te as a tertiary function, so the opposite would be Ti. Either way, I guess I get a bit hasty in wanting tangible results from others, a bit impatient in stressful moments, and just want to get things done and out of the way.

The trouble is, not sure if upbringing or social interactions has to do with this, I sometimes struggle to voice my demands and expectations of others, and implicitly expect them to do what is right/efficient and use their own judgment. It isn't until I see people slacking off that I tell them that they should get back to work. I end up getting into a Fe/Te conflict in that moment though, because I want people to like me and feel like I appreciate them, but at the same time, I want them to do what I expect out of them (getting the job done). A chaotic situation where there are several things happening all at once can drive me bonkers too. "Can you all just keep calm and quiet and get to work?" Too much noise and chatter when I am getting a point across, or when people should be doing their work alone really ticks me off.

From a Ti perspective... sometimes I can offer too much of a scientific explanation about things, and get very hair splitting/pedantic about concepts in general. If someone has an incorrect perception about a theory, or has a question about something theoretical, my explanations can be a bit too technical. To me, I'm using the precise meaning of the point that I am making, but sometimes the precise meaning or term may be too vague/abstract for the other person to understand. Theoretically the term fits. lol I guess in my explanations my delivery can be a bit blunt too (not sure if that's Te or Ti). Can be a bit off-putting for some people, especially when I want to have the point cut to the chase.

If either situation is indicative of other functions, then feel free to elaborate.
 

amazingdatagirl

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If we're going by textbook INFJ tertiary Ti, then the opposite will be Te. According to cognitive function test results I've gotten Te as a tertiary function...
Exactly the point that I was making - online tests do a TERRIBLE job of differentiating between Ti and Te. I also get high Te score on the free tests.

Next time that you take an online test, right click on the html page and select "View Source". The functional mapping is often stored in hidden form tags. When I compare my answers with the form values, there is a huge difference in my interpretation of the question and the function that is supposedly being tested.
 
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CuriousFeeling

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Exactly the point that I was making - online tests do a TERRIBLE job of differentiating between Ti and Te. I also get high Te score on the free tests.

If I spot key words such as "contingency planning" or "efficiency" then I know it's Te related. If it says something along the lines of "internal logic" then it's Ti.
 

lunalum

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Exactly the point that I was making - online tests do a TERRIBLE job of differentiating between Ti and Te. I also get high Te score on the free tests.

Yeah, the tests are no good at all for determining the roles of functions (except, maybe, the dominant and auxiliary). I think it starts making more sense when they are thought of in these roles instead of the supposed strengths of usage. I'm still skeptical though that the tertiary-opposite is the role that we are necessarily weakest at.
 

strychnine

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I have worst "use" and most rejection of Si or Fe (meaning that I reject Si and Fe attitudes and dislike them strongly in other people), which are supposed to be my 'double agents'. Who knows anymore...
 

/DG/

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It's too subconscious for the individual to see (as is the anima/animus to begin with). Now the tertiary opposite is a more obvious gap.

Hmmm... so would the eighth function be like something you rarely use and just don't understand at all? And as for the tertiary opposite, would this be the function that someone is the least skilled in using (aside from the last function), or rather something that causes them great discomfort? For example, I use a sort of internalized version of Fe (not to be confused with Fi) all the time, but I HATE it. I also hate it when people get all mushy-gushy, touchy-feely with me. Would you assume Fe to be my tertiary opposite or no because I tend to use it a lot?
 

Eric B

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The 8 function order is not about strength or frequency of "use". Lenore Thomson's "ship" theory says that the 7th and 8th (which she actually places 3rd and 4th!) are the brain hemisphere alternatives we run to when the dominant and auxiliary can't solve a problem. There seems to be something to that, as they often come up strong in the cognitive process tests. (And the inferior and often tertiary as weakest).
 

amazingdatagirl

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The 8 function order is not about strength or frequency of "use". Lenore Thomson's "ship" theory says that the 7th and 8th (which she actually places 3rd and 4th!) are the brain hemisphere alternatives we run to when the dominant and auxiliary can't solve a problem. There seems to be something to that, as they often come up strong in the cognitive process tests. (And the inferior and often tertiary as weakest).
Trickster and daemon tend to be higher in cognitive process test? If true, wouldn't this invalidate the whole notion of function based typing?
 

Fluffywolf

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I am the king of Sensotardia.

As far as I am aware, I do not believe I have any subjects and my kingdom is mine alone.

PS: Failure to see the irony is considered a crime in my kingdom. *waves kingly cane menacingly, knocking over several vases in the process*
 

cascadeco

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The 8 function order is not about strength or frequency of "use". Lenore Thomson's "ship" theory says that the 7th and 8th (which she actually places 3rd and 4th!) are the brain hemisphere alternatives we run to when the dominant and auxiliary can't solve a problem. There seems to be something to that, as they often come up strong in the cognitive process tests . (And the inferior and often tertiary as weakest).

Where do you see this happening? Who do you know irl where this is reflected? (aside from yourself, as I'm assuming part of why you see credence in the theory is because you notice it reflecting in your own self?)

To the bolded, I have yet to see any patterns of INxJ's on the forum where Si comes in stronger than Ti/Fi, or even Se.
 

Jaguar

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Where do you see this happening? Who do you know irl where this is reflected? (aside from yourself, as I'm assuming part of why you see credence in the theory is because you notice it reflecting in your own self?)

Surely you've noticed certain people genuflect in the presence of Lenore Thomson. If she said cancer cells dance an Irish Jig, some people would actually believe it. Top o' the mornin' to ya lassie.
 

Eric B

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Trickster and daemon tend to be higher in cognitive process test? If true, wouldn't this invalidate the whole notion of function based typing?
You have to make sure of the role the function is playing in your consciousness. The only functions that determine type are the dominant and auxiliary. The others are sort of "mirrors" that fall into place based on the dom. and aux. That is, according to roles, not necessarily strengths.

So if you have conflicting functions all coming out strongly, then it's just a matter of verifying which ones are truly "preferred". The ones that are shadow will likely have some sort of negative context (even if it's a positive compensation in some negative situation), where the preferred ones are your default perception and judgment processes.
Where do you see this happening? Who do you know irl where this is reflected? (aside from yourself, as I'm assuming part of why you see credence in the theory is because you notice it reflecting in your own self?)

To the bolded, I have yet to see any patterns of INxJ's on the forum where Si comes in stronger than Ti/Fi, or even Se.
I was thinking more of NTP and NFP results, which I remember more. I know for INTP's Se is often high (I seem to be a big exception), and Fi also seems to be high most of the time. (This also includes results posted on other boards, such as INTPc) For NFP's, Ti is often strong. (I guess for NJ's it's been a little different).

This is just an evidence I use, for the brain lateral theory. It has come out similar to that order enough to make note of it, even though there is no perfect consistency in it.
 
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