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Rappers and S/N.

chickpea

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Is word play Ne? Why couldn't an S function accomplish word play or puns?

yes, i just don't think it'd be the main focus. most of his songs are just a series of metaphors that he connects together, there's no linear structure/story like i find in a lot of s rappers. idk i just don't see any evidence of him using se other than materialism.
 

Elfboy

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Is word play Ne? Why couldn't an S function accomplish word play or puns?

word play is not exclusive to N types, but it is exclusive to N functions. S types can use word play (and they do) but they're using Intuition during this time :yes:
 

KDude

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Rakim is ISTP, I think. And yet a great majority (of fans and artists alike) consider him one of the best MCs of all time. Also the first to introduce internal rhyming (rather than the run d.m.c. style), so it doesn't stop him from being sophisticated.

I see both Se/Ni in his songs and themes, but his main fixation is on technique. He doesn't embellish himself very much in Se with how much he has a stake in it exactly - his songs often come off more observer-like, and simple enjoyment in it. Most of his songs are about his scope on the world, and dismissing everyone who doesn't have any skills. He isn't the only rapper with this kind of duelist/Musashi mentality, but he's kind of unique in being one of the few who doesn't have any particular message other than that skill is the thing in itself.

And no, not all sensors are necessarily attracted to simply indulging in the concrete or sensory. ISPs are different in that they basically want a place in it, but that straddles more originality and internal purpose. And not just want this, but often pull it off more smoothly than N's who try to be cool in that sense.

The only N I think he could possibly be is ENTJ, but besides his stoicism and more nuanced focus on craft, I think he would have taken control of his career more if he had been Te (not quite as tragic as it could have been, but he got legally manipulated and blindsided in this area more than I expect ENTJ would).

[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vi8iQqdLdFc].[/youtube]
 

Eric B

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Rakim is ISTP, I think. And yet a great majority (of fans and artists alike) consider him one of the best MCs of all time. Also the first to introduce internal rhyming (rather than the run d.m.c. style), so it doesn't stop him from being sophisticated.
I see the Wikipedia article says that, but he wasn't the first. Little internal rhymes appeared in rap lines from the beginning.The first time they were used prominently was in Educated Rapper's lines from "Roxanne, Roxanne".
What Rakim and others of his period like KRS did was disperse them more throughout the raps, including on the second part of the line instead of the first.
 

KDude

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Well, your name is Eric B. I suppose I should take your word for it. :laugh:
 

Thalassa

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S Rappers: Nelly (ESFP), Ice Cube (ESFP),
N Rappers: 50 Cent (ENTJ), Lloyd Banks (INTJ), Gipp (ENFP), Nicki Minaj (ENTP), Chamillionaire (?NFP), Lil Wayne (?NTP), Drake (INFP)
dunno: Ludacris (E??P), Chalie Boy (E??P), Eminem

Why would Drake be an INFP? Am I missing something? I don't see it. At all.

I would believe Tupac to be an N though. Eminem is probably ISFP.
 

Thalassa

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No, I don't.

You can't perceive a function by their lyrical content only. You have to do some homework, study their interviews, especially those that are more candid and on the spot.
And you have to remember that people have access to all functions, so a rapper could be tapping into something they don't use on a day to day basis when they are crafting their art.
And then some rappers have ghostwriters, so they are just BITRs.

Lupe's is a great conceptual story teller, but if you listen to him speak, I'd give him an S- ISTJ
Jay-Z is very ISTJ, but people mistake his years of experience and exposure with Ni.
Kanye's ENxJ- most likely T, but the verdict's out IMO.

I think Kanye West would be ENTJ. Inferior Fi would explain lots.
 

Elfboy

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Why would Drake be an INFP? Am I missing something? I don't see it. At all.

I would believe Tupac to be an N though. Eminem is probably ISFP.

Drake doesn't seem very S to me, at least in this interview
 

animenagai

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I think Lupe's definitely some sort of N. I'm guessing XNTP. Xzibit looks like an ENFP. Lil Wayne seems ENTP to me.
 

Snuggletron

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Drake doesn't seem very S to me, at least in this interview

why not? this interview involves him walking out, saying "yes", laughing, and nodding about being jewish. Not sure where the S or N is...
 

Elfboy

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why not? this interview involves him walking out, saying "yes", laughing, and nodding about being jewish. Not sure where the S or N is...

he just strikes me as a more detached, intellectual person than most pop artists. I can only base this off of subjective vibes, but his vibe is much more N than S to me
 

Thalassa

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he just strikes me as a more detached, intellectual person than most pop artists. I can only base this off of subjective vibes, but his vibe is much more N than S to me

His lyrics don't strike me as N at all, though you might be getting some supposed "detatched and intellectual" vibe by merit of him being born into a wealthy family.

He didn't graduate high school, and his lyrics are pretty shallow, so then I can't say he's actually intellectual. He might just be upper middle class or somethiing. And properly Canadian.
 

Elfboy

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His lyrics don't strike me as N at all, though you might be getting some supposed "detatched and intellectual" vibe by merit of him being born into a wealthy family.

He didn't graduate high school, and his lyrics are pretty shallow, so then I can't say he's actually intellectual. He might just be upper middle class or somethiing. And properly Canadian.

that doesn't have to do with S/N. there are tons of ENTJ entrepreneurs for instance who dropped out of high school to become decamillionaires
 

Thalassa

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Yeah, I'm just saying he really doesn't strike me as especially N in his lyrics, and I don't see anything necessarily N about him...but I see him as being a sheltered Canadian boy who lived in a wealthy neighborhood. Not the same thing as being N.
 

Elfboy

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Yeah, I'm just saying he really doesn't strike me as especially N in his lyrics, and I don't see anything necessarily N about him...but I see him as being a sheltered Canadian boy who lived in a wealthy neighborhood. Not the same thing as being N.

Ne can be extremely shallow. many comedians who are shallow use tons of Ne (case in point, Dave Chappelle, ENFP)
 

Thalassa

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Ne can be extremely shallow. many comedians who are shallow use tons of Ne (case in point, Dave Chappelle, ENFP)

Where do you see any Intuition in Drake's lyrics? When I say Drake's lyrics are shallow they are enitrely about five senses material things...Tupac's music had more of a message than Drake. So does Eminem for that matter.

I'm actually not a fan of Drake, but I was forced to read his lyrics for a contrast paper I wrote once and I like, wanted to laugh at him.

Just because someone acts like that doesn't make them an N. My sister's fiance was born into a wealthy family. He acts very subdued and proper and has that sort of air about him. I also suspect he's probably an ISFJ (my sister's fiance, not Drake).

I just want to clarify here too, that I know him not graduating high school has nothing to do with S/N. I was countering your argument of him seeming "detached and intellectual" ...I have an ENFJ friend who didn't graduate, got her GED, went to design school, and became very successful at it.

I also don't think Drake's lyrics are shallow because he's an S...I mean, I think Eminem is ISFP, but his lyrics are great and sometimes have a lot of meaning...it's just that the particular way that Drake's lyrics are shallow make me think S, for sure.
 

Elfboy

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Where do you see any Intuition in Drake's lyrics? When I say Drake's lyrics are shallow they are enitrely about five senses material things...Tupac's music had more of a message than Drake. So does Eminem for that matter.
I'm actually not a fan of Drake, but I was forced to read his lyrics for a contrast paper I wrote once and I like, wanted to laugh at him.

Just because someone acts like that doesn't make them an N. My sister's fiance was born into a wealthy family. He acts very subdued and proper and has that sort of air about him. I also suspect he's probably an ISFJ (my sister's fiance, not Drake).

I just want to clarify here too, that I know him not graduating high school has nothing to do with S/N. I was countering your argument of him seeming "detached and intellectual" ...I have an ENFJ friend who didn't graduate, got her GED, went to design school, and became very successful at it.

I also don't think Drake's lyrics are shallow because he's an S...I mean, I think Eminem is ISFP, but his lyrics are great and sometimes have a lot of meaning...it's just that the particular way that Drake's lyrics are shallow make me think S, for sure.

this is a 7 thing, not an S thing. 7s are all about luxury, sex and hedonism no matter what type they are. my own tastes are extremely sensory oriented when it comes to music. for instance, I am training to become an opera singer and I really don't care at all about storyline, emotional expression or acting. in short, the artistic side of opera holds little appeal for me, I just want to hear a beauty voice that sounds pretty and has good technique. when I listen to music, I ask
1) is the melody catchy?
2) does the singer have good technique?
3) does the singer have a beautiful voice?
4) are there any moments in the song that make me go "whoa!" (mariah carey's cheesy high notes for example)
this does not make me a Sensor, it simply means that music as a whole is not an intellectual/artistic endeavor for me as much as a more sophisticated hedonistic pleasure
 

KDude

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Are you sure? I figured that Doc from Back to the Future (for example) is probably a 7 ENTP. He isn't hedonistic.

Halla74 is an ESTP 7, and even though he's Se, he isn't just 7 for those things.. if at all. It's more like his whole kind of amped/ADD attitude (sorry Halla if you're reading this.. you say yourself you have ADD :cool:).
 

Elfboy

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Are you sure? I figured that Doc from Back to the Future (for example) is probably a 7 ENTP. He isn't hedonistic.

Halla74 is an ESTP 7, and even though he's Se, he isn't just 7 for those things.. if at all. It's more like his whole kind of amped/ADD attitude (sorry Halla if you're reading this.. you say yourself you have ADD :cool:).

7s with integration to 5 are usually highly introspective, intellectual and deep, but this is merely a more sophisticated, intellectual level of enjoying pleasure. as such, 7s of all types will probably be highly motivated by various sensory pleasures like good food, comfort, sex, and aesthetic appeal. the growth to 5 merely allows us to fully understand and thus fully enjoy these experiences, but the motivation remains the same.

from www.enneagraminstitute.com

Type Seven—More Depth by Level
Healthy Levels
Level 1 (At Their Best): Assimilate experiences in depth, making them deeply grateful and appreciative for what they have. Become awed by the simple wonders of life: joyous and ecstatic. Intimations of spiritual reality, of the boundless goodness of life.

Level 2: Highly responsive, excitable, enthusiastic about sensation and experience. Most extroverted type: stimuli bring immediate responses—they find everything invigorating. Lively, vivacious, eager, spontaneous, resilient, cheerful.

Level 3: Easily become accomplished achievers, generalists who do many different things well: multi-talented. Practical, productive, usually prolific, cross-fertilizing areas of interest.
 

guesswho

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that doesn't have to do with S/N. there are tons of ENTJ entrepreneurs for instance who dropped out of high school to become decamillionaires

:doh:

who the hell drops out of high school!??!!??!?!?!?!??!?! (and makes "decamillions" without becoming a drug dealer or getting involved in any other criminal activity)

They're like 0.0001% of the general population, not exactly tons

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