Discuss this analogy of Fi and Se in isfp

[Thalassa]

This is pretty interesting. It's probably fair to say that the prevailing ideas about Se on this forum are in fact set by Ni doms (and most vocally by INTJs) so yeah, they're skewed by bizarre inferior strangeness and tend to fixate largely on sexuality and animal magnetism with a wee dose of MacGyver.

What do you think are the differences between low Ne and Ni and high Ne and Ni which this forum is failing to acknowledge?

There is a kind of paranoia and tunnel vision to low Ni and a stupid silliness to low Ne that is indulged. Actually I honestly think low Ni is tolerated a little less because it is so individual. Low Ne is indulged freely ...I am not saying it shouldn't be, I am suggesting it shouldn't be deemed smarter in some way than low Se.

I honestly don't get any more pleasure out of Raptor Wizards ridiculous bullshit than I do out of listening to a Hannah Montana montage. It reminds me of a severely bipolar homeless man in my French class in college. But nooooooo....that's better than being Miley Cyrus.

At least Miley Cyrus can function in the world. All bad or low perceiving functions reach a terrible end. AS IF.

Also, I do think the MacGuyver comparison is fair.

 

[Qre:us]

^FiSeTe

 

[cascadeco]

Se for me is the life of an animal; devoid of purpose and meaning, blindly riding the waves of your own neuroses and primal urges (although who am I talk when it comes to the former) until you eventually reach your demise. The social and professional world is nothing more than a sophisticated translation of the animal kingdom, and I'd much rather observe it from afar through fiction (where humanity is easier to sympathize with) than to give myself up to the ignorance, petty drama and prescribed routine inherent to it.

Se in a nutshell.

Interesting, it seems you have a pretty negative view of Se. How did you come about this?

I mean I too have a repulsion towards things devoid of purpose and meaning, and elements of social and professional world that you refer to, and the 'game' that it seems it can be, with pettiness; however I think it's short-sighted to label these as being solely in the realm of Se, which it seems like you're doing? I think one could argue all cognitive functions can come into play with regards to these dynamics and elements of humanity/culture... as well as biology/hormones, and elements of personality that transcend cognitive functions (greed, ego, defenses, addictions, and so on)....the petty, short-sighted 'mean girls' /bullies in school, or corporate ladder climbers, could be/are just as often NOT Se-users as Se users, in other words.

I love Se, and see many positives in it. But of course it, like any other function/preference/way of being and seeing the world, will have its negative tendencies and blind spots.

 

[Stansmith]

Interesting, it seems you have a pretty negative view of Se. How did you come about this?

I mean I too have a repulsion towards things devoid of purpose and meaning, and elements of social and professional world that you refer to, and the 'game' that it seems it can be, with pettiness; however I think it's short-sighted to label these as being solely in the realm of Se, which it seems like you're doing? I think one could argue all cognitive functions can come into play with regards to these dynamics and elements of humanity/culture... as well as biology/hormones, and elements of personality that transcend cognitive functions (greed, ego, defenses, addictions, and so on)....the petty, short-sighted 'mean girls' /bullies in school, or corporate ladder climbers, could be/are just as often NOT Se-users as Se users, in other words.

I love Se, and see many positives in it. But of course it, like any other function/preference/way of being and seeing the world, will have its negative tendencies and blind spots.

Se to me is accepting the world as it is; taking things as they are, embracing mediocrity and boredom in the process. Playing 'the game' when I already know all of the moves and possible outcomes, none of which appeal to me.

 

[brainheart]

Se to me is accepting the world as it is; taking things as they are, embracing mediocrity and boredom in the process. Playing 'the game' when I already know all of the moves and possible outcomes, none of which appeal to me.

You seem to be on an anti-Se kick lately- glorifying INFPs and whatnot. Is this your way of telling yourself you aren't an ISFP? You know, maybe you aren't. I really can't see an ISFP hating Se so much. That said, I'm an INFP and I think Se pretty much kicks ass. (But I also don't hate Ne.)

Have you ever watched an animal? I mean really sat there and watched? There is more poetic beauty in animals and how they interact with the world than in great numbers of humans. My cat will sit outside as the world gets dark, just watching, and I know she appreciates the beauty of the world. Many people are so blind to the greatness in the simple things that surround them.

 

[011235813]

There is a kind of paranoia and tunnel vision to low Ni and a stupid silliness to low Ne that is indulged. Actually I honestly think low Ni is tolerated a little less because it is so individual. Low Ne is indulged freely ...I am not saying it shouldn't be, I am suggesting it shouldn't be deemed smarter in some way than low Se.

I honestly don't get any more pleasure out of Raptor Wizards ridiculous bullshit than I do out of listening to a Hannah Montana montage. It reminds me of a severely bipolar homeless man in my French class in college. But nooooooo....that's better than being Miley Cyrus.

At least Miley Cyrus can function in the world. All bad or low perceiving functions reach a terrible end. AS IF.

Also, I do think the MacGuyver comparison is fair.

So are you saying RaptorWizard is a sensor? I mean, given the fact that the quality of his intuition strikes you as poor, wouldn't that mean that it's actually low Ne?

At the same time, it seems ridiculous that a sensor with low intuition would be that out of touch with the world. I don't even know anymore.

 

[Sunny Ghost]

Seems to me like Miley Cyrus is suffering from being out of touch with herself.

I agree with [MENTION=7140]brainheart[/MENTION] that Se can be used for beauty. I liked the cat example. And to be honest, it's something I catch myself doing a lot: just staring out into the world and observing it for what it is. I sit on my porch and just examine the sun's ray's coming in through the tree's and watch the wind carry through the branches and leaves fall. I become entranced by the dust particles that flicker in the sunlight blowing about. It's just beautiful. [MENTION=18664]Stansmith[/MENTION], I don't think it's boring or animalistic. It's appreciation for what is. It doesn't require more in order to be entertained or satisfied.

 

[Lady_X]

Se for me is the life of an animal; devoid of purpose and meaning, blindly riding the waves of your own neuroses and primal urges (although who am I talk when it comes to the former) until you eventually reach your demise. The social and professional world is nothing more than a sophisticated translation of the animal kingdom, and I'd much rather observe it from afar through fiction (where humanity is easier to sympathize with) than to give myself up to the ignorance, petty drama and prescribed routine inherent to it.

Se in a nutshell.

ahhhh!!!! that face!!! why!!?? that tongue thing is so horrendous!

 

[Lady_X]

So are you saying RaptorWizard is a sensor? I mean, given the fact that the quality of his intuition strikes you as poor, wouldn't that mean that it's actually low Ne?

At the same time, it seems ridiculous that a sensor with low intuition would be that out of touch with the world. I don't even know anymore.

i took that she meant low ne for him...like ridiculous silliness

i'd like to read about it more...will have to see if i can find it.

se is super interesting to me. i do wish we had more se users here.

 

[chubber]

i took that she meant low ne for him...like ridiculous silliness

i'd like to read about it more...will have to see if i can find it.

se is super interesting to me. i do wish we had more se users here.

We do actually have one, SeFi [MENTION=19503]Comeback Girl[/MENTION]

 

[wolfy]

Se to me is accepting the world as it is; taking things as they are, embracing mediocrity and boredom in the process. Playing 'the game' when I already know all of the moves and possible outcomes, none of which appeal to me.

I can understand that view. It is more a view of society than Se itself though. Se itself has no character, has no moral agenda. It is just a means of perceiving, a tendency of perceiving.

It is hard to have an ideal and also see reality. To hold on to something that drives you while understanding and using reality without becoming cynical. I feel that is what the original quote is about. That seems the challenge for isfp.

 

[James W]

If you live in close contact with your inner world, it's a lot like living by the sea. You can get flooded unless you can build a structure to meet your needs. Your first instinct, however, is to build the kind of house townspeople live in, because that's the kind of shelter others will help you construct. This is precisely the kind of house that will be ruined when the tide rises. For a while you think, "I should have built a better townhouse" but gradually you reject others advice and you live without structure,
Why not build the kind of house that will serve your actual needs? Build the kind of house that fishermen build, one the water can go through without knocking it down...
Well developed isfp live, as it were, between the sea and the town, doing what they need to do. In consequence, their creations, their choices, their way of being...[/I]

I think this is one of my favorite interpretations of the ISFP and how they perceive reality in terms of their Se.

I love how Personality Types stresses the point that you should focus on developing your axillary functions in order to reach your full potential as opposed to your tertiary function, which can oftentimes mess you up completely if used incorrectly.

I've noticed that that ISFP's can often turn things like aesthetic beauty to channel their Se, which is seems to be a hot topic for discussion in this thread. Things like tattoos, body piercings, hair dye and just the process of reinventing themselves when they feel they've done all they can do with their current style in that David Bowie kind of way. Do Fi Se users find this helps them build a stronger case of identity?

 

[Cellmold]

I love how Personality Types stresses the point that you should focus on developing your axillary functions in order to reach your full potential as opposed to your tertiary function, which can oftentimes mess you up completely if used incorrectly.

I always liked this point that Lenore Thompson mentions, she posits that tertiary functions are often used defensively to distance an individual from self revelation, which is reached, usually, by training their secondary function on themselves.

Although admittedly her ISFJ advice was unhelpful in my case. Turning myself into a paragon of my environment and community by recognising my place in it through Fe, is exactly the thing I need to get away from. But of course it's easy to argue that in this case I must have missed the point.

 

[James W]

I always liked this point that Lenore Thompson mentions, she posits that tertiary functions are often used defensively to distance an individual from self revelation, which is reached, usually, by training their secondary function on themselves.

Although admittedly her ISFJ advice was unhelpful in my case. Turning myself into a paragon of my environment and community by recognising my place in it through Fe, is exactly the thing I need to get away from. But of course it's easy to argue that in this case I must have missed the point.

Is there such thing as an Si Ti loop?

I knew this one ISFJ girl who was a total wallflower. She was crazy smart but at the same time, extremely shy and had trouble expressing herself in ways that made sense to any kind of reality half the time.

In her case, channeling that Fe would have been helpful in becoming better at learning people's expectations and influencing people to her advantage. Of course, I can only really see Ti as a problem when it becomes a case of moon logic and has no basis for the outside world. In most cases, it's just a handy form of troubleshooting and seeing the connections that others might have difficulty with.

 

[Cellmold]

In her case, channeling that Fe would have been helpful in becoming better at learning people's expectations and influencing people to her advantage. Of course, I can only really see Ti as a problem when it becomes a case of moon logic and has no basis for the outside world. In most cases, it's just a handy form of troubleshooting and seeing the connections that others might have difficulty with.

The way INTP's go on about it, you would think it was the truth function or something...

As for peoples expectations...I'm too aware of them. Although it probably would help me to develop Fe so as to understand where my obligations end.

 

[James W]

The way INTP's go on about it, you would think it was the truth function or something...

Hahaha. So many conspiracy theories... so little time...

As for peoples expectations...I'm too aware of them. Although it probably would help me to develop Fe so as to understand where my obligations end.

So very true. I dislike the stereotype that ISFJs are all pushovers to some degree. Knowing when your obligations end as a cool, helpful person is a great middle finger to that notion.

 

[wolfy]

I think this is one of my favorite interpretations of the ISFP and how they perceive reality in terms of their Se.

I love how Personality Types stresses the point that you should focus on developing your axillary functions in order to reach your full potential as opposed to your tertiary function, which can oftentimes mess you up completely if used incorrectly.

I've noticed that that ISFP's can often turn things like aesthetic beauty to channel their Se, which is seems to be a hot topic for discussion in this thread. Things like tattoos, body piercings, hair dye and just the process of reinventing themselves when they feel they've done all they can do with their current style in that David Bowie kind of way. Do Fi Se users find this helps them build a stronger case of identity?

It is a very clever analogy because you do feel in between. Aesthetics is nice because you have some control over it, and it is subjective which is freeing in a way. I seem to find purely subjective or purely objective most freeing. For different reasons. Subjective is expression and objective provides limits and guidelines to work from.

 

[Cellmold]

So very true. I dislike the stereotype that ISFJs are all pushovers to some degree. Knowing when your obligations end as a cool, helpful person is a great middle finger to that notion.

I've quit more than a few jobs on that principal alone.