What's the difference between a shy extrovert and an introvert?

[Quinlan]

I definitely get energised by "Se" being out exploring the world, living in the moment etc. but I still feel like an introvert.

I tend to think an ESFP and an ISFP will both be energised by Fi and Se aswell, it's just a matter of where you're most at home. Given that I've been on this site for ages and still don't really get what Fi is all about probably doesn't help either.

 

[Thalassa]

I'm an extravert who isn't a "people person" in the traditional sense. E/I has been *the* hardest thing for me. I can be a real chatterbox, though, talking and ranting, or talking through problems...I've found myself apologizing occasionally to people once I get started because I won't stop talking.

The thing is though, I don't like to be constantly engaged with people, I like solitude, and I've got no problems putting up walls when I don't want to be approached. However, Eric B had an interesting post in another thread about how informing initiators (like ExxPs) may approach other people very easily, but then not necessarily want to be approached by unwanted people themselves.

I don't think extravert means "takes all comers" or "wants to socialize all day" and definitely not in the Jungian sense. I think ExFJs are more likely to be traditionally extroverted though, IME. They really like to be around people, and ESxPs are going to be a little more extroverted than ENxPs, but maybe not as extroverted as ExFJs.

I remember getting in trouble for talking in class or doing weird things to draw attention to myself as a child, and initiating things - like getting my friends to put on a burlesque show at a slumber party - and I'm not too sure these are INFP traits, no matter how much I might like my alone time.

 

[Thalassa]

I don't know if there's such a harsh line between introverts and extroverts as we like to think. There are some people who are pretty extreme in one way or another, but not everyone is like that. I consider myself pretty close on introversion/extroversion too. Sometimes people and external events really energize me, sometimes they really drain me and I just want to nap.

I keep hearing that ISFPs are the extroverted introverts and ENFPs are the introverted extroverts, so we're just doomed to be confused.

 

[Eric B]

I'm an extravert who isn't a "people person" in the traditional sense. E/I has been *the* hardest thing for me. I can be a real chatterbox, though, talking and ranting, or talking through problems...I've found myself apologizing occasionally to people once I get started because I won't stop talking.

The thing is though, I don't like to be constantly engaged with people, I like solitude, and I've got no problems putting up walls when I don't want to be approached. However, Eric B had an interesting post in another thread about how informing initiators (like ExxPs) may approach other people very easily, but then not necessarily want to be approached by unwanted people themselves.

I remember getting in trouble for talking in class or doing weird things to draw attention to myself as a child, and initiating things - like getting my friends to put on a burlesque show at a slumber party - and I'm not too sure these are INFP traits, no matter how much I might like my alone time.

What I was referring to there was directing (as opposed to informing) and/or structure focused, as being the ones who do not want to be approached (It's not that they never want to be, but the other other person must meet a criteria). Initiators, or In Charge (EST/ENJ) are the directives. ESF/ENP are called Coworkers or Get Things Going.

But you're ENFP, which is neither directing, not structure focused.
I see that when you did the Inclusion/Control/Affection profiles, you identified as Phlegmatic Sanguine in Inclusion (which is basically an ambiverted version of Get things Going), and one of two Phlegmatic blend types in Control, which would loosely fit NF. Phlegmatic is basically moderate. Hence, ambiversion on the social level, and both a democratic as well as "take 'em or leave 'em" attitude in the Control area.

That's likely why you're not completely people-focused and get tired of them eventually.

So the presence of ambiverted temperament variations (though not recognized in MBTI) is another thing that might blur the line between introversion and extraversion.

 

[Thalassa]

What I was referring to there was directing (as opposed to informing) and/or structure focused, as being the ones who do not want to be approached (It's not that they never want to be, but the other other person must meet a criteria). Initiators, or In Charge (EST/ENJ) are the directives. ESF/ENP are called Coworkers or Get Things Going.

But you're ENFP, which is neither directing, not structure focused.
I see that when you did the Inclusion/Control/Affection profiles, you identified as Phlegmatic Sanguine in Inclusion (which is basically an ambiverted version of Get things Going), and one of two Phlegmatic blend types in Control, which would loosely fit NF. Phlegmatic is basically moderate. Hence, ambiversion on the social level, and both a democratic as well as "take 'em or leave 'em" attitude in the Control area.

That's likely why you're not completely people-focused and get tired of them eventually.

So the presence of ambiverted temperament variations (though not recognized in MBTI) is another thing that might blur the line between introversion and extraversion.

So are you saying I'm actually xNFP, a real ambivert in personality...or just that I'm an ENFP with ambiverted temperament?

 

[skylights]

I do know a lot of people and tend to call many of them "friends" though strictly speaking most of them are more acquaintances - I only have a handful I consider really close. And I also know that being an "extrovert" doesn't automatically mean you have lots of friends. But it's still odd how this seems to happen.

i have lots of... tiers? of friends? like i have my best friend, who knows me nearly as well as i do. then a handful of very close friends - maybe like 4 of those - then good friends from college and high school... maybe like 10 of those... people i talk to on facebook and/or could easily go grab a drink with - then regular friends... people i know somewhat well and i'd be happy to spend a few hours with but we're not super close... then friend-acquaintances... then actual acquaintances.

Yeah, I think this is approaching the true distinction. An extravert doesn't necessarily have to be the people-pleasing type that everyone imagines; it's more that they will feel like they're flailing and stressed out if they don't have regular engagement with the external world. So while introvert A and extravert B might socialize equally little, extravert B is going to feel more like shit about it than introvert A.

yeah i totally agree with this.

With shy extroverts, I think once engaged fail to disengage easily. Where as with myself, I can engage easily, but fail to keep it up for an extended period. I have many many acquaintances because I'm always friendly. I have few close friends, however, because honestly, I'm just not that sociable.

i tend not to keep many close friends either though because i am sort of picky :/ like i love lots of people but hanging out with them for long periods of time is a different story. it's easier for me to hang out with lots of different people throughout the week than to hang out with the same few people unless they are people i really really like - in which case i could easily spend a whole week just with them.

I don't think extravert means "takes all comers" or "wants to socialize all day" and definitely not in the Jungian sense.

agreed.

i actually am not very much a fan of initiating contact with others but once i am friends with others i do tend to initiate projects / games / etc. i like when people initiate contact with me, but that doesn't necessarily mean i want to talk to them for very long. same thing as before... i just have a high social stimulation need/tolerance. it doesn't extend into the realms of me (a) not needing solitude or (b) liking everyone.

haha, introvert/extravert test... would you rather be stuck in a mansion for a week with a big group of people, with no privacy (minus the bathroom of course), or alone in the house for a week, no social contact whatsoever allowed?

(joking... i do not know how accurate that would be lol)

 

[Thalassa]

I would be very depressed with no social contact what-so-ever allowed, I think, for an entire week...like if I couldn't even chat with people on-line.

Then again, if the house was really cool, and I had a lot of books, and it was in this really nice natural area with trees and a lake, river or ocean near-by, being alone wouldn't be bad. I might actually get more writing done.

Neither one of those things sounds especially pleasant, but being in a mansion for a week with a bunch of people does sound kind of like an adventure. Of course, I'm imagining that the mansion is haunted or a murder has to be solved, which would be even better if all those people were around.

/crazy

 

[Xenon]

I'd definitely choose to be alone for a week at a mansion, no contest at all. I actually think that'd be pretty fun for me, to have a whole mansion to myself for a week. lol.

I just remembered, the psychologist Marti Laney suggests this test for people who are uncertain:

If you don't feel like you fit one side more than the other, even by 51% to 49%, then ask yourself this question: If there is an emergency do you tend to stand still and feel somewhat shutdown or in slow motion? If you have a standstill reaction to stress more often, then you are probably an introvert. In a crisis do you tend to move your body immediately and feel like taking action, maybe without pausing to think? Then you are probably an extrovert if you react with movement. Under stress we can experience our innate temperament.

 

[OrangeAppled]

Shyness is social discomfort or anxiety. Introversion is about preference. It's a personality trait that involves a preference for relatively less stimulation and interaction, and relatively more internal processing of ideas. You can be both, and they often do go together, but not always.

This is important to remember. Introversion is not shyness, but shy extroverts can confuse themselves as introverts because they have a social anxiety which makes interaction unpleasant, and so they avoid it. A non-shy introvert can occasionally appear very outgoing in a social situation, often for short bursts (this is my ISFJ mom). You'll hear the focus of their thoughts, however, in their expressions. Then, their mindset will become apparent.

I/E is about the focus of your mind. The "roles" of your cognitive processes can clue you into what is dominant. The aux function is usually supportive of the focus of the dom function....for example, in a recent Fi thread, there was some discussion of how Fi in the aux position is more people-focused than a Fi-dom's Fi. This is because it's supporting extroverted aims. It helps determine meaning & value in an external context as viewed through a Pe mindset. Pe in the aux position instead gives a context to & finds a fit in the external world for the internal valuations of Fi, which means mental concepts of the ideal are often focused on over literal people. Think about this in terms of any type & you'll be able to "see" the focus of people despite their social demeanors.

 

[Thalassa]

I'd definitely choose to be alone for a week at a mansion, no contest at all. I actually think that'd be pretty fun for me, to have a whole mansion to myself for a week. lol.

I just remembered, the psychologist Marti Laney suggests this test for people who are uncertain:

People who immediately react or take charge are extroverts? Or just types with more Se or Te?

Anyway, by that definition I'd be an extravert.

 

[Anew Leaf]

If you don't feel like you fit one side more than the other, even by 51% to 49%, then ask yourself this question: If there is an emergency do you tend to stand still and feel somewhat shutdown or in slow motion? If you have a standstill reaction to stress more often, then you are probably an introvert. In a crisis do you tend to move your body immediately and feel like taking action, maybe without pausing to think? Then you are probably an extrovert if you react with movement. Under stress we can experience our innate temperament.

I am a super introvert but when there is an actual crisis, I calm down, focus, and get shit done.

Now, when the "crisis" is all in my head.... Well, that's when I bog down in INFP land and don't do anything about anything.

And as hermity as I am.... I was sick a couple years ago and had to stay home alone for a week. I was so happy to see people after that week, I could have hugged them.

I am currently planning a mini vacation for myself. I am going to take an unheard of 4 days in a row off. My plan is to get shit done that I am putting off, go biking, and see a couple friends. whilst also spending quality introvert time alone with me and mah bunny.

 

[Thalassa]

I am a super introvert but when there is an actual crisis, I calm down, focus, and get shit done.

Now, when the "crisis" is all in my head.... Well, that's when I bog down in INFP land and don't do anything about anything.

And as hermity as I am.... I was sick a couple years ago and had to stay home alone for a week. I was so happy to see people after that week, I could have hugged them.

I am currently planning a mini vacation for myself. I am going to take an unheard of 4 days in a row off. My plan is to get shit done that I am putting off, go biking, and see a couple friends. whilst also spending quality introvert time alone with me and mah bunny.

Yes, what occurred to me is that NFP can actually act STJ under stress. That's why my question was regarding Se and Te, or if all extroverts do this.

I relate to "crisis in head" freezing up...but when something actually happens in the external environment I immediately move, want to take action, may even start telling others what to do. I can really suprise myself at how level-headed I can become if I am forced to be in the moment to handle something...because if I sit and just completely imagine "what could possibly go wrong" that's more likely to make me anxious, nervous, or paralyze me. It's so weird.

I don't relate to this "everything moving in slow motion" thing, though. I've always wondered about that, my whole life, like who does this happen to? Do they mean the feeling of non-reality you get when someone dies? What does that even mean? Maybe I don't experience it. Or is it just that when something tragic happens you become hyper-aware through adrenaline so notice every little detail?

 

[Xenon]

People who immediately react or take charge are extroverts? Or just types with more Se or Te?

Anyway, by that definition I'd be an extravert.

Yeah, she's saying if your most common stress response is to spring into some sort of action, you're more extraverted. Introverts tend to feel like freezing up more. She didn't write about different types of I's or E's, so I'm rather curious about what, say, an ISxP type would say about this.

In any case, that doesn't mean you can't learn to manage that first instinct and react in whatever way is more productive. But generally introverts will have a more difficult time pushing themselves into action, and extroverts will find it harder to refrain from acting impulsively.

 

[Anew Leaf]

My parents always loved telling this story about me... When I was 4 my parents bought a house and did the landscaping themselves. We had to go and pick up more river rocks at some rock place, and they brought me along. My dad was shoveling rock into the flatbed and my mom and I were in the cab. My dad forgot to set the parking break, and the truck started rolling. My ENFP mom panicked and I calmly reached over and yanked the lever, stopping the truck.

I definitely feel like I go into a different mode when there is a crisis. Emotions are gone and I see pretty clearly what needs to be done. I had a big day like that last year when I had to take charge, kick ass, and take names. It was a week before my mom died and the hospital wasn't helping us at all on some important things going on. I don't get a chance to exercise this skill a lot and I was so thankful to have it. My super INFP aunt does the deer in the headlights thing whenever there is a problem. I find it very irritating.

Maybe this means I am supposed to be more of an extravert but the weight of the world has crushed me like a grape!

 

[Thalassa]

Yeah, she's saying if your most common stress response is to spring into some sort of action, you're more extraverted. Introverts tend to feel like freezing up more. She didn't write about different types of I's or E's, so I'm rather curious about what, say, an ISxP type would say about this.

In any case, that doesn't mean you can't learn to manage that first instinct and react in whatever way is more productive. But generally introverts will have a more difficult time pushing themselves into action, and extroverts will find it harder to refrain from acting impulsively.

I'd say I have a more difficult time refraining from acting impulsively than freezing up. It's actually been a great benefit to me. One time, when I was about twenty years old, this dude tried to snatch my purse, but he was half drunk and I immediately just started yelling at him and beating him with said purse, so he wasn't able to take it. I also tend to move into action if things happen to other people, as well. I tend to be more level-headed when it's happening to someone else though, like I can just go in and handle it.

 

[Anew Leaf]

I'd say I have a more difficult time refraining from acting impulsively than freezing up. It's actually been a great benefit to me. One time, when I was about twenty years old, this dude tried to snatch my purse, but he was half drunk and I immediately just started yelling at him and beating him with said purse, so he wasn't able to take it. I also tend to move into action if things happen to other people, as well. I tend to be more level-headed when it's happening to someone else though, like I can just go in and handle it.

I think it is a lot easier to do that to help others than yourself .

 

[Thalassa]

I think it is a lot easier to do that to help others than yourself .

Yeah, I mean, I think sometimes being reactive or impulsive could be detrimental, and I'm more likely to be that way when it concerns glorious me, rather than a task that involves serving others.

My brash impulsiveness I would say can be one of my biggest flaws...but I didn't get my purse stolen, dammit.

I just think, though, if that happened in some place like NYC I might have gotten shot by the mugger though. This was just some drunk douche at a party I was at in NC.

 

[Anew Leaf]

Yeah, I mean, I think sometimes being reactive or impulsive could be detrimental, and I'm more likely to be that way when it concerns glorious me, rather than a task that involves serving others.

My brash impulsiveness I would say can be one of my biggest flaws...but I didn't get my purse stolen, dammit.

I just think, though, if that happened in some place like NYC I might have gotten shot by the mugger though. This was just some drunk douche at a party I was at in NC.

Very true! Gotta know your "audience." you probably scared him silly!

If someone is special to me then I get all mama bear for them. I was at a party a few months ago and my shy little INTP friend asked a girl to dance. She was very rude and vocal when she turned him down. I gave her quite the talking to and she finally left after attempting to verbally spar with me. If it had been myself I would have backed down, but not when it was my sweet friend! On guard! Rawr!

 

[Thalassa]

In fact, the more I think about it, the more I realize that method is extremely effective on Southern redneck douchebags. When I was in college some tweaker broke into my apartment when I was taking a nap and I starting yelling at him like I was possessed by the devil, he acted totally frightened, said something about being "the maintenance man" (he wasn't, he robbed two of my neighbors, luckily didn't take anything of mine) and claimed I scared him more than he scared me.

Of course he eventually was arrested. They found him hiding the closet of one of the other apartments.

I would presume though in larger cities that criminals might be more jaded and heavily armed.

*goes to purchase illegal sawed off shot gun*

 

[Lightyear]

haha, introvert/extravert test... would you rather be stuck in a mansion for a week with a big group of people, with no privacy (minus the bathroom of course), or alone in the house for a week, no social contact whatsoever allowed?

Sounds both like hell to me. Though I might better survive the no social contact option as long as I had enough books, movies, computer games and other things to entertain myself in the mansion.