"Feeling" & "Thinking"

[heart]

Here is my attempt:

F: need for "goodness"
T: need for honesty

I can see where one would say this, but this focuses too much on the positive qualities of both sides. Feelers are not always good and Thinkers are not always honest.

Some of the worst hurts I have recieved in life came from actions of Feelers and some of the most kindness came from Thinkers. To equate "good" with Feeling just doesn't sit well with me for that reason.

 

[Gabe]

I have a problem with the words "FEELING" and "THINKING" being used in the MBTI or other systems.

These words have the undertone that:
- someone with a FEELING (F) preference is all warm, fuzzy and emotional with NO intellect or logic.
- someone with a THINKING (T) preference is all about logic and no emotion or feelings, making them out to be cold, harsh, robotic etc.

SO I propose a change of wordings from:

"Feeling" to "Subjective Decision Making"
"Thinking" to "Objective Decision Making"

What say you??

Extraverted feeling is objective. (extraversion as objective. I prefer the jungian definition of objective it's actually a lot less subjective than the definition many people who preach 'objectiviness' would use)

 

[alcea rosea]

Did you raise a theory then second it? How funny. I do agree and those are some good connotations.

What do you mean? I didn't get it.

 

[alcea rosea]

Feeling and Thinking

The always ongoing discussion about MBTI F being feeling related and T being logical.

From the booklet Dynamics of Personality type (L.V.Barens)

"Judgement

Thinking as a cognitive process is not the same as thought, analysis or intelligence. Here, it specifically means coming to decisions using objective criteria. Likewise, the Feeling process is not about emotion or feeling but evaluating events and circumstances according to importance and values."

So
T = coming to decisions using objective criteria
F = evaluating events and circumstances according to importance and values

This means that people that use F functions more are not necessarily any more emotional than people who use T functions more. Thinking preference does not mean supreme intelligence or Feeling preference supreme emotions.

 

[Thursday]

Thank you

 

[Haphazard]

Thank you.

I'm a T and am quite emotional. However, this may have something to do with being a teenager.

The difference between a T and an F is that a T will divide the cake in half because that's what's fair and an F will cut unevenly because that's the nice thing to do.

 

[phoenix13]

Thank you thank you thank you! It is so easy to forget this, and so frustrating when people do.

 

[Spartacuss]

The always ongoing discussion about MBTI F being feeling related and T being logical.

This means that people that use F functions more are not necessarily any more emotional than people who use T functions more. Thinking preference does not mean supreme intelligence or Feeling preference supreme emotions.

They are not necessarily more emotional, but aren't they more subjective? I think this is where the idea of the touchy-feely sensitive Fs sneaks in. The values that the Feeler taps into leads the F to decide something not on an objective basis but according to how others would feel regardless of what is being done, objectively. Since it's not to do with logic, its emotional on our binary scale. All it means is that they have more of a pulse on shared values, which may be fluffy or murderous.

 

[phoenix13]

They are not necessarily more emotional, but aren't they more subjective? I think this is where the idea of the touchy-feely sensitive Fs sneaks in. The values that the Feeler taps into leads the F to decide something not on an objective basis but according to how others would feel regardless of what is being done, objectively. Since it's not to do with logic, its emotional on our binary scale. All it means is that they have more of a pulse on shared values, which may be fluffy or murderous.

I see what you mean, but it's not exactly as you say. It's not "emotion." We don't look at a math problem, feel warm and tingly, and decide, "math is good." We don't watch surgery, feel nauseous and say "surgery is bad." Nevertheless, it is a more subjective process. Note, however, that Fe is more in tune to how something effects other people and making decisions based off of that. Fi has its own value system that it makes decisions off of which is slightly less subjective. Of course, certain processes are most appropriate in certain situations. They're all needed and valid. [insert: pandas, confetti, candy, bunnies, smiley faces]

 

[Spartacuss]

I see what you mean, but it's not exactly as you say. It's not "emotion."... Nevertheless, it is a more subjective process.

Huh? That is what I said.

Note, however, that Fe is more in tune to how something effects other people and making decisions based off of that.

I said this, too.

Fi has its own value system that it makes decisions off of which is slightly less subjective. Of course, certain processes are most appropriate in certain situations.

Yep.

 

[phoenix13]

Huh? That is what I said.



I said this, too.


Yep.

Sorry, I was not diagreeing with you but clarifying some stuff; mainly about how not all feeling is so subjective (Fe vs. Fi), and that it isn't about fluffy emotions. Having gone back and read your post more carefully, however, I skimmed the explanation of "emotional on our binary scale," and now see that you weren't talking about happy/ sad/ angry emotions. I feel kind of lame for being such a skimmer. Oh, literacy...

 

[edcoaching]

They are not necessarily more emotional, but aren't they more subjective? I think this is where the idea of the touchy-feely sensitive Fs sneaks in. The values that the Feeler taps into leads the F to decide something not on an objective basis but according to how others would feel regardless of what is being done, objectively. Since it's not to do with logic, its emotional on our binary scale. All it means is that they have more of a pulse on shared values, which may be fluffy or murderous.

Subjectivity is a GOOD thing though--to make really, really good decisions one needs to consider the objective and subjective viewpoints. All too often businesses, which usually have a Thinking culture, make decisions without considering Feeling/subjective criteria such as:

• Do we have buy-in, as in, will those who have to do the work actually carry out our plans?
• Does this decision gel with our values? Think of how nurses, a profession with an archetype for Feeling, are overstressed now by not being able to effectively act on their value of caring for patients as individuals
• Who else should be included in the decision?
• Where do loyalties lay? Remember "New Coke"???
• Even if this appears cost-effective on paper, will the impact on morale, loyalty, service, etc. actually decrease its efficiencies? We saw this all the time with corporate downsizings

Thinking types have feelings; Feeling types can think. It isn't about emotions but about how we make decisions. One thing I use with parents is their first reaction when a child asks for an exception to a rule, as in, "Can I watch an extra half hour of TV today because I had 3 tests at school..." The T's usually are first inclined to stick to the rule but may reconsider for the sake of meeting the child's needs. The F's usually are first inclined to break the rule, stepping into the shoes of the child and feeling the exhaustion, but may reconsider for the sake of consistency.

It's where we go first in decisions that counts, because many Feeling types have been inundated with logical decision making structures that can fuzz up their true preference. And, many Thinking types are working on effective problem solving strategies, which usually take into account the views of all players...

edcoaching

 

[redacted]

T outputs either true or false
F outputs either good or bad

 

[Randomnity]

It is true that they aren't more emotional or less rational, by definition.

However, there is a strong general trend of Fs being more expressive of their emotions, and therefore seeming more emotional, in my experience. (Of course as with anything there are exceptions).

 

[redacted]

^agree. Fs are more emotional because they're more consciously tuned to value judgments.

 

[Orangey]

^agree. Fs are more emotional because they're more consciously tuned to value judgments.

How does being consciously tuned to value judgments make one more emotional and/or more expressive of emotions? I honestly want to know, because in theory the feeling function can be as cold and emotionally detached as the thinking function (at least that's what Jung says), it only just operates differently and with different criteria, as everyone here has been saying. So where is this connection between feeling as a decision-making process and "emotion" (or affect)?

 

[Randomnity]

How does being consciously tuned to value judgments make one more emotional and/or more expressive of emotions? I honestly want to know, because in theory the feeling function can be as cold and emotionally detached as the thinking function (at least that's what Jung says), it only just operates differently and with different criteria, as everyone here has been saying. So where is this connection between feeling as a decision-making process and "emotion" (or affect)?

In theory, sure. In practice, I bet you read the Fs in your life as being more emotional/less coldly rational than the Ts. I sure do, almost without exception...actually now that I'm thinking about it...completely without exception, as far as I can remember (and for the people whose types I'm reasonably sure of).

 

[Leysing]

Values have many emotions connected to them.

 

[edcoaching]

Values have many emotions connected to them.

Principles, a more "T" concept, also can have emotions attached. And, there are all kinds of emotions and manners including brusqueness and dismissiveness that affect how messages are received, not just happiness and tears.

Introversion and Extraversion have an awful lot to do with the amount of emotion displayed. As an introverted Intuitive with Extraverted Feeling, I can often hold my emotions just fine in public venues and wait until I'm with those I want to discuss the problems with before I vent. Occasionally colleagues who observe this wonder if I prefer Thinking. I don't but I've been in the world long enough to know when it's a good idea not to display emotion. I know Thinkers who haven't learned the same lesson and are likely to display emotions through the tenacity of their arguments if nothing else.

And, ISTPs and INTPs are usually seen as the most objective of the types, as if they stand back and observe everything that is going on in a detached way. They can come across as less emotional than the other 14 types...

edcoaching

 

[redacted]

How does being consciously tuned to value judgments make one more emotional and/or more expressive of emotions? I honestly want to know, because in theory the feeling function can be as cold and emotionally detached as the thinking function (at least that's what Jung says), it only just operates differently and with different criteria, as everyone here has been saying. So where is this connection between feeling as a decision-making process and "emotion" (or affect)?

if you're consciously thinking about something being 'bad', you'll be much more likely to have an emotional reaction than if you think of something as 'false'.

example: when i solve a hard computer science problem, i figure out a few lines of code that hold 'true' to what my assignment was. but i don't react emotionally until i decide that it's 'good' that i solved the problem.

bleh, it's impossible to completely separate thinking and feeling anyway.