about Si

[Santosha]

I wonder if its perhaps a language or cultural barrier? I've noticed in the past that you've *seemed* to be a bit harsh with my posts, until I get clarification from you. Just saying. I also think that you, INTP, are very concise in your words, clear in your meaning.. so I see how others that talk around an idea using subtle connections may frusterate you. Asking for clarification is alot nicer than giving an impression that someone has no idea what their talking about, right?

 

[Eric B]

Interesting take on Si. I also remember reading (I think from Jung) that many visual artists are dominant Si types.

Well, coming from classic Galen temperament, the Melancholy is always said to be the "artistic" one. And the purest Melancholy is the ISTJ.
This made it completely confusing when I first encountered the Keirsey system, and "the Artisan" was said to be the [totally opposite] Sanguine!
I guess, it's since "artisan" means "crafter" (not necessarily what we think of as a "fine artist"), and this was to convey their skill with the physical senses. Like ESFP's being good dancers (which would be compatible with the classic theory's profiles of Sanguines). The type of "artists" that theory is talking about are the more contemplative arts, such as picture painting and music. These are probably common to the ISTP, who is both Melancholy and Sanguine (IST+SP).

The ISTJ (such as my father, who was a graphic artist on the side when I was young), also seems to be into that, and is probably good at images done from memory. He did not have to set up an object and copy it to the drawing board; he just drew images of people (including himself) or whatever else that came to mind.

It seems in type theory, the ISFP is the one associated with drawing and such, and this is supposed to be the product of Fi+Se. But the ISTJ has Fi in the tertiary (child-like "relief") position, and coupled with the dominant Si, this makes them extremely good artists. This I have not seen covered in type theory, however.

 

[KDude]

But the ISTJ has Fi in the tertiary (child-like "relief") position, and coupled with the dominant Si, this makes them extremely good artists. This I have not seen covered in type theory, however.

This was what I was going to lead into.

You see it in Socionics. Aushra Augusta developed it without knowing about Myers, and never made a J/P dichotomy.. She tried to systematize directly from Jung's types. Whether Myers is wrong or right, you be the judge. I thought she was on to something.

In any case.. In Socionics, these artistic types are Si dominant. SEI and SLI. ISFp and ISTp. Here's a short description of the ISTp-Si subtype:

Sensory subtype (The Designer)

Aesthete, disposed to obtaining pleasant sensations. Is considerably more gregarious than the initial subtype. More optimistic, but less operational. Sybaritic epicure. Gravitates towards the humanitarian disciplines - skill, linguistics, history. Dresses with taste, chooses clothes that emphasize their good looks, selects clothes according to colour.

The sensory subtype is modest and non-demonstrative, constrained and polite, obstinate and uncompromising in regards to upholding their interests. Give concrete, logical reasons, rather than far-fetched ones, when explaining themselves. From time to time become thoughtful and isolate themselves from friends in order to plunge into their problems. Restrained in dialogue, they are laconic but at times try forcing a smile if they feel that there is intensity in the conversation. Dress with taste, like original, but modest, items of quality; watch over their health and figure: an aesthete. Enjoy manual labor, they are careful, laborious, patient and persistent; if in business will tirelessly improve production – material or intellectual – though sometimes they require a change of employment. Gestures tend to be graceful and lazy, smooth and thus confident in exact movements. Gait appears a little bit weakened and elastic; do not like feeling rushed but, at the same time, are not sluggish; may seem a little bit haughty.

Here's the Te subtype, who sounds more like an MBTI ISTJ:

Logical subtype (The Rationalizer)

Outwardly businesslike, a little severe, cold and unapproachable. A realist and skeptic, distrustful of novelty [..] Will always avoid useless matters, due to pragmatic nature. Very dynamic and technologically effective, Can extract the maximum of benefit even from tools. Their production is always foremost and will stand up to any competition on the market. Clothing is restrained, conservative, and they prefer a sporty, technological style.

The logical subtype prefers to maintain a distance. Are very independent and proud; act for their own convenience. In conversation may become ironic but can also become affable and interested if shown sympathy/respect from the interlocutor. When they become aware of having had offended someone they show regret, soften themselves and apologize calmly. Behind their external inaccessibility lies vulnerability; are impatient and mobile, love constant changes and new impression, are active, efficient and careful. Disdain discomfort in all situations and are therefore prone to correct/repair/adapt everything for the sake of convenience. Reliable and punctual, are exacting towards themselves and others; they behave with cold advantage but still may become emotional. Their behaviour is unpredictable and characterized by unexpected transitions from cold contemplation to active action. Gestures are impulsive, resolute. Gait: fast, measured.