To my fellow P's...

[INTPness]

Short version: Why do you tell people you will do something and then never do it?

Longer version:

To my P brethren,

I have a major gripe with you (errr, with us, that is). I have been a staunch defender of Pness :steam: on this site - I definitely see the benefits of it and no J is going to tell me that it has no value. A common conception is that P is "worthless", but it has it's benefits for sure - namely, creativity, the ability to improvise on the spot, good problem solving, thinking outside the proverbial box, etc. On the other hand, we deal with things like procrastination, not wanting to make "final decisions" (committing to one thing), and sometimes being downright flaky and unreliable. It's been my experience that with age and experience, we get much, much better in these areas if we choose to.

But, on to the gripe. Let's say you have a "P" co-worker (like an "IT" guy or something similar to that) who is constantly saying stuff like, "OK, yeah, I'll be there in 10 minutes to help you out." And then 2 days goes by and you've heard nothing from them again. Or, "I'll bring the piece of equipment to your office in about an hour." And then the whole week goes by and you never heard from them.

So, the next week rolls around and you still need their help. So, you put on your "nice face" and you go to their office and they go, "Oh hey, what's up?!" And you say something butt-kissy ridiculous like, "Oh yeah, everything's groovy. Just lovin' life. How about you? How you feelin'? You need help moving this weekend or need your lawn mowed, just let me know. I love working on Sundays." And then they're like, "Yeah, so what can I do for you?" And you're like, "Remember about 6 days ago when you said you'd come by and fix X?" And then the P co-worker says, "Oh yeah, yeah, sorry about that. Let me finish up what I'm doing here and grab a cup of coffee - you know, Monday morning and all hahahaha - and I'll be there in about 30 minutes.

So, you're thinking "OK, cool. Finally got this squared away. Don't have to think about it anymore." And then another day comes and goes and you realize that knucklehead never followed through. And this literally continues and continues and continues with various items.

What is the best way to deal with this person? I could tell the boss and the stuff would get done in short order, but (a) I'm not a rat, (b) the boss is too busy to deal with that stuff, and (c) I don't want to burn bridges with "P" guy.

How in the WORLD do you deal with a person like this? And why do they do it? Is it complete and total laziness? Complete lack of organization/planning? I mean, there are some people that the P is just WAY out of control. What to do?

 

[entropie]

If you consider all things and think about everything possible in the end you'll find out it's your Pness that is too big (this sentence was genius ).

The solution is easy, you have a different work attitutde and if you need your colleague to change you have to tell him. Instead you are being nice and playing along with his shit, he will never change. You should go to him and have another talk with him. Ask him why he is always letting you down and how he thinks your future working together could work that way. Play some hard cards make him a bad conciencse and say you dont get your work finished when he lets you down. Then be soft and ask him if he has problems in his personal life which kleep him occupied, try to get him to tell you a reason tho their probably isnt one.

I had the same situation with a colleague and since I am no rat aswell it ended that I am doing the work for the colleague now aswell, because he's just too slow and unreliable. It sometimes just sucks like that. You'll tho definitly need to confront that guy and sort things out between you. Either for the good or for the bad, otherwise his unreliability will kill you.

 

[INTPness]

Well, I'm new, so I'm walking carefully. But, I played a "hard card" once to see what would happen. I said "Hey, you never helped me with X last week!" And he said, "Yeah, I'll do it whenever I get around to it." I said, "Is that your way of telling me to get off your back? I can take that statement 2 different ways....." *he stands up, walks to my office and completes the task immediately*. But, it's not in my nature to have ongoing conflict or to talk this way to him on a continuing basis. So, I go back to being nice to him and the procrastinating starts again. I guess I just have to talk to the guy and tell it like it is. It's not working, something needs to change, my friend.

Not to be a complainer, but this, folks, is why INTP's prefer to work alone. Every single person that you come into contact with presents some sort of problem/obstacle/issue/etc. It's sometimes as if you have to perform so much maintenance just to keep the relationship/friendship in "working order". Why do I have to be a circus performer (walk on a high-wire, wrestle with tigers and elephants, and let monkeys throw poop at me) just for you to bring a piece of equipment to my office in a timely manner?

 

[INTPness]

If you consider all things and think about everything possible in the end you'll find out it's your Pness that is too big

*looks in pants* Yes, in all likelihood this is a true statement.

(this sentence was genius ).

The comeback was even better than your original statement.

Haha - entropie, you have one of the best senses of humor on this site, IMO.

 

[entropie]

I can understand your feeling completly. I thought of this as an important life lesson to be learnt. We have a totally incompetent guy in our office, he's not only dumb but a smart-alec aswell. He recently gets into troubles with people cause he alwaqys wants to do things another way than he has been told; he is straining and getting on your nerves. He writes press texts a very important task, but since he's there we havent published a thing in a while. People even go to different departments to ask other press guys to write texts cause nobody likes that guy.

I am playing nice with him, I take his shit I even go with him on lunch breaks and am probably the only one. It's very hard to stand him, he can be such a smart-alec you want to hit his face in an instant, but well it's a challenge.

What you say with intps want to work alone, I can understand your anger but you know working alone will never be the key. What first of all goes down the river when working alone is versatility and new insights, new approaches to situations. Plus of course you cant run a big operation alone. My girlfriend an infp gave me a different onlook onto the situatzion regarding complcated colleagues: she just said, see it as an opportunity for you to grow. And I think these small words hold more depth than we NT guys are ever able to imagine

P.S.: hehe thx regarding the humor compliment

 

[xisnotx]

Figure out what his external judgement function is. Act appropriately.

Fe- Hey...the fact that you are constantly blowing me off is making me angry.
Te- Hey...the fact that you are constantly blowing me off is making me less productive.

If anyone told me that I was annoying them in some way, especially if I didn't know I was annoying them, I would go to great lengths to try to make it right. I imagine it's the same for inferior Te users.

 

[funkadelik]

If anyone told me that I was annoying them in some way, especially if I didn't know I was annoying them, I would go to great lengths to try to make it right. I imagine it's the same for inferior Te users.

Same here. I'm of the opinion that it's my tert Fe that Js me up a bit. I'll be a lazy bum when it's just me, but if I know my not doing the dishes is gonna make my roommate mad, then I'll do the dishes.

As for the OPs problem, just confront him about it. Be straightforward. Just cause he's a P doesn't give him an excuse to blow you off. You and I both don't get that privilege. Just cause it doesn't come naturally doesn't mean we're incapable of being organized. He needs to learn that and better now than later.

At the very least, if you talk to him, he probably won't blow you off again. He'll either fear you or respect you for speaking up. You win either way!

 

[skylights]

Figure out what his external judgement function is. Act appropriately.

Fe- Hey...the fact that you are constantly blowing me off is making me angry.
Te- Hey...the fact that you are constantly blowing me off is making me less productive.

If anyone told me that I was annoying them in some way, especially if I didn't know I was annoying them, I would go to great lengths to try to make it right. I imagine it's the same for inferior Te users.

aim for sensitive functions and fire. given Fi dom/aux, aiming for Fi might actually work better...

Fi: hey the fact that you are constantly blowing me off is making me feel like i really don't mean anything at this workplace, and that you really don't care about me as a person .

 

[INTPness]

He's ESTP. And yeah, it looks like I'll have to talk to him and see if we can fix the problem while still staying on good terms - although at this point, staying on good terms is secondary.

 

[Santosha]

Short version: Why do you tell people you will do something and then never do it?

Longer version:

To my P brethren,

I have a major gripe with you (errr, with us, that is). I have been a staunch defender of Pness :steam: on this site - I definitely see the benefits of it and no J is going to tell me that it has no value. A common conception is that P is "worthless", but it has it's benefits for sure - namely, creativity, the ability to improvise on the spot, good problem solving, thinking outside the proverbial box, etc. On the other hand, we deal with things like procrastination, not wanting to make "final decisions" (committing to one thing), and sometimes being downright flaky and unreliable. It's been my experience that with age and experience, we get much, much better in these areas if we choose to.

But, on to the gripe. Let's say you have a "P" co-worker (like an "IT" guy or something similar to that) who is constantly saying stuff like, "OK, yeah, I'll be there in 10 minutes to help you out." And then 2 days goes by and you've heard nothing from them again. Or, "I'll bring the piece of equipment to your office in about an hour." And then the whole week goes by and you never heard from them.

So, the next week rolls around and you still need their help. So, you put on your "nice face" and you go to their office and they go, "Oh hey, what's up?!" And you say something butt-kissy ridiculous like, "Oh yeah, everything's groovy. Just lovin' life. How about you? How you feelin'? You need help moving this weekend or need your lawn mowed, just let me know. I love working on Sundays." And then they're like, "Yeah, so what can I do for you?" And you're like, "Remember about 6 days ago when you said you'd come by and fix X?" And then the P co-worker says, "Oh yeah, yeah, sorry about that. Let me finish up what I'm doing here and grab a cup of coffee - you know, Monday morning and all hahahaha - and I'll be there in about 30 minutes.

So, you're thinking "OK, cool. Finally got this squared away. Don't have to think about it anymore." And then another day comes and goes and you realize that knucklehead never followed through. And this literally continues and continues and continues with various items.

What is the best way to deal with this person? I could tell the boss and the stuff would get done in short order, but (a) I'm not a rat, (b) the boss is too busy to deal with that stuff, and (c) I don't want to burn bridges with "P" guy.

How in the WORLD do you deal with a person like this? And why do they do it? Is it complete and total laziness? Complete lack of organization/planning? I mean, there are some people that the P is just WAY out of control. What to do?

I don't. Not at work anyway. I might drag ass at some things, but definately not things that my work is riding me about. Have you seen the economy right now? Your talking livlihood. And to be honest, I've worked with ALOT of IT guys for quite a few companies.. and I've been pushed off once or twice, but not continuously, and NOT after I've gone over to IT guys desk and verbalized the problem and that I'm waiting (tap tap tap my foot). My P preference is really high too. I agree with you, I don't like to be a rat EVER if I can avoid it. But I don't see taking it a bit higher or making a comment about it as a rat, if its efen up your work. If IT guy continues to push you off, and it causes you in some way to NOT perform the duties you need to, then it needs to be addressed. Chances are its not ONLY you being forgotten. Ofcourse I would try to make it really clear to IT guy the next time I see him.. that by not fixing said problem your work is affected and if someone comes down on you about it your going to have to explain that IT guy is blowen you off, and that you "don't want anyone to get into trouble." If that doesn't yank his chain a bit, I say throw him under the bus. =)

 

[BAJ]

Well, I originally tested about 97% Perceiving.

This guy sounds amazing. There's a bunch of different strategies you could employ to accomplish the result. (1.) you can appeal to his ego, or use flattery. You are the most genius "Problem X" fixer I've ever heard of and I just know you are the best. (2.) You can simply be annoying. Just, annoy him, by being in his presence and disturbing his train of thoughts as much as possible. Eventually, it will dawn that he needs to fix problem X or he will never have any peace (3.) Ask him, "Why?", or worse, ask his supervisor, "Why?" (4.) Send whatever he is attracted to over to get him to do it. He likes green eyes? Send a girl with green eyes. (5.) Be his bud, and find out what he's interested in. Does he have a movie poster or artifact? If so, can you ask or be interested? (6.) Get him to talk about his problems (7.) Flirt with him yourself (8.) Hold his stapler and leave a ransom note (9.) Find out his task list emails, and hack the accounts. Move your job up.

 

[INTPness]

Well, I originally tested about 97% Perceiving.

This guy sounds amazing. There's a bunch of different strategies you could employ to accomplish the result. (1.) you can appeal to his ego, or use flattery. You are the most genius "Problem X" fixer I've ever heard of and I just know you are the best. (2.) You can simply be annoying. Just, annoy him, by being in his presence and disturbing his train of thoughts as much as possible. Eventually, it will dawn that he needs to fix problem X or he will never have any peace (3.) Ask him, "Why?", or worse, ask his supervisor, "Why?" (4.) Send whatever he is attracted to over to get him to do it. He likes green eyes? Send a girl with green eyes. (5.) Be his bud, and find out what he's interested in. Does he have a movie poster or artifact? If so, can you ask or be interested? (6.) Get him to talk about his problems (7.) Flirt with him yourself (8.) Hold his stapler and leave a ransom note (9.) Find out his task list emails, and hack the accounts. Move your job up.

------------------------------------------------>>>>>>>>

Why do I have to be a circus performer (walk on a high-wire, wrestle with tigers and elephants, and let monkeys throw poop at me) just for you to bring a piece of equipment to my office in a timely manner?

Just freakin' do your job without any nudging from me.

 

[Tamske]

It's easier to promise than to do. At the moment of the promise, I'm totally convinced I'll do it. But the problem is that I tend to overestimate my abilities, especially my productivity. For some reason, I'm convinced that at any moment I'm awake, I should actually be working/creating/... towards both my and other people's goals. I'm frustrated if it turns out I have to sit down and do nothing for a while.
If you remind me of my promise, I'll feel terribly guilty.

I TRY the hardest I can to keep my promises. I believe (and sincerely hope) I'm not as bad as your IT guy. If there's something to fix right away, I'll fix it right away.

 

[BAJ]

It's easier to promise than to do. At the moment of the promise, I'm totally convinced I'll do it. But the problem is that I tend to overestimate my abilities, especially my productivity. For some reason, I'm convinced that at any moment I'm awake, I should actually be working/creating/... towards both my and other people's goals. I'm frustrated if it turns out I have to sit down and do nothing for a while.
If you remind me of my promise, I'll feel terribly guilty.

I TRY the hardest I can to keep my promises. I believe (and sincerely hope) I'm not as bad as your IT guy. If there's something to fix right away, I'll fix it right away.

Oh this is good. I'm heroic, and do amazing things, but I scarcely ever do the full extent. I imagine two days work for one day's time. I have an ISTJ co-worker, and he helps me to consider whether I am being reasonable. I have ideas, and then he helps explain if they are practical or not.

Just freakin' do your job without any nudging from me

Ha. I was just making suggestions. I don't work in IT. I could bring you a fish? We could ship a fish overnight anywhere.

We have a rough schedule here!

If I were in your shoes, I would have my equipment. If it's just a matter of getting equipment, then just go get it. It involves fixing something you don't know how to fix, then I could get him going. I'm not sure how.

I had a friend who worked in IT. He had a list of "jobs" on his computer. Things he needed to get done. It was quite a list. I was just a visitor, but I "helped". I mean, we did about three of those jobs, when he wasn't giving me a tour, giving me equipment, fixing my computer, or transferring Dave Chapel videos onto my own computer. Actually, he fixed my hard drive. Yet, I helped him in ways too. I listened to him, and gave him feedback.

Sigh.

If I were there, I could maybe help.

 

[INTPness]

Ha. I was just making suggestions. I don't work in IT. I could bring you a fish? We could ship a fish overnight anywhere.

Haha...a fish might just do the trick. Yeah, I wasn't yelling at you. When I said, "do your freakin' job", I was talking to my IT guy, but I said it to you to show the frustration.

I'm a P myself, so I understand the whole getting sidetracked, becoming interested in another project and forgetting what you were supposed to be doing, etc. But, this is just insane. He told me last Tuesday morning that he would be right with me in about 10 minutes. Later on that day, I reminded him. He said, "I'll take care of you first thing in the morning." Wednesday morning I waited until like 10:30am...gave him plenty of time to drink a whole pot of coffee, go to the bathroom a few times, fart around on e-mail, etc. Then reminded him and he said, "Oh yeah, OK, I have to go to another building right now, but I'll be back this afternoon." Wednesday came and went. Never saw the guy again. Thursday morning his office is dark. Come to find out, he had taken Thursday and Friday off of work. Haha. I mean, COME ON!!!

If I were there, I could maybe help.

Thanks. I'll get it squared away next week. I'm past my tipping point. Time to let Ti rear it's head.

 

[miss fortune]

well, I fully INTENDED to do it when I said that I would... I just tend to forget

 

[Snuggletron]

Tell him to stop being an asshole.

 

[NotOfTwo]

My friend says I am missing a chip in my brain. The one that tells you what you can realistically accomplish in any give period of time. If anything, I am over ambitious about what I can get done. It's just not humanly possible to actually be able to do all of it. She thinks I will not be able to change, "You either have the chip or you don't". But I am trying anyway. Seems like the harder I try to remember things the less I am able to. It is not that I don't care. I experience a great deal of stress from it. If your co-worker is good in other ways, I would recommend visual reminders taped to his monitor. If not competent, I would not tolerate him either.

 

[INTPness]

My friend says I am missing a chip in my brain. The one that tells you what you can realistically accomplish in any give period of time. If anything, I am over ambitious about what I can get done. It's just not humanly possible to actually be able to do all of it. She thinks I will not be able to change, "You either have the chip or you don't". But I am trying anyway. Seems like the harder I try to remember things the less I am able to. It is not that I don't care. I experience a great deal of stress from it. If your co-worker is good in other ways, I would recommend visual reminders taped to his monitor. If not competent, I would not tolerate him either.

A little off topic, but in response to your post, I heard something the other day saying basically: We overestimate what we can realistically accomplish in 1 day, but we underestimate what we can accomplish in 1 year.

Each day is a series of baby steps. But, a LOT can be accomplished in 1 year if we keep taking those baby steps daily. I sometimes will go a whole month without taking any of the baby steps (on a given goal, or project), and then that begins to cut into how much I could accomplish in 1 year, because I've let so much time go without taking baby steps.

 

[skylights]

i'm missing that chip too.

anyway, have you considered just frankly, openly telling him how difficult he's making your life? i dunno if that's a good idea with an ESTP, but it might just be kind of like, oh man, i had no idea. and then he'd try harder.

as a last resort, i've never found someone not quickly respond to annoying the shit out of them. it's not great to have to sacrifice your time just for the sake of conditioning someone, and it's really not particularly nice, but once you get the pattern established, it should be relatively permanent. do it for a good two weeks and it'll get fairly hardwired into his brain that you WILL bother him relentlessly if he doesn't do what he said he'd do for you. and it's not like he could complain to higher ups, because he's promising and not delivering. not your problem he's effing up and you need to check up on him every half an hour. and then if he happens to slack at any point in the future, bug him again.