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  1. #11
    Member amazingdatagirl's Avatar
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    Aug 2010


    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    If it's big enough where the ego feels totally threatened, then the Demonic personality Complex will constellate
    This sounds really scary

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    For a long time, I was led to believe that all of the latter might be an NFP's normal Fi "use", and many others seem to think or struggle with that. It was hard to tell one "use" in one type from another, given the functions are basically defined in terms of behaviors. But for the NFP, Fi will be more conscious, tying into a heroic or parental complex, where they valiantly try to solve problems or help others. Total different "use" of it than mine; including the "good" use, which is still connected with something very negative, even if a past experience.
    Demon Fi prompts the INTP to circle the wagons in a desperate attempt to stave off barbaric threats to the ego. Heroic Fi is the wise scout (Hawkeye, of course) who sneaks over to the Indian camp to negotiate a truce.

    My octo-Fi tends to be self-serving and reactionary. "High ideals" are little more than a thin band aid to cover a wounded Ti.

  2. #12
    Senior Member Robopop's Avatar
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    Mar 2010
    5w4 sp/sx


    This article makes me feel happy happy joy joy, I think anyone who is new(or confused) to cognitive function theory should read this article. The only bad thing about it is that I wish I'd written something on this before Eric B did.

    To me the cognitive functions are more about the motivations behind "why" people do the things they do.
    Reserved Calm Unstructured Egocentric Inquisitive Clown

    Johari Nohari

  3. #13
    Join Date
    May 2009
    6w7 sx
    SEE Fi


    Yes, when I took the official MBTI this morning there were explanations how Feelers and Thinkers can be equally emotional or passionate about what they have put a lot of personal investment into.

    Feeling =/= Emotional

    Thinking =/= Always Dispassionate

    You're basically explaining here in a more in depth fashion how people of all the different types would become emotional or passionate in regards to their chosen functions, right?

    I really enjoy your posts. You're very well informed.

  4. #14
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Mar 2008
    548 sp/sx



    Yes, I too was greatly confused by the whole "emotions=F; T=calm and detached" [particularly NT's] thing, which was even a wide assumption you would see here a few years ago, and it's obvious that there was something wrong with that. All humans have emotions.
    So the best difference between them is "personal" (or I call it "humane") vs "technical", and the humane is more likely to recognize, accept and own emotions, where T's might try to suppress them, so that is why F became associated with them.

    Lenore Thomson is the one who really helped me out with this stuff. When I first saw her interpretations of the theory, they were just one more set among all the others, and it was a matter of weighing which were the best. But I find this really helps outline how the functions work, and especially, the ones supposedly "unused" by a type.

    Here's an example of the "sense of meaning" concept I forgot:

    The "meaning" the type models have for me (as a TP) is a symmetrical categorization system that makes people's behavior make more sense, and for the FP, it will be seen more as a self-improvement tool, and for the FJ, it's good for people to learn to get along better (or for my wife, a counseling tool), and for the TJ, it's a good "team-building" tool for the company.
    But of course, I could see those other three meanings as well, and even use them to convince others of the value of the system, (even though my purpose for popularizing it is that it is a symmetry I like that is useful).

    This would have been good to know about four years ago when I had just entered the type community on Yahoo, and saw a bunch of FP's discussing all of this stuff (with a so-called "expert", who broke it all down, but sort of leaned towards the "F=emotions/NT's are 'Spock'" view, which was where I got it from in the first place), but I couldn't understand why when I began tossing around the concepts I was familiar with (Galen temperament based systems) and integrating the new stuff I was learning, they thought I was being too "impersonal". To them, it is about the humane ("personal") goal of self-growth, and they'll listen to the expert explain things to them so they can learn it for that purpose, but breaking the the technical aspects of the theory (such as comparing matrices and factors) for their own sake totally put them off.
    So the product of Ti (logical frameworks, technicalities) could come into play in their interest, but only as much as it served Fi or Ne[+Fi].
    This made the theories all the more fascinating!

    I should also reiterate from this viewpoint, that undifferentiated functions are not "gears" we shift from one to the other. I don't say "OK, I'm analyzing a symmetry here, so I must 'use' Ti, and now, I should place a personal value in it, so I must 'use' Fi, and I need to see the symmetrical object in the first place, so I have to 'use' Se, and I want to organize something I'm building that way, so I have to 'use' Te". Ti is the main perspective, and those acts associated with the other functions are called functional "products", but those functions themselves are not really differentiated as such like Ti is.

    This is what clears up the problem I always saw in speaking of "using" all the other functions. We use their products as they fit our ego's goals, or tie into our emotional reactions.
    The closest they come to a quasi-'differentiated' state is when they align with the archetypal complexes, and (beyond the parent/aux, child/tert. and inferior) that is temporary, and usually reactionary. So as I've said before, we don't have to speculate ourselves as being in "oppositional", "witch", "trickster" or "demon" mode when "using" the shadow functions. (And even Beebe acknowledges this).
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
    Ti 54.3 | Ne 47.3 | Si 37.8 | Fe 17.7 | Te 22.5 | Ni 13.4 | Se 18.9 | Fi 27.9

    Temperament (APS) from scratch -- MBTI Type from scratch
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