Do you identify more with your MBTI type or your Enneagram type?

[Josephized_Joe]

MTBI seems to me to be a method devised to predict people's preferences for the purposes of career counseling.
I don't understand the purpose of the enneagram.
Could someone recommend a good book on enneagram ? What advantages are there to knowing about your enneagram versus MTBI ?

 

[rav3n]

My perception of the two is that MBTI is more p-ish, informative without conclusion of who you might be which lends to further discussion and Enneagram is more J-ish hence more directive and conclusive, where it tells you not only who you are but what you should aspire to within a Fe-based society.

 

[MacGuffin]

It seems the Enneagram is more about how one feels, while the MBTI is about how one thinks. I would not be surprised if F types preferred the Enneagram and T types the MBTI.

I've had similar thoughts myself.

 

[Jaguar]

Would you say that either one has more/better free resources available on the internet? That could be a catalyst for discussion... of course, lack of resources elsewhere could potentially lead to more discussion here, as well, but I'm not sure which effect would be stronger...

You're not far off the mark, Z. The difference between what is available online and what is in books can vary greatly. People are having discussions based on different information sources which frequently conflict and contradict. How can people possibly come to any form of mutual understanding? I have several books on the enneagram that go much deeper into type than what is online. So much so, people might kick the type right out of their profile after reading the books.

As far as conflicting sources of information for MBTI type, imagine an online source using Lenore Thomson's name in its title (The Lenore Thomson Exegesis Wiki) posting information which completely contradicts Lenore's comments in her book.

Excerpt from wiki:

For example, Jack Groverland, presumably ENTJ, preaches to "be still" and "tune in to what the greater intelligence of the universe wants you to do." A great many ENTJs seem to preach primarily that reasoning and intellect have limits, and it's critical to learn to perceive in a direct way, not limiting yourself to what you can prove "logically", but tuning in to the totality of everything through a sort of direct perception. A favorite preaching of ENFJs and ENTJs is that you are "responsible" for creating your reality by the kind of attitude that you choose: the world isn't doing things to you, you are self-selecting for certain kinds of things to happen to you by the way that you assign meaning to things and lead yourself to perceive one way and not another. This all sounds very much like articulate descriptions of introverted intuition--straight from the horse's mouth, just it's these horses' secondary function.

http://greenlightwiki.com/lenore-exegesis/Attitudes_from_the_Horse's_Mouth?version=8

Clearly, Ni is not something that is ignored or undervalued in that excerpt.
If anything, the excerpt suggests Ni is valued more than Te - hence the title of the article: Preaching the Secondary.


Now, contrast that excerpt from the online wiki with this comment from Lenore Thomson, in her book:

ENTJ's are more likely to deny introverted intuition in themselves.

The first information source paints a picture of, if anything, putting more emphasis on Ni than Te. But in Lenore's book, she basically claims an ENTJ would deny Ni's very existence. Talk about conflicting and contradicting information!

It was Lenore's book which was at the heart of nearly every argument I had with a certain ex-member. This is why having discussions can, at times, border on the absurd. We have no way of knowing what source(s) people are using to spark their comments. If people are operating using sources which conflict and contradict, discussions will then have the potential to emulate that same conflict.

 

[Z Buck McFate]

I can't find the source of this, but I'm sure I've heard it said that mbti is about the conscious- whereas the enneagram is more about the unconscious. If that's true, it'd make sense that there's less discussion about it. The unconscious is harder to tap into and discuss. At any rate, I definitely see the enneagram as touching more subjective nerves than mbti.

 

[Magic Poriferan]

Would you say that either one has more/better free resources available on the internet? That could be a catalyst for discussion... of course, lack of resources elsewhere could potentially lead to more discussion here, as well, but I doubt that effect would be stronger...

Also, perhaps there is something about the MBTI system itself that leads to more discussion? The enneagram system does seem to be a little bit simpler, if you ask me... (I might be wrong, though, since I am more familiar with MBTI.)

I'm not sure about a disparity in resources.

I don't know if it's really accurate to say the Enneagram is simpler than the MBTI (though I think it does have more of a veneer than the MBTI, and one that makes it appear simpler than it is). I do think it is more complicated to talk about what the MBTI focuses on, because it is more abstract, harder to observe, and requires more of a sort of logical percision than most are used to needing. I think it's very easy for people to relate to what the Enneagram is about (even if they don't relate any of the types to themselves).

EDIT: New entirely different proposal: While there are differing ideas about the Enneagram, the differing schools, if you will, are not nearly as different from each other as the different ideas regarding the MBTI. I find so much of what is said about the MBTI on this forum seems to be a strange and dysfunctional hybrid of the cognitive model and the temperamental model. This should make the MBTI very confusing for a lot of people, more confusing than the Enneagram, and therefore harder to relate to.

 

[Tish211]

I think I identify more with my MBTI type which is INTP . I seem to come out as either a type 9 or a type 5 . Still not quite sure which I am. But I prefer the MBTI theres more types which you can identify with.

 

[Josephized_Joe]

I think I identify more with my MBTI type which is INTP . I seem to come out as either a type 9 or a type 5 . Still not quite sure which I am. But I prefer the MBTI theres more types which you can identify with.

I think that's interesting, Tish211.

I too am INFP and my enneagram results indicate type 5 with 9 a close second. So there's definitely a consistency there.

I wasn't in tune with the enneagram so I have recently taken the test, read about the types and watch youtube videos of people who are my type.
People in the videos make statements I would find myself Making all the time. its funny, I consider myself a warm, caring person, but as I watch my type in video, I see an aloof coldness to the personality and it helps understand why people do not take me as a warm person. Its all inside.

 

[Josephized_Joe]

Enneagram experts say/write that we are born with our personality prewired, yet they indicate that my type is often found in persons who have had to deal with an unsafe environment at home. Am I missing something or are the two ideas contradictory?

 

[Magic Poriferan]

Enneagram experts say/write that we are born with our personality prewired, yet they indicate that my type is often found in persons who have had to deal with an unsafe environment at home. Am I missing something or are the two ideas contradictory?

They are contradictory, but I've never seen one Enneagram analyst propose both type from birth and type by upbringing.

 

[skylights]

It seems the Enneagram is more about how one feels, while the MBTI is about how one thinks. I would not be surprised if F types preferred the Enneagram and T types the MBTI.

this is a good point, and i would not be surprised if that correlation existed either... on the other hand...

i think that one of the reasons i shy away from the enneagram is that i tend to cycle through all those "feeling sets" over at least a few days, if not a much lesser timespan, and as such the enneagram seems strangely restricting to me. i suppose this sentiment in itself should lean me towards 9 or 7 - and towards choosing the type i feel like the most often - but i do not meld with any of the type descriptions well enough to feel secure about identifying myself in that way. the issue of quantity and quality also arises in my head - perhaps i feel like a 7 most often, but what if my deepest issues are really not 7ish? whereas with the MBTI, i feel that we are given more room for variability in feelings and behavior, but type portrays recurrent patterns of cognition.

of course, for those who match up well with the extant enneagram typings - and/or for those who tend to stay in a steady mode of Feeling- the enneagram may hold far more answers for the very same reason.

 

[JFrombaugh]

I think I definitely identify more with my enneagram type (4w5). I often come across very much like an INTP to other people on the outside...but in truth I'm very emotional inwardly, and I know can be pretty self-centered & opinionated!

 

[Josephized_Joe]

I've taken enneagram tests about six times and have gotten various results. I think the questions are too difficult to interpret in most cases. I may know I'm more towards one extreme than the other but to what degree I have no idea. Most recently I've been classified 4w5 which sounds more like INFP in description.

I've scored type 5 twice and type nine twice and now I'm coming up type 4. I consistently score as INFP on all the MTBI tests I've taken and I completely relate to the descriptions of INFP.

 

[lunalum]

I'm surprised at the amount who identify with enneagram more. There is only 9 types to choose from and the wing thing has always been tricky for me.

I almost immediately identified with my current MBTI type almost 4 years ago, and haven't changed it since, and I also immediately identified with enneagram 5. However, my MBTI type has held up to constant scrutiny, but my enneagram has not. Perhaps there is something about enneagram that I am missing, but for now I will say that it is more difficult to get a solid identification with.

 

[momof3]

I can't find the source of this, but I'm sure I've heard it said that mbti is about the conscious- whereas the enneagram is more about the unconscious. If that's true, it'd make sense that there's less discussion about it. The unconscious is harder to tap into and discuss. At any rate, I definitely see the enneagram as touching more subjective nerves than mbti.

I completely agree. I also think that's why people often don't "test" correctly with the Enneagram. How do you answer questions about your unconsious motivations?

In all of my study of the Enneagram, I can say without a doubt that I needed to pay close attention to what was driving my thoughts, fears, actions, etc. in order to discover who I really was.

Early on, I used to think I was an Enneagram Type 6w7. I tested that way, and I it fit my conscious awareness of myself. For example, I thought I needed support from others to feel whole. There were a few things about the Type 6 that didn't fit, but I just dismissed them. I actually thought that I was just really high in the levels. LOL. But I will never forget the day when a good friend of mine who knew a lot more about the Enneagram than me declared that he was 100% certain that I am not a 6.


As time went on and I grew to better understand the Enneagram, I learned how to peel back the layers and see some things for what they REALLY were....I was not trying to gain people's support, but rather, I was trying to gain their admiration. Furthermore, I realized for the first time in my life that I was constantly comparing myself to others and always secretly competing with others. Never before had I realized that everyone didn't do that. Once I took off my masks and let me unconscious lead the way, I realized I was a 3w2--at least that's what I think today.

Ironically, I voted for the MBTI above, but now I'm wishing I would have voted the other way. Even though I don't know a lot about the MBTI, there was never any doubt about my type (ENFJ). Since the opposite is true for the Enneagram, that's why I voted the way I did. As far as the info I have found most useful, I'd vote Enneagram all the way.

 

[rav3n]

I can't find the source of this, but I'm sure I've heard it said that mbti is about the conscious- whereas the enneagram is more about the unconscious. If that's true, it'd make sense that there's less discussion about it. The unconscious is harder to tap into and discuss. At any rate, I definitely see the enneagram as touching more subjective nerves than mbti.

Love the usage of unconscious instead of subconscious. Enneagram is about the unconscious!

 

[Athenian200]

My MBTI type. I have not been able to determine my Enneagram type with any degree of certainty.

I also feel that MBTI paints a more multi-faceted picture than Enneagram. Enneagram only allows whole archetypes, rather than allowing one to assemble them from smaller pieces for a more precise result.

In fact, I am not even sure that Enneagram is as valid a system as MBTI, though it is certainly interesting.

 

[Tallulah]

I feel like my 5-ness goes hand-in-hand with my INTPness. I don't know as much about enneagram as MBTI, though.

 

[Z Buck McFate]

Love the usage of unconscious instead of subconscious. Enneagram is about the unconscious!

(Can't tell if you're kidding/already know it's often referred to as the unconscious and just playing on other meaning of 'unconscious'.)

from Wikipedia:
The term subconscious is used in many different contexts and has no single or precise definition. This greatly limits its significance as a definition-bearing concept, and in consequence the word tends to be avoided in academic and scientific settings.
In everyday speech and popular writing, however, the term is very commonly encountered as a layperson's replacement for the unconscious mind, which in Freud's opinion is a repository for socially unacceptable ideas, wishes or desires, traumatic memories, and painful emotions put out of mind by the mechanism of psychological repression.

 

[rav3n]

(Can't tell if you're kidding/already know it's often referred to as the unconscious and just playing on other meaning of 'unconscious'.)

Playtime. I have...difficulty with the enneagram theory. But thanks for the clarification (no sarcasm intended).