Dear Fe User,

[Poki]

the best way I can explain it is internal feeling that can best be sensed when it eminates out of the person "riled up", but "riled up" is more about overflowing. An Fi user who has learned that The best way to manage Fi is through Fe actions will focus on Fe actions, but this is not Fe. You cant possibly define things this way. I will do Fe actions because it pulls Fi out of people. My focus is not on the action, but the person. Defining this by an action confuses things. Yes I will/can pull out negative Fi, but I dont like to so its not my strong point. Some people need to have negative Fi pulled out though and this will not come across as harmonious.

Also where people get confused is places where protean said that they stick with comfort, this is where Fe has problems with pulling out Fi vs Fe action. They try to balance but err on the side of comfort in this manner. But dont think that they err on the side of comfort for everything...they are still J and they still have that drive that pushes them outside of that comfort in a different way.

 

[Kalach]

Pretty much all the Fi doms I am close to are all about harmony with others. themselves. The Fi users that I have noticed that have the "I will say and do whatever the hell I want" vibe are the XXTJs.

LOL.

Yes.

But they (we) are attaching values to other things than just value itself. I'm going to go ahead and say the more aware a person is of feeling (which by default means the higher feeling is in function order), the more likely they are to privilege exactly that, and subordinate other concerns to feeling per se. And since other people are a constant source of feeling validation and invalidation, the higher up the F, the more concern for other people just as people.

How about I walk out on a limb and say Fe people (not unlike TJ people) see other people as important items within a system, and Fi people see other people less as systematic items and more as relatively random (though often understandable) objects outside of them?

That seems to me how I can understand Fe/Fi. But it's complicated by other functions being involved. How about this: the higher in the function order is Fi, the less likely a person is to care about systematizing the outer human environment, and by default the less able they are to systematize that outer environment, while the higher the Fe, the more likely the person is to care about outer organization and engage in organizational activity.

As to what the specific goal of that organizational activity may be and what methods get used, presumably this varies according to the person and what they have come to know about themselves and others.

 

[Fidelia]

I think SFJ Fe is different than NFJ Fe from the feedback I've gotten from other people about how they see SFJ Fe at work. I liked your synopsis though highlander from PM's stuff. I think Fe has a lot to do with using all angles of how the group works, connects, gets along (or doesn't) and all of their views and then deciding what is the course of action most amenable to the intended goal, while accommodating the most people. However, Fe sometimes has no problem opposing people. It's not that you only do what the group consensus wants. I think for me, Fe is being aware of how my decision or actions or expressed opinion is going to be reacted to, countered or felt by others and then weighing what course of action will most closely achieve the goal that I am trying for. There are times when opposition is extremely necessary. However I think you should go into it knowing whether you will be winning the battle but losing the war when doing so or what implications it has for everyone involved (will me doing this screw someone else over and does the good to be gained from that counterbalance the cost it will have to me or the person who I am affecting by making this an issue, etc).

Fe also means that I tend to come to a decision or opinion, but then will run it by several other people whom I rely on. Depending on their reactions, I may take more time to consider or may go ahead. I may decide that my emotions about the issue at hand are temporary or should not be acted on, or that they are valid and my gut feeling is right, depending on the uniformity or strength of response from those I trust.

I think Fe starts with itself and what makes sense based on observation and thought put in and then looks outside for input. Fi appears to me to be more open initially to external ideas and influences no matter whom or where they come from, but the final call comes from within one's own self.

 

[Glycerine]

@ Kalach: This is going to sound really bad but MY Fe sees life as a social chess game (which I really suck at). I think it kind of related to what you said about Fe working more within a system.

 

[violaine]

^Wow, that is exactly how I see it. I didn't really assoc that with Fe *shrug*. (I don't participate, I feel like more of an observer but I feel like I can see everyone I know moving within their little orbits, who they orbit around and why. It's not something I try to see, it just happens. Sorry if this is a tangent.)

 

[Fidelia]

No violaine, I do that too. I can't help it either. In fact one of the big things I find fascinating in getting to know new people is figuring out how they fit into the bigger picture. Even on this forum, I like knowing what other people are within one person's orbit, what they care about, what their hot buttons are, where their strengths lie, who they don't hitch with. I think in part it gives me a bigger sense of security because I better know what to expect from them. I also just find it fascinating. Some people like studying science or some kind of business system etc. I like studying human systems and seeing if I can find any particular "laws" at work within a particular little culture of people or within my own interactions with someone. I also like investigating how far afield those laws apply - do they work across many different sub-cultures or not? Is it a human condition or just a person or group specific one?

I don't know if that's Fe or not, but I kind of suspect it is from talking to other people.

 

[Kalach]

What happens when you win?

 

[violaine]

@ Fid: How interesting. It didn't even occur to me that people don't do this automatically! For me it's just how you've described and I would feel blind somehow without it.

 

[Poki]

we dont win, we all die

edit...lol...as in...we all have a lifespan.

 

[Zarathustra]

*this discussion just got really interesting*

 

[Zarathustra]

Ok, now, so all you Fe people know: I see you guys playing this chess game in your head, and it freaks me out.

For reals...

 

[Poki]

the interesting part is when "people" get taken off the board

 

[Glycerine]

What happens when you win?

You get what you want and sweet revenge... I rarely do that though. lol

 

[highlander]

No violaine, I do that too. I can't help it either. In fact one of the big things I find fascinating in getting to know new people is figuring out how they fit into the bigger picture. Even on this forum, I like knowing what other people are within one person's orbit, what they care about, what their hot buttons are, where their strengths lie, who they don't hitch with. I think in part it gives me a bigger sense of security because I better know what to expect from them. I also just find it fascinating. Some people like studying science or some kind of business system etc. I like studying human systems and seeing if I can find any particular "laws" at work within a particular little culture of people or within my own interactions with someone. I also like investigating how far afield those laws apply - do they work across many different sub-cultures or not? Is it a human condition or just a person or group specific one?

I don't know if that's Fe or not, but I kind of suspect it is from talking to other people.

I wonder if this is something of a combination of Ni + Fe.

Some of what you are talking about definitely sounds like the meta-perspective.

 

[Fidelia]

@ violaine - I always thought other people did that too, but after talking to a whole pile of people about it, I found that there are a lot of people that are not particularly interested. They may be interested as it pertains to them, or if it involved intriguing gossip about someone they know, but not just for the sake of it. I am compelled when I go out to dinner to figure out the nature of the relationship of most of the diners around me - first date? Family member? Longterm companions? New acquaintances? I like to watch them interact and predict what will happen next. I found out that some of my friends think that is either intrusive, weird, or just uninteresting. Can't shut it off though.

Somehow I feel uncomfortable until I've kind of figured out the basics of what someone is all about. It's not really even about how I'm going to interact with them, it's more like I just need to know where they fit and what their purpose is. One of my friends used to laugh about me filing people away in various folders and drawers of my mental filing cabinet. I responded that I was always perfectly ready to refile if new information came up, but otherwise they'd be littering my mental living room messily or getting lost under the newspapers somewhere.

 

[Zarathustra]

I wonder if this is something of a combination of Ni + Fe.

It is.

Si+Fe has a lot more to do with just maintaining harmony according to what one considers the the relevant social mores (via one's Si).

Ni adds in that "I want to be able to understand this for the furthering of my vision" edge.

 

[violaine]

Honestly, I have had these people alarm things go off and have remarked upon something matter-of-factly as though everyone can see it and been stunned that no one else can see what is bothering me about someone. In the past I might have said something, like, watch out for so and so and then gotten so much shite about it. Then! Everyone else catches up later. Without exaggeration, in one case, two years later all of my friends caught up and formed the same opinion. I keep those hunches to myself now but they come out of nowhere.

@ Fid, yes, that is what I do automatically as well, it doesn't even register that I'm taking stock. And as you say below, it's not with malevolent intent. Wow, this thread really did get interesting.

 

[Fidelia]

Regarding the chess game, I don't see it as a hostile sort of thing (how can I eliminate you), so much as something like, "If I move here, what counter move is the other person likely to make? Which one of their players will they use? What directions can the different chess pieces around me go and how does that affect me and the other chess pieces in the game? What all chess pieces does the other person have left to work with and are they pawns or something more powerful? Where is their king right now? Am I in danger?"

Do we really freak you out, Z?

Interesting about the Ni/Fe thing. That may account for why it feels much different to me than a lot of people's description of Fe based on interactions with their SFJ peoples.

 

[Poki]

I just like to watch and understand as its interesting. Dont try to predict anything, just work with it.

Fe+Ni defines MBTI internally.

 

[Fidelia]

Honestly, I have had these people alarm things go off and have remarked upon something matter-of-factly as though everyone can see it and been stunned that no one else can see what is bothering me about someone. In the past I might have said something, like, watch out for so and so and then gotten so much shite about it. Then! Everyone else catches up later. Without exaggeration, in one case, two years later all of my friends caught up and formed the same opinion. I keep those hunches to myself now but they come out of nowhere.

@ Fid, yes, that is what I do automatically as well, it doesn't even register that I'm taking stock anymore. Wow, this thread really did get interesting.

I realized awhile ago that some people don't think down the road about anything bad that's going to happen, and can't see it coming. They won't even believe it if you tell them it's coming until you can show them the actual "blood on the knife". I'm not saying I understand everything, but some of these things do seem sort of common sense or obvious.

I'm beginning to conclude that being a Ni-dom means constantly considering all of the possibilities and what would happen with each, kind of like a choose your own adventure book. It's part of the reason why I can't stand people not communicating with me or giving me some kind of information to work with. It's also why I seem to need to have some way to narrow down the possibilities or I can't focus in on what I need to in practicality.

I think maybe non Ni people are focussing their attention on other aspects of life that I am completely oblivious to and routinely miss. They are just as incredulous that I don't see that kind of stuff, which is so very obvious to them.

Would you say that Ni is a "look down the road" function? If so, I think this tendancy manifests itself in human systems with Fe users Ni people and maybe with other kinds of systems for Fi user Ni people, but I don't know.