Typology and Mothers.

[sculpting]

My mom is an ENFP and was quite unstable emotionally.

My ISTP mom-in-law likes to tell people I was raised by wolves.

 

[Trentham]

Just in conversations I've had with various SFJs there's way more education and career focus than family and children focus. Quite a few of them are married with no kids (and no immediate plans for kids) and I'm a little surprised at the vehemence have about not having kids.

That surprises me too. While most of the SFJ women I know personally are indeed career and achievement oriented, family also seems to be an important life goal for them. As an example, my ISFJ ex wife certainly took work and career very seriously (much moreso than I did), but she also had definitive, detailed intentions for children in the future and spent a great deal of time talking about and pre-planning for that eventuality. In fact, one of our major sticking points ended up being the fact that I wanted to wait considerably longer than she did to have kids.

I wonder if there are cultural factors at work? I was raised in a rural area and have spent most of my life around small-town folks (the ex-wife included). I've spent the last six months working in a larger city for the first time in my life (Memphis) and I've noticed that there seems to be a much tighter focus on work and career (vs. family and relationships) among 25-40 year olds here than I've previously encountered.

I wonder if people would accurately type an SFJ mother as SFJ who let's say had higher educational attainment (thus increasing your Openness score in the Big Five), wasn't a teacher or nurse (an SFJ engineer or scientist), wasn't always trying to lick you to death, stuff you with cookies and other baked goods, and didn't obtrusively insert herself into your life.

I'm not sure. Such a mother would break the traditional mold in every sense of the word, which in itself might call into question her SFJ-ness.

 

[Trentham]

My mom's terrified of Facebook and putting information about herself on the Internet. She's terrified that she'll get her identity stolen or that her computer will be infected with some major virus.

I'm convinced that my mom uses Facebook primarily as a tool to keep up with what my sister and I are doing. We both live a long way from home and rarely fill her in on the everyday details of our lives. She also likes it because it allows her to better keep track of all the community gossip.

As for viruses....lol. My dad (who doesn't mess with computers at all) regularly has to take hers to the repair shop to get de-Malwared because mom is a sucker for email chains, browser toolbars, seedy greeting card & smiley-face programs and all that crap. They've probably spent more at the shop than the damn thing cost them in the first place.

 

[proteanmix]

That surprises me too. While most of the SFJ women I know personally are indeed career and achievement oriented, family also seems to be an important life goal for them. As an example, my ISFJ ex wife certainly took work and career very seriously (much moreso than I did), but she also had definitive, detailed intentions for children in the future and spent a great deal of time talking about and pre-planning for that eventuality. In fact, one of our major sticking points ended up being the fact that I wanted to wait considerably longer than she did to have kids.

So what if you met an SFJ who transferred that rigorous thought and planning towards a career or personal passion? The same basic mechanisms applied differently. I'm talking about ambitious career goals like being an entrepreneur, trying to make partner of this firm or top lobbyist with this PAC, or director of that, by 40.

I wonder if there are cultural factors at work? I was raised in a rural area and have spent most of my life around small-town folks (the ex-wife included). I've spent the last six months working in a larger city for the first time in my life (Memphis) and I've noticed that there seems to be a much tighter focus on work and career (vs. family and relationships) among 25-40 year olds here than I've previously encountered.

Yep. I'm in Washington, DC. I've long believed that geographic location affects manifestation of type and if type doesn't manifest in a way people are used to seeing it they won't recognize it. It has to do with exposure.

I'm not sure. Such a mother would break the traditional mold in every sense of the word, which in itself might call into question her SFJ-ness.

Or expand what it means to be an SFJ.

 

[BlackCat]

My mom is an emotionally volatile and manipulative ENFJ. She pretty much fucked me up. I pretty much adamantly refuse to show a lot of my emotions other than anger, which I love to show. She gets offended over nothing, it doesn't matter what I say. It's never good enough. If I show my true emotions, she gets offended it seems. And she tells me that I'm afraid of emotions. If I see any sign that a girl is really emotional and sensitive, then I clam up. I just cannot be close to these kinds of people, I even have a hard time being nice to them.

 

[Trentham]

So what if you met an SFJ who transferred that rigorous thought and planning towards a career or personal passion? The same basic mechanisms applied differently. I'm talking about ambitious career goals like being an entrepreneur, trying to make partner of this firm or top lobbyist with this PAC, or director of that, by 40.

Sure. In fact I've seen it to some extent (though not to the same extent I've seen with STJs of both genders). SFJs are certainly driven by their very nature to doggedly pursue their life goals, whatever those may be. Maybe such an SFJ would transfer her nurturing instincts toward a pet in lieu of children & family?

Yep. I'm in Washington, DC. I've long believed that geographic location affects manifestation of type and if type doesn't manifest in a way people are used to seeing it they won't recognize it. It has to do with exposure.

That makes sense. No matter how expansive our thought processes or openness to ideas, we still tend to operate under the assumptions formulated by our experiences to some extent.

 

[Redbone]

My Mom was ESFJ (maybe ISFJ). She was great when we were really young (read: needy) but as soon as we got older and more independent...well she took it personally. Emotionally manipulative, guilt-trippin', sneering, blowing hot and cold, exceedingly self-centered, and fucking delusional. She thought the world owed her big-time.

It really went downhill when I became a teen. She really started to drink heavily and became an alcoholic. Hell for years with this. One of the worst memories that I have of her is when I had to be hospitalized because of severe pre-eclampsia. It was really bad and they had to fight to save me and the little person. My oldest sister had to jump on her to tell her to sober up because the situation was serious and her daughter needed her. It's awful to think we could have died and my mother would have been too drunk to notice. She died a little over a year later. It wasn't just me...she hurt a lot of people all the while thinking she was the one who had been hurt most of all.

Yeah...she did a lot of damage.

My ex is an ESFJ, too. I think I may have subconsciously thought he was an improved version of my mother.

 

[EJCC]

I have noticed a definite trend in regard to mothers, their apparent type and peoples perception of that said type.

What's the trend? Unless you said it already on this thread and I missed it...

Do you know your Mothers type?

Yep - she's INFJ.

Has it had a positive, negative or no affect on you in regard to that type?

I'd say... positive? I have a lot of friends who are INFJ (and ENFJ) now, and I'm good at dealing with them. I'm good at reassuring their neuroses, just by being grounded and rationalistic (comparatively speaking).

It's kind of funny, actually - after about age thirteen, I found myself on the opposite end of the typical INFJ relationship - i.e. it was my mom who was venting all her problems at me, and me going "Why do you keep doing this????" It was years later that I even figured out that she was venting, instead of just talking about her hard and depressing life. I actually think she may have effected my Enneagram more than my Myers-Briggs, because - well, I don't remember what thread it was, that was talking about how dominant types with people-pleasing kids tend to turn the kids into Enneagram 1, but either way, that fits me really well. I don't think my mom meant to do this, but she put a ton of pressure on me. It was mostly because I was so sensitive to the idea of not doing things the right way, that whenever she would vent about things not being done right... yeah - Even now, she forwards me articles about injustices in the world with the subject line "Go out and make the world a better place!" I realize she's exaggerating when she does that, but nonetheless, there's a certain amount of pressure built into that kind of motherly behavior.

We're really good friends, though. I'm sort of being picky with describing the negatives because I want the description to be multidimensional. Overall, we have pretty much the same sense of humor, we get along famously, we reassure each other when we need reassuring... etc.

So, to sum it up - I think I like INFJs more because of having one as a parent.

 

[EJCC]

Or expand what it means to be an SFJ.

+100000000000000000000000000

 

[Arclight]

What's the trend? Unless you said it already on this thread and I missed it...

.

I have noticed some hostility towards types from some people who seemed to have had bad relationships with their mothers who are that same type. Especially ENFJs .. To me ENFJs seem to get their label of being manipulative from people who had bad relationships with their ENFJ moms. So I was just kind of expanding on this thought to see if the trend expands beyond ENFJs .

 

[cafe]

I'm starting to wonder if being a mother makes you crazy.

 

[Randomnity]

I'm starting to wonder if being a mother makes you crazy.

That or people with crazy mothers are drawn here.

 

[proteanmix]

That or people with crazy mothers are drawn here.

Would that be surprising?

 

[cafe]

Would that be surprising?

Not at all. I know I'm still trying to make sense of it all and MBTI is one avenue of explanation for some of the crazy.

 

[PeaceBaby]

I wonder if people would accurately type an SFJ mother as SFJ who let's say had higher educational attainment (thus increasing your Openness score in the Big Five), wasn't a teacher or nurse (an SFJ engineer or scientist), wasn't always trying to lick you to death, stuff you with cookies and other baked goods, and didn't obtrusively insert herself into your life.

My mom is an eSFJ and doesn't fall into the stereotypes you mention ... but she would have made an excellent doctor or nurse though; she's a very intelligent, resourceful and caring planner, and loves the subject of medicine.

 

[OrangeAppled]

That surprises me too. While most of the SFJ women I know personally are indeed career and achievement oriented, family also seems to be an important life goal for them.

I wonder if there are cultural factors at work?

I'm not sure. Such a mother would break the traditional mold in every sense of the word, which in itself might call into question her SFJ-ness.

I think there are generational factors involved also. Women are supposed to "have it all" now. It is a cultural norm now in many ways to pursue career first, then have children in your 30s; or that having career means sacrificing being a parent. Fe adjusts to social/cultural values, so I'd see younger SFJs as aiming for this "new" norm, especially since this concept has been emphasized the past 30 years in western culture, and it's what has been set before them as the ideal.

 

[Trentham]

I think there are generational factors involved also. Women are supposed to "have it all" now. It is a cultural norm now in many ways to pursue career first, then have children in your 30s; or that having career means sacrificing being a parent. Fe adjusts to social/cultural values, so I'd see younger SFJs as aiming for this "new" norm, especially since this concept has been emphasized the past 30 years in western culture, and it's what has been set before them as the ideal.

Excellent point.

 

[CuriousFeeling]

Mine's an ISTJ 1w2 sp/so.

 

[Thalassa]

I have noticed some hostility towards types from some people who seemed to have had bad relationships with their mothers who are that same type. Especially ENFJs .. To me ENFJs seem to get their label of being manipulative from people who had bad relationships with their ENFJ moms. So I was just kind of expanding on this thought to see if the trend expands beyond ENFJs .

Well I hate to say it, but this thread has actually reinforced my opinion that ESFPs can make horrible, unstable mothers unless there is a stabilizing father figure of a more responsible type.

Anything I can say about my SJ grandparents utterly pales in comparison to the disdain I sometimes feel for my mother, and the pity I feel for my sisters having been stuck with her more than I was.

 

[Ingenue]

Well I hate to say it, but this thread has actually reinforced my opinion that ESFPs can make horrible, unstable mothers unless there is a stabilizing father figure of a more responsible type.

Perhaps unstable is too strong of a word to generalize ESFP mothers. I'm inclined to think more like heedless. My ESFP mother took her parental duties very responsibly, but there was a level of recklessness in her decision-making process. For example, she was not very good at managing money, and that combined with my INTP father's lax and often oblivious attitude about money turned into stupid investment decisions. She's certainly a risk taker and has a kind of "if everyone else is [making money/doing something] then why can't I?" attitude and happily jumps into an investment without much thought. But yes, it does help when there is a stabilizing figure in the equation. I would say that both my mother and father are doing much better financially (and emotionally) now that they have more "stable" spouses.