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ESTJ

Xander

Lex Parsimoniae
Joined
Apr 24, 2007
Messages
4,463
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
9w8
Is my opposite type ESFJ or is it one which I share no correlation with?

This is something I have struggled with. It also messes up all the numbers. You see as you have noted ESFJ and INTP are NOT opposites because both are EJ/IP and therefore similar in one regard. Surely the type which is my opposite is one that has no similarities or am I being too stringent?

(Oh and forgive my lateness, work went mad today and I had no time online!!)
 

Nadir

Enigma
Joined
Dec 17, 2007
Messages
544
MBTI Type
INxJ
Enneagram
4
lastrailway, ISFP is 8361, not 2547 (ISFJ, listed twice). Just a nitpick!
Xander:

ISFP - 8361
INTP - 4725
= 12 10 8 6
INTP - 4725
ENTJ - 1638
= 5 13 5 13

Knock yourself out!
 

wildcat

New member
Joined
Jun 8, 2007
Messages
3,622
MBTI Type
INTP
Is my opposite type ESFJ or is it one which I share no correlation with?

This is something I have struggled with. It also messes up all the numbers. You see as you have noted ESFJ and INTP are NOT opposites because both are EJ/IP and therefore similar in one regard. Surely the type which is my opposite is one that has no similarities or am I being too stringent?

(Oh and forgive my lateness, work went mad today and I had no time online!!)
The ESFJ/INTP function order is

Fe Si Se Fi Te Ni Ne Ti

The yellow and the blue are complementary colours. The opposite ends of the green.

The continuum is one.
 

wildcat

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lastrailway, ISFP is 8361, not 2547 (ISFJ, listed twice). Just a nitpick!
Xander:

ISFP - 8361
INTP - 4725
= 12 10 8 6
INTP - 4725
ENTJ - 1638
= 5 13 5 13

Knock yourself out!
see surplus Fe. The post seven. The parallel order of functions by lastrailway.
 

miss fortune

not to be trusted
Joined
Oct 4, 2007
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sp/so
:huh: so would the ENTP be the opposite of the ESTP because both in adding or subtracting all of the scores together it's on the opposite side of the circle from ESTP instead of INFJs? :cry:

I'm kind of a bit confused here (and I did quite a bit of math :blush:) somehow I was confused in the first place though since it would actually make more since to me if INFP was the opposite because they have all of the functions that DON'T appear in my top four as thier top 4 :thinking:

wow- thinking just confused me even more than I was in the first place! :laugh:
 

wildcat

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:huh: so would the ENTP be the opposite of the ESTP because both in adding or subtracting all of the scores together it's on the opposite side of the circle from ESTP instead of INFJs? :cry:

I'm kind of a bit confused here (and I did quite a bit of math :blush:) somehow I was confused in the first place though since it would actually make more since to me if INFP was the opposite because they have all of the functions that DON'T appear in my top four as thier top 4 :thinking:

wow- thinking just confused me even more than I was in the first place! :laugh:
Adding and substracting can lead away if the fix is not there.
Do not worry, we shall have the record straight.

Let us have the fix

87654321
38527416
25836147
56781234
43218765
74163852
61472583
12345678

I hope there is no typo. The first and the second half should be switched in the fifth horizontal column (read the ISTP from the left and the ENFJ from the right)
contra the first horizontal.
The ESTP/INFJ continuum is the 6th vertical column. Top/bottom, respectively. It should swich the parts of the second vertical..
The ISFJ/ENTP continuum is the third horizontal column.

Nah. I may have blundered up. Did not yet have coffee..
Coffee time!
 

wildcat

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INTP
Nothing wrong there. Beware my short sightedness. A literal handycap.

We can use the ESTJ numbers in the fix and in what is related to the fix.
Beyond that, we are bound in the original set: 12345678

Nothing wrong with the application of the ESTJ numbers a priori.
The subjective numbers can be used objectively in the discernment.
Not in the definition of another subject though.

The definition of the subject can only be done from the standpoint of the subject.

1+4 = 5 = 2+3

of
the 12345678 order.

In each set.

Does the number theory turn geometry around?
No.
It turns only the presentation around.

A reflection in the water.
 

Xander

Lex Parsimoniae
Joined
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Messages
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INTP
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9w8
The ESFJ/INTP function order is

Fe Si Se Fi Te Ni Ne Ti

The yellow and the blue are complementary colours. The opposite ends of the green.

The continuum is one.
A meander to counter your pondering ;)

Is the MBTI not based on four? Is it in fact based on three?
The colours are based on three, hence red has no opposite colour per se, only integration towards it's flanking colours. The opposite of red should in fact be green should it not? Ergo the opposite type is not one which simply reverses every letter but one which lies in between two versions of our current preference each lying on our flank?

I don't think that quite works. I thought it might link to the answer of 9 but now I think not.

Anyhow the opposite to an INTP should be ESFP in my humble opinion. What do you think?
 

Xander

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9w8
Wildcat "Master of Confusion" said:
87654321
38527416
25836147
56781234
43218765
74163852
61472583
12345678
Okay so I get the idea that the first row is the reverse of the last but how did you arrive at the vertical sequence? I expected it to be cyclical but it's not.

As you have referred to the set of numbers given in the OP as specific to ESTJ then what type is each line specific to or is the table ESTJ specific? If it's the whole table then why have 64 entries for 8 functions?

I know you don't like this line of questioning but I'm determined to understand that damn matrix this time! That's at least the third time you've posted it and it still doesn't make sense yet!
 

wildcat

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The vertical?

The zero comes in handy. Is it a number? Come on.
10-7 = 3

If you have 7 succeeding eight in the horizontal column you can have only 3 below the eight.
7+3 = 10.
In the second horizontal column you have 8 behind the 3. You can have only 2 under the 3.
2+8 = 10.

And so on and so on until the sequence is cut by
11111111. The end of the triangle.
The reflection gives only back what is.
 

Xander

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What happened to 9? You've changed to 10. You said 9 was your friend, you LIED!!

;)

Really though how does the vertical relate to the function order? Is it the "other" types not listed horizontally? Why are some vertical and some horizontal? Which one is E or EJ or similar?
 

Xander

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I would like to take a break from being civil for a while to truely appreciate this moment of revelation but I fear I cannot as my sense of decency will not allow for it.

Woohoo.
(That feels so limp)

I now understand that square though it has nothing to do with ten nor do I agree with what you've done.. It should be the other way up :D

I get it. All the type in a table. All the function orders listed. Fantastic. I'll expand later I have guests soon.

Oh and lastrailway, pucker up I'm going to kiss you when I find you. Bloomin brilliant!

PS I should not "other way up" in that I think that tables should read down and not up. Other than that I'm all :static:
 

Nadir

Enigma
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Dec 17, 2007
Messages
544
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INxJ
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4
Er... just in case you wanted to look at something like this...
Okay, maybe it could help to visualize it a bit. And the space is for taking notes, I suppose. I couldn't upload the xls.
 

wildcat

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Er... just in case you wanted to look at something like this...
Okay, maybe it could help to visualize it a bit. And the space is for taking notes, I suppose. I couldn't upload the xls.
Splendid. Good show.
 

wildcat

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I would like to take a break from being civil for a while to truely appreciate this moment of revelation but I fear I cannot as my sense of decency will not allow for it.

Woohoo.
(That feels so limp)

I now understand that square though it has nothing to do with ten nor do I agree with what you've done.. It should be the other way up :D

I get it. All the type in a table. All the function orders listed. Fantastic. I'll expand later I have guests soon.

Oh and lastrailway, pucker up I'm going to kiss you when I find you. Bloomin brilliant!

PS I should not "other way up" in that I think that tables should read down and not up. Other than that I'm all :static:
Sorry I could not get to the forum.
I shall try to answer your questions.

You see the continuum of the 8 that runs through the square. Stop at the fourth number 8. You have number 1 under it. Follow the continuum of 1 down to the end.

Now you have marked a border. Look at the triangle inside the border.
You see the vertical column left. Do not touch the border.
3+2 = 5
5+4 = 9
7+6 = 13
5+4 = 13-4

You see also the triangle up and down and on the right.

36 = 9X4

= 13+13+5+5

The nine is the key number.

If the ten makes you uncomfy forget it. Big deal.

Did you say that ESTP is the complementary partner of INTP? No way.

The complementary partners stand on a continuum. All the NTs have the numbers (in diverse order of course) seven and four and one and six in the anterior package. This should be reflected in the posterior package of the SP. Save number seven, this is not the case. Their posterior numbers are five six seven and eight.

What should be the other way up?
 

MacGuffin

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xkcd
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sx/sp
??????????

flclwtfhn4.jpg
LOL
 

miss fortune

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mbtistuff-1.jpg


:rofl1: after much work I end up with the same thing as Nadir- only less colorful- interesting because you can see which function of yours ends up as which function for each other type- but I don't understand why, for instance, my functions don't appear in the order of Se Ti Fe Ni Si Te Fi Ne, as opposed to having the unused functions appear in the middle :sad:

I also don't understand why in the order of things it goes
1 Te
2 Si
3 Se
4 Ti
5 Fe
6 Ni
7 Ne
8 Fi

why are the Ss and Ns together, but the Ts and Fs split? :huh:

somewhat getting an idea of what's going on, but not completely sure still :thinking:
 

Nocapszy

no clinkz 'til brooklyn
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ENTP
Wildcat m'man...

...

I normally dig your posts, but I can't figure this bull out. It would probably help if I knew what you were trying to assert. Sounds like you're just looking to challenge yourself, but I'm not sure.

Also, I'd like to second Whatever's question about why the order is that way.

Upon reexamining the first post I'm even more convinced that you're just playing with numbers. It's not even about the MBTI now is it? Just the numbers?
 

Xander

Lex Parsimoniae
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Apr 24, 2007
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9w8
mbtistuff-1.jpg


:rofl1: after much work I end up with the same thing as Nadir- only less colorful- interesting because you can see which function of yours ends up as which function for each other type- but I don't understand why, for instance, my functions don't appear in the order of Se Ti Fe Ni Si Te Fi Ne, as opposed to having the unused functions appear in the middle :sad:

I also don't understand why in the order of things it goes
1 Te
2 Si
3 Se
4 Ti
5 Fe
6 Ni
7 Ne
8 Fi

why are the Ss and Ns together, but the Ts and Fs split? :huh:

somewhat getting an idea of what's going on, but not completely sure still :thinking:
You're getting there but Nadir seems to have the order worked out correctly for ESTPs.
Wildcat m'man...

...

I normally dig your posts, but I can't figure this bull out. It would probably help if I knew what you were trying to assert. Sounds like you're just looking to challenge yourself, but I'm not sure.

Also, I'd like to second Whatever's question about why the order is that way.

Upon reexamining the first post I'm even more convinced that you're just playing with numbers. It's not even about the MBTI now is it? Just the numbers?

I believe the whole idea relates back to an old conversation me and Wildcat had on the previous MBTIc incarnation. It's basically a way of representing all eight functions for all sixteen types in one table. It's taken me ages to see it but I think that's what it is.
 
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