[Jungian Cognitive Functions] Ni - What the hell is it?

[Straylight]

Of all the functions, this is probably the hardest to understand what it means.

I mean you read a description and it's like "Knowing thins instinctively" and "Experiencing Premonitions" and it's just like WTF? It's hardly an explanation of how a mental function works. Does anyone have a better explanation? I can almost never tell definitively in characters if what they are using is Ne or Ni, since both are abstract idea generators and pattern connectors, supposedly.

According to the theory,

Whenever your brain interprets information it can be classified into two categories: the objective quantifiable properties of it and the subjective qualities of it. This correlates with the extraverted and introverted attitudes described by Jung.

Intuition is (according to Jung) our ability to make predictions that are not based on reason, but rather, on hunches. "Hunches" is really the best word to use here, because everyone knows what it is like to have a hunch, a guess at something, before you have really thought it through.

When your hunches are triggered and depend upon the quantifiable properties of actual observable things (objects, places, people, events, ideas, etc), then they are extraverted. For example, while observing a group of people having a discussion, you may begin to notice subtle patterns in their mannerisms that seem to indicate to you what their individual personalities might be, but you aren't sure why they indicate this, you have only the "gist" of it in your head, and would need to further develop the insight into a real notion that you could then explain to someone.

When your hunches are triggered and depend upon the subjective qualities of things ("qualities" are subjective because they depend upon your own individual biases as a person, which are disturbed and evoked by their contact with other things), then they are introverted. For example, while observing the same group of people having a discussion, the Ni-type's intuition selectively chooses and emphasizes the aspects of that discussion that reinforce the particular world-view of the Ni-type. If he is a cynic, then he has a cynical insight. If he is an optimist, he has an optimistic insight. The intuition is subjective because it carries a bias.

In the case of the INTJ-Ni/Te, those insights are either voiced/expressed (extraverted thinking) in the form of an opinion/decision about them, if they can be supported by facts and evidence. If they cannot, then they won't be voiced and remain personal/private (introverted intuition), giving the appearance of swift decisiveness and confidence.

In the case of the INTP-Ti/Ne, the insights are openly discussed as possibilities rather than opinions or decisions (extraverted intuition), while the personal opinion and final decision regarding the information is kept private (introverted thinking) because of it's subjective nature, giving the appearance of indecisiveness and lack of confidence.

 

[Eric B]

Just came up with this way to express all four perception attitudes, for the purpose of continuing to come up witha better way to understand/explain Ni, in comparison with the others.

Basically, it starts by thinking of S as dealing with space, and N with time (as Jung even said):
http://www.typologycentral.com/foru...s/90105-space-time-awareness.html#post2840329

N overall deals with patterns that can be abstracted from one situation to give meaning to another. This occurs through time (while S is about what's here and now or "static" whether experienced in the immediate environment through the three dimensions of space, or filtered through individual memory).

So Ne then involves what you experience when following the chain of occurrences when looking through the dimension of time. Its inferences occur along this time line (in the environment). Hence, what "could" happen. Also, following past patterns, and continuing their trajectories to get a sense of what will happen. (Of course, things can change, and so Ne remains "open").

So then Ni also looks at the dimension of time, but its inferences do not come from the timeline, but rather from the individual, which is the unconscious. This is the domain of the "archetypal" (images that are collective, and not tied directly to our external experience), and what do we often describe archetypal images as? "Timeless"! (meaning pervasive through time; not on our individual timeline of experience).

This corresponds to the description once given to me, that Ne looks "in terms of" a pattern, while Ni looks "outside the pattern".

 

[kotoshinohaisha]

I think Ni is important in predicting the future. Because in my real life, noone seems to have Ni for fucking real. They suck. (management shit. They should suppose to know what to do but failed on that part.)

 

[Straylight]

I think Ni is important in predicting the future. Because in my real life, noone seems to have Ni for fucking real. They suck. (management shit. They should suppose to know what to do but failed on that part.)

Ni is almost certainly important in predicting the future. You may wish to rent or purchase a copy of Gifts Differing by Isabel Myers-Briggs, it goes really in-depth into it. It's also pretty much the cornerstone of MBTI, and the next best thing to reading the MBTI Manual Third Edition textbook published by CPP (I don't recommend the MBTI Manual unless you have a very good understanding of the statistical methods used in scientific research and/or are a psychology major with an academic interest in this stuff).

 

[Straylight]

Just came up with this way to express all four perception attitudes, for the purpose of continuing to come up witha better way to understand/explain Ni, in comparison with the others.

Basically, it starts by thinking of S as dealing with space, and N with time (as Jung even said):
http://www.typologycentral.com/foru...s/90105-space-time-awareness.html#post2840329

N overall deals with patterns that can be abstracted from one situation to give meaning to another. This occurs through time (while S is about what's here and now or "static" whether experienced in the immediate environment through the three dimensions of space, or filtered through individual memory).

So Ne then involves what you experience when following the chain of occurrences when looking through the dimension of time. Its inferences occur along this time line (in the environment). Hence, what "could" happen. Also, following past patterns, and continuing their trajectories to get a sense of what will happen. (Of course, things can change, and so Ne remains "open").

So then Ni also looks at the dimension of time, but its inferences do not come from the timeline, but rather from the individual, which is the unconscious. This is the domain of the "archetypal" (images that are collective, and not tied directly to our external experience), and what do we often describe archetypal images as? "Timeless"! (meaning pervasive through time; not on our individual timeline of experience).

This corresponds to the description once given to me, that Ne looks "in terms of" a pattern, while Ni looks "outside the pattern".

First, can I just say I'm glad to see you're still active and continuing your research. I've always found your articles and ideas really insightful. Thank you.

What you are indicating here reminded me of Jung's description of Ni in Psychological Types when he gives a comparison to Si for contrast:

...Whereas introverted sensation is mainly confined to the perception of particular innervation phenomena by way of the unconscious, and does not go beyond them, intuition represses this side of the subjective factor and perceives the image which has really occasioned the innervation.

After researching what he means by "innervation" I understand that he is saying, essentially, that:

(a) something disturbs the contents of the unconscious of the person
(b) which is perceived by the person in two ways:
(c1) one being a sensation which constitutes the subjective quality of the contents (the descriptive words attached to the contents)
(c2) and the other is the "image" of the contents which constitutes the intuition (the literal quantitative contents themselves, analogous to Se perceiving the quantitative "stuff" present in the outer world).

To further expand upon (c2), you might see what I mean by "quantitative stuff present in the outer world" being analogous to the way Ni interprets inner images if you recall Jung again in the same description of Ni,

... Intuition, in the introverted attitude, is directed upon the inner object, a term we might justly apply to the elements of the unconscious. For the relation of inner objects to consciousness is entirely analogous to that of outer objects, although theirs is a psychological and not a physical reality. Inner objects appear to the intuitive perception as subjective images of things, which, though not met with in external experience, really determine the contents of the unconscious, i.e. the collective unconscious, in the last resort. Naturally, in their per se character, these contents are, not accessible to experience, a quality which they have in common with the outer object. For just as outer objects correspond only relatively with our perceptions of them, so the phenomenal forms of the inner object are also relative; products of their (to us) inaccessible essence and of the peculiar nature of the intuitive function.

I hope this makes sense.

Also, your categorization of S = space and N = time seems like a very good way to put it. Putting it that way is congruent with both the general Socionics description of the two functions, as well as my vague recollection of something I read in Jung's Tarkovsky Lectures on Analytical Psychology in London when he says as much by defining sensation as "it exists", thinking as "what is it", intuition as "where is it going/where did it come from", and feeling as "what is its value".

 

[Eric B]

Wasn't aware of that for Socionics.

Jung's language is so dense with some of those words he uses, that's why it takes so long to understand and there's such a need to reframe it in simpler ways.
So yes the clue was in the familiar “It exists”, “where it comes from; where it's heading”, which I discuss here http://www.typologycentral.com/foru...s/90105-space-time-awareness.html#post2840547 and was supposed to include the link, abvoe, but forgot, in nhe rush, last night.

What throws one off is the “it exists/[is]”, which may make you think of both space and time, but S covers your awareness of “what is” in space, regardless of how long it lasts, what it does, or where it came from or is heading, in time, which is what makes up the “patterns” of N awareness.

 

[kotoshinohaisha]

Ni is almost certainly important in predicting the future. You may wish to rent or purchase a copy of Gifts Differing by Isabel Myers-Briggs, it goes really in-depth into it. It's also pretty much the cornerstone of MBTI, and the next best thing to reading the MBTI Manual Third Edition textbook published by CPP (I don't recommend the MBTI Manual unless you have a very good understanding of the statistical methods used in scientific research and/or are a psychology major with an academic interest in this stuff).

Are fortune tellers infj?

 

[Forever]

It's all in your mind

 

[Eric B]

Lenore had defined Ni in the book (Personality Type: An Owner's Manual p223) as "liberate our sense impressions from their larger context, thereby creating more options for perception itself", which might be hard for non-Ni types to really grasp.
The timeline idea explains it. The "larger context" is what occurs in the time dimension, but the "unconscious impressions" are from outside of the time dimension, and so you can get more kinds of interpretations than what were available in the temporal environment.
The example given is raising the question in one's mind of the possible reasons a suntan is valued by people today, when the original circumstances that gave it its meaning have changed. Again, we see the time element of this, and the pondering steps outside of this timeline to raise the question of why it's still considered attractive.

Likewise, "perspectives" is the single word nickname Personality Hacker gives to Ni, and they describe it as "not married to its own perspective", and "watching your mind form patterns", and "eventually, over time you're going to get the 'pattern of the pattern'; you're going to understand how brains form patterns" [hence, "meta-awareness"], and so when listening to another person they can shift out of their own perspective and into the other person's perspective and get a sense of what's going on with them, and be able to guess "I bet this is the pattern created in the other person's mind", so it looks like reading their mind and tell what they're thinking.

Looking at the temporal patterns limits us to what we can see from them, where we can't see the future, and so the possibilities int he environment remain "open". A lot of different things "could" happen. Looking outside the pattern is "open" in an internal sense, as you don;t have to rely on patterns of experience. However, it ends up creating less "open" environmental possibilities, and also working with extraverted judgment, which makes the observations and solutions more "closed".

 

[Norexan]

"i told you so"
'Aha! That's it!"
"This is what happens right now!"
"This is going to happen!"
Subjective imagination -> Ni.
You feel like you are the Time Lord!

Why Se i Ni are the opposite functions?
Cuz You can't explore something if you already sow it in your mind and it's sucks sometimes in your life.
I think we who have dom Ni we must use more our Se because when we use it we are unstoppable.

 

[EnnisPreit]

"i told you so"
'Aha! That's it!"
"This is what happens right now!"
"This is going to happen!"
Subjective imagination -> Ni.
You feel like you are the Time Lord!

Why Se i Ni are the opposite functions?
Cuz You can't explore something if you already sow it in your mind and it's sucks sometimes in your life.
I think we who have dom Ni we must use more our Se because when we use it we are unstoppable.

I imagine my Ni like the yellow highlighted ring of where the ball is expected to land when punting in madden. Lol

 

[Norexan]

Precognition. Only ones with really strong Ni know this.

 

[Ashtart]

The explanation of Ni is held by SNUC (Supreme Ni Users Corporation). Only Ni-dom and Ni-aux people are able to be part and if they do tell any non Ni user how it operates, both people are immediately killed by one of the Protectors of Ni.

-

Ni is just collecting a bunch of abstract shit and turn it into an actual idea. But this is a process so unconscious that some dumb people think they are some sort of psychic and the like.

 

[Peter Deadpan]

The explanation of Ni is held by SNUC (Supreme Ni Users Corporation). Only Ni-dom and Ni-aux people are able to be part and if they do tell any non Ni user how it operates, both people are immediately killed by one of the Protectors of Ni.

-

Ni is just collecting a bunch of abstract shit and turn it into an actual idea. But this is a process so unconscious that some dumb people think they are some sort of psychic and the like.

I think it's actually using some sensory stuff which leads to the abstract thought which is the Ni part. Se sees what is in front of it, and Ni fills in the blanks. Ni sorta works backwards and is really good at the how and the why of things. For example, INFJs use Se and Fe to analyze people, and Ni is where they get all of their insight into the human condition from. This is why they make good counselors.

 

[Ashtart]

I think it's actually using some sensory stuff which leads to the abstract thought which is the Ni part. Se sees what is in front of it, and Ni fills in the blanks. Ni sorta works backwards and is really good at the how and the why of things. For example, INFJs use Se and Fe to analyze people, and Ni is where they get all of their insight into the human condition from. This is why they make good counselors.

That's part of what I've tried to say. I believe Se collects the informations, Ni turns these infos and turns it into an idea. With Fe, these ideas are externalized (some of them).

 

[Norexan]

That's part of what I've tried to say. I believe Se collects the informations, Ni turns these infos and turns it into an idea. With Fe, these ideas are externalized (some of them).

Ni collect informations with help of
Fe who see people interactions and then
Ti analyze got informations and then
Se transform informations into real data

Simple.

 

[Peter Deadpan]

That's part of what I've tried to say. I believe Se collects the informations, Ni turns these infos and turns it into an idea. With Fe, these ideas are externalized (some of them).

Right.

I use my Fe and Se to pick up on details about a person's mood. Ni and Ti work together to form theories as to why said person is acting said way. Oftentimes, my Ni conclusions never leave my head, but if the opportunity arises, say a friend in need starts talking about their struggles, then I will willingly engage my Fe in a manner which I think will best suit their needs. But yeah, Ni is weird because it's not very public at all, even when we use it, because when we use our Ni wisdom, we are still considerate of the feelings of the other involved, so we may carefully word things so as not to make the other uncomfortable. For example, if a friend is struggling with a relationship, I'm not just gonna say "it's cuz you have shit self-esteem and your dad was a piece of crap so you don't know how to accept authentic love and instead keep trying to earn it from assholes." Although I know all of this because of Ni, I'm going to be very careful with how I approach the situation because of Fe.

 

[1487610420]

yes, it is.

 

[Peter Deadpan]

yes, it is.

Yeps.

 

[Ashtart]

Ni collect informations with help of
Fe who see people interactions and then
Ti analyze got informations and then
Se transform informations into real data
Simple.

If you think cognitive functions are simple, you are either a psychological genius or way too simplistic.