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  1. #961
    Senior Member Dashy CVII's Avatar
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    I don't like to make too many extra assumptions on Ni, because it's a simple function and there are people who type as Percieving who are Ni dominants who may get confused at the Judging definitions of Ni. Ni and Ne are primary Perceiving functions that adhere to open possibilities. The difference is that, Ni refers to possibilities and ideas in inward perception, devoid of outward perception (Pe), while Ne refers to possibilities and ideas in the external moment and external things happening. It is outward perception. I think the foundation for this is well-described in the links in my signature as well as Lenore Thomson's book. So these are the easiest base descriptions with, I believe, no extra assumptions. Whether you're an Ni type or Ne type (in MBTI as well as Socionics) is not something you'll know from an MBTI preference test, I think it's just something you realize for yourself.

    Introverted Intuition - from Personalityhacker.com and Dario Nardi
    "You naturally perspective-shift to understand a problem or situation from all possible angles. People haven't spent nearly as much time as you thinking about various angles to something. You find it intrinsically rewarding to refine ideas and concepts where others don't, and because of this you are naturally insightful. When given a problem or mystery, your brain tries to harness every neocortex region together in order to “realize” an answer from different angles. Each brain region provides a different perspective, and you're able to reconcile various unusual perspectives to find a best-fit answer or strategy to a problem or puzzle. You naturally observe your own mind forming patterns, and easily get into the perspective of others. One relevant example of Ni is "There are different perspectives for categorizing people in a typology system like MBTI. People have different perspectives on their own systems and takes on the functions. Thus, for an Ni dominant, it makes it hard to get too caught up in one way over another."

    Extroverted Intuition - from Personalityhacker.com and Dario Nardi
    You naturally find connections between disparate things in the outside world, pushing buttons and looking for patterns. By opening up to all possibilities, you are able to create connections between people, ideas, objects, or places that discover new and unheard-of ways of thinking. You love to ask the question “What if?” and few things are as satisfying as blazing a new trail, often in both a literal and metaphoric sense. While most personality types focus in on related brain regions to answer certain questions, you naturally use trans-contextual thinking to include brain regions that seem to be unrelated to the question at hand. This helps you discover unusual relationships between situations. Most people, for instance, upon hearing the words “dog” and “cat” will evoke auditory regions and perhaps some visual or memory regions. However, you get busy trying each region at a time …for instance, you suddenly imagine a story about two brothers, one of whom is faithful and sociable (like a dog) while the other is independent and quiet (like a cat)."
    Last edited by Dashy CVII; 02-20-2018 at 03:23 AM.
    Gamma | NiTe | INTJ
    I'm more concerned with what an Introverted vs Extroverted Function really is in the human mind, than I am with the mainstream definitions.
    Ni vs Ne [1] | What are Pe, Pi, Je and Ji? [1] | What are Ni and Ne? [1] [2]

  2. #962
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    amount of white matter or synaptic connections in your brain

  3. #963
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    I've been thinking another way to sum up the difference between Ne and Ni, Ne usually involves consciously making an inference from some sort of "object" (even if stored in memory; there are actually what are known as "inner objects"), while for Ni, the inference (or even just a random 'image') comes from within. Ne and Ni (as "iNtuition") are both described as "unconscious" because they're dealing with inferences and not hard items you "consciously" sense before you; but Ne (being extraverted) is consciously accessed, while Ni (as introverted) is less consciously accessed; it just "comes up".
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  4. #964
    FREEEEEEEEEEEEEE Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    I've been thinking another way to sum up the difference between Ne and Ni, Ne usually involves consciously making an inference from some sort of "object" (even if stored in memory; there are actually what are known as "inner objects"), while for Ni, the inference (or even just a random 'image') comes from within. Ne and Ni (as "iNtuition") are both described as "unconscious" because they're dealing with inferences and not hard items you "consciously" sense before you; but Ne (being extraverted) is consciously accessed, while Ni (as introverted) is less consciously accessed; it just "comes up".
    Can you provide a concrete example of what you're describing here?
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  5. #965
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Ne: looking at one personality type system, and comparing it to another, or imagining its potential
    Ni: having a vision of personality and behaviors and [using Je], determining which one measures up the most to it.
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    Ti 54.3 | Ne 47.3 | Si 37.8 | Fe 17.7 | Te 22.5 | Ni 13.4 | Se 18.9 | Fi 27.9

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  6. #966
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    I've just seen, it's probably just simpler to go back to Jung's basic definition of the perception functions: S: "what it is"; N "where it's heading". "It" in this case, is the "object" itself.

    If S=
    Se what it is, from looking directly at the object
    Si what it is from looking at the internal impressions of the subject

    Then N=
    Ne where it came from or is heading, from looking directly at the object
    Ni where it came from or is heading, from looking at the internal impressions of the subject
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  7. #967
    Time-OverLord Norexan's Avatar
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    Ne -Intuition -> see A ------> B (C D E)
    Ni - Time ---> see A --------> B


    When Ni and Ne work with you:
    Ni with Ti -> persisting.
    Ni with Te -> forecasting.

    Ne with Ti -> innovation
    Ne with Te -> creativeness.


    When Ni and Ne work against you:
    Fe with Ne -> paranoia
    Ti with Ni -> psychopathy

    Fi with Ni -> OCD
    Te with Ne -> speculations
    True Neutral 8 1 3 7 5 Teexcellent>Niexcellent>Figood>Tigood>>>>Siaverage>Fe unused
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  8. #968
    Junior Member everdream's Avatar
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    I'm not much aware of Ni in the conscious way, but here's something from a type who use Ni in a more conscious way - ISTP; an ISTP used to describe his Ni to me as 'a sudden mental teleportation'. I think it's pretty accurate though.

  9. #969
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    With perception basically answering "yes/no" (where judgment tells us if it's "right or wrong")

    Ne yes/no (pattern of where it "could be" heading or not) determined by the objects involved themselves
    Ni yes/no (pattern of where it "could be" heading or not) determined by internal unconscious

    (Where Se is yes/no (what "is" or not) determined by whatever is physically before you, and Si is yes/no (what "is" or not) determined by whatever you remember physically experiencing).

    Both Ne and Ni "fill in" things from a "big picture", but Ne lets the object or entire environment fill in its own big picture, where Ni looks within to access a wholly separate big picture, that others likely can't even be made to see.

    Ne I find says "yes" to everything, because looking at an object, you can imagine anything for it. It's basically the judgment function or tandem-mate Si that would have to indicate an outcome is not tenable or viable.

    Ni will say "yes" or "no" (and more often says "no", especially to things Ne takes for granted) based on a hunch, gut instinct, or image that just comes up. Then, Je will be used to verify the "yes" as "right", or "no" as" wrong".
    This brings to mind an example I've used, in the debate as to whether functions are valid to begin with, and one INTJ insisting they aren't, often uses what's basically Te authority (psychometrics and "empirical" science) to debunk them. Other INTJ's accept functions, so what's the difference? One person's Ni is saying "no", and the others' are saying "yes". Both then use Te to verify their perceptions. It looked to me like this "no" had no basis, as long as Ne said "yes", and then Ti could verify it because it fits logically (and in other topics, such as religious debate, I would see parts of the opponent's arguments as often just "pulling things out of the air"), but it's Ni, behind the scenes just perceiving it as untenable not able to be held), for reasons that might not even be conscious.

    I would say, any image or interpretive thought that comes up (that isn't a past concrete experience), that locks on to a "yes" or especially "no" to a possibility, regardless of what the involved object itself would allow, is likely Ni.
    (It's "automatic-ness" is similar to Se, hence both functions in tandem fitting "Realizing Awareness", where Si and Ne are considered "Inquiring Awareness").
    Last edited by Eric B; 04-29-2018 at 05:36 PM.
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  10. #970
    Senior Member Turi's Avatar
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    My uneducated opinion is that 'Ni' doesn't exist, it's just intuition (N) and a general introverted attitude of the conscious means that it's generally 'preferred', or, oriented towards ones self as opposed to being ordinarily oriented 51% of the time or more, towards the objective stimuli in the outer world (extraversion).

    Considering intuition is merely a perception of unconscious information - the difference between 'Ni' and 'Ne' at least, insofar as they differ in terms of orientation (remember - both the same function) is that intuition in the introverted attitude perceives unconscious information from the psychic contents of the subject, ie ones own experiences, ideas, thoughts, perceptions etc - it's not actually 'ideas' or 'thoughts' so to speak, rather a 'perception' of those, arising from the unconscious - so the intuition is directed inwards, it produces perceptions related to ones own life experience and ones own subjective perspective.

    Intuition in the extraverted attitude, then, is oriented towards outer stimuli which includes feelings drawn from outer stimuli - and so this produces perceptions of non-tangible information that are related or pertaining to the external world.

    So when a person has a sudden 'aha' moment regarding something from the past, this would be intuition in the introverted attitude perceiving ones own psychic contents, when a person receives a sudden 'aha' moment regarding something current ie related to the conversation, people, things, feelings, literally anything external and 'current' then this would be intuition in the extraverted attitude.

    I believe we all possess all functions, and we obviously all have both introverted and extraverted mechanisms, which means we all do indeed possess all possible combinations of function-attitudes.

    To summarize, the 'difference' is no more than a general difference between introversion and extraversion - which is as outlined above, and this orientation is of course, due to a placement of higher value on ones own subjective self (introversion) as opposed to the outer world which is essentially devalued in comparison - and of course a reversal for extraversion, so a higher value placed on objects and content in the outer world (ALL content) than on ones subjective self - and so, essentially a devaluation of ones self in comparison to the outer-world contents.

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