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  1. #461
    Liberator Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YUI View Post
    Now compare Ni.

    Ni = optimization, e.g., playing with a multi-variable math problem to come up with best possible mix of variables that will solve that problem. Ni is internally-oriented, so you engage Ni by pulling problems down into an internal laboratory of your own making and playing out the variables against each other: You put a bunch of variables in a matrix or spider web and then shake the spider web over and over to determine the best arrangement or combination of variables. You keep that up until you've pretty much viewed all the possibilities, and you get that Ni "aha" moment where you decide on the optimal combination and pronounce the problem solved.
    The playing around with permutations of A and B that you describe seems more like Te, or Te/Se. Ni is not nearly as deliberate or consciously controlled. Remember, it is perception, not judgment. Using your example, it is more like looking over the tactical map, reading the unit rosters, reviewing all details of what is available, to become as familiar as possible with the situation. Yes, one might work through various options in one's head, but Ni will typically, suddenly reveal a close-to-optimized solution that is really "none of the above", sometimes pulling something out of left field. For instance, some small combined subset of units A+B who can be sent out in an advance sneak attack to disable a critical element of the enemy defenses.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  2. #462
    Travelling mind Oaky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oaky View Post
    To put it briefly:
    Ni tries to 'see through the facade'. Analysis of why something happens rather than how it happens. It looks for reason.
    Ne tries to see how things are played out whether it's 'how it happened' or 'how it will happen'. It looks for the connections from one thing to another.
    I want to rephrase,

    Ni tends to form in the manner an individual sees a scenario or situation. It is the abstract understanding that is subjective to the individual. This formulates the basis of perceptions and how it alters. So for example: An Ni user may see the idea of a dangerous man as a misunderstood man.

    Similarly, Si is the sensorial understanding or experience that is subjective to the individual. This will formulate in the senses and how it is altered upon the individual. So for example: An Si user may see a baby as a beautiful object that incites a pleasant subjective sensory experience.

    Ne however, is the formulation of a scenario or situation in an abstract form without the subjective alterations of how the individual sees it. This would mean that if an individual were to see an object or scenario, it formulates connections with other objects or scenarios. The perception would not be altered. So for the example of the dangerous man: An Ne user may see the dangerous man and the backstory to how the dangerous man became dangerous. (His past history, psychology, etc.) The dangerous man is still dangerous.

    Similarly, Se is without the subjective alterations of what Si is. It is pure and unchanged sensory information that the body itself is biologically exposed to feeling. It is not altered by the subjective mind. So for the example of the baby: An Se user will see the baby as it is and would more often than not (without the judging functions), experience no appeal in it.

  3. #463
    MyPeeSmellsLikeCoffee247 five sounds's Avatar
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    You hem me in -- behind and before;
    you have laid your hand upon me.
    Such knowledge is too wonderful for me,
    too lofty for me to attain.

  4. #464
    Liberator Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YUI View Post
    True. My description of Ni is actually a description of Ni-Aux; it's how an ENTJ would use their Ni.

    Matter of fact, my description of Ne is actually a description of Ne-Aux; it's how I use my Ne (I'm an INFP).

    Still, I think the examples that I provided are valid in terms of pointing out the main points of differentiation between Ne and Ni: Brainstorming and thinking outside the box by pinging on what's happening around oneself (Ne) vs. juggling a matrix of multiple variables in an internal laboratory (Ni). My use of Auxiliary versions of the two functions kind of simplifies things, for purposes of illustrating the functions.
    The functions do differ in use based on where in someone's preferences they fall. It is interesting to note these differences. Fundamentally I see Ne as divergent: brainstorming in many directions from a central point, need, goal, or question. Ni, by contrast, is convergent: pulling in related tidbits to form a single conclusion or vision.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  5. #465
    Senior Member Ene's Avatar
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    An analogy for me is: (building on what @Coriolissaid ) Two people look at an object. Let's just say a bicycle. Ne sees a wheel and generates a million possibilities about what it could be and how it could be used; it takes one idea and spits out multiple possibilities. It needs to keep options open and ideas generating to operate at peek effeciency.

    Ni looks at the bike,instinctively absorbs all of the parts in order to see the whole and formulates a single notion derived from the absorbtion of a multitude of stimuli. It takes in its surroundings, data, etc, unfiltered then syntesizes the information to gain an understanding. It needs to produce something as an end result.

    In theory (mine, of course) if an Ne dominant individual and an Ni dominant individual were working together, Ne might initially generate loads of theories, tons of ideas, then Ni would absorb them all and generate a singularity that tied them all together and the combined efforts of both individuals could theoretically create something outstanding.

    I don't think Ni is the big mystery that so many people make it out to be. it's the hunch we get, the gut feeling, the unexplained understanding. here are some thoughts. With Se it could absorb physical surroundings and accurately derive a conclusion to a natural event, a sports event or even weather pattern. It could allow a mechanic to instinctively gage what is probably wrong with a vehicle, a fighter to anticipate his opponents moves, etc.

    With Fe it could take into account the emotional state of others and possibly predict a person's reaction and even navigate socially to diffuse intense situations prior to escalation. It could allow a writer to engage a reader with characters that feel real. It might allow a counselor to absorb details about a patient that she didn't know she was absorbing and to make an accurate diagnosis.(In some individuals, it could be used to manipulate and control.)

    With Te it could assimilate, effortlessly, large amounts of external information to arrive at the most logical, efficient and effective means of achieving a goal. It could assist a doctor in making an accurate diagnosis for patients, a scientist in formulating a theory based on data that has been assimilated without real intent. So a person ends up "knowing" without recalling where they learned. Ni absorbs, sorts and formulate like a computer program that is running without the PC user consciously being aware that it's running.
    A student said to his master: "You teach me fighting, but you talk about peace. How do you reconcile the two?" The master replied: "It is better to be a warrior in a garden than to be a gardener in a war." - unknown/Chinese

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...=61024&page=14

  6. #466
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ene View Post
    An analogy for me is: (building on what @Coriolissaid ) Two people look at an object. Let's just say a bicycle. Ne sees a wheel and generates a million possibilities about what it could be and how it could be used; it takes one idea and generates multiple possibilities. It needs to keep options open and ideas generating to operate at peek effeciency.

    Ni looks at the bike,instinctively absorbs all of the parts in order to see the whole and formulates a single notion derived from the absorbtion of a multitude of stimuli. It takes in its surroundings, data, etc, unfiltered then syntesizes the information to gain an understanding. It needs to produce something as an end result.

    In theory (mine, of course) if an Ne dominant individual and an Ni dominant individual were working together, Ne might initially generate loads of theories, tons of ideas, then Ni would absorb them all and generate a singularity that tied them all together and the combined efforts of both individuals could theoretically create something outstanding.
    What function is blankness followed by sudden insight?

  7. #467
    Liberator Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Qwan View Post
    What function is blankness followed by sudden insight?
    I don't know if that describes any function well. Ni is more like meaninglessness followed by sudden insight. Sort of like dumping all the puzzle pieces onto the table in a jumble, then suddenly knowing what it all is going to look like when put together. The view isn't blank at the outset, it just doesn't have any obvious meaning or coherence.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  8. #468
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    I don't know if that describes any function well. Ni is more like meaninglessness followed by sudden insight. Sort of like dumping all the puzzle pieces onto the table in a jumble, then suddenly knowing what it all is going to look like when put together. The view isn't blank at the outset, it just doesn't have any obvious meaning or coherence.
    I relate to this I think. I get a lot of aha! moments, but unless i think really hard and reflect i won't know where they came from. usually i'll sit there and figure out where the aha! came from. Unless you're saying something completely different. then no i don't relate. well maybe because i could still relate but i wouldn't know I related because I don't know what the correct interpretation of what you said is if my interpretation is wrong.
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

  9. #469
    Senior Member Ene's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    I don't know if that describes any function well. Ni is more like meaninglessness followed by sudden insight. Sort of like dumping all the puzzle pieces onto the table in a jumble, then suddenly knowing what it all is going to look like when put together. The view isn't blank at the outset, it just doesn't have any obvious meaning or coherence.
    Yes! Great explanation.

    @Magic Qwan just now I edited and when I hit "save" my iPad seemed to freeze or be doing nothing. Yet, it was only inactive on the surface. It was actually doing more than I care to put into words. Ni is much like that. The blankness occurs when "the program" is running. Often the Ni user cant put into words whats happening. There really should be a " Please Wait" sign that appears on our foreheads when this is happening!
    A student said to his master: "You teach me fighting, but you talk about peace. How do you reconcile the two?" The master replied: "It is better to be a warrior in a garden than to be a gardener in a war." - unknown/Chinese

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...=61024&page=14

  10. #470
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    I don't know if that describes any function well. Ni is more like meaninglessness followed by sudden insight. Sort of like dumping all the puzzle pieces onto the table in a jumble, then suddenly knowing what it all is going to look like when put together. The view isn't blank at the outset, it just doesn't have any obvious meaning or coherence.
    Yes, THAT is my experience.

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