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[Jungian Cognitive Functions] Ni - What the hell is it?

Forever

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Introverted Intuition is the seeing the images that are formed from external stimuli. Some may be too faint to see others are clearer and more pronounced. It is watching a gallery of artwork you've never seen before and it can be explored through many ways by trying to understand the object in your minds eye. Your own mind knows the meaning of the subjective world inside from that viewpoint.

It is good to be patient with these impressions as they are heavy in meaning and are not meant to be taken lightly. For INJ's they should be the ones most concerned with this inner realm as this is what they should follow if they want to have a more fulfilling life.

Many of my mistakes in life has been not trying to follow this dominant function instead being tricked by my inferior extroverted sensing which wants it here and now and reeks of impatience or at least it's the culture I have now grown up in and that is partly to blame. Doesn't mean I can't change though.
 

Dreamer

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Introverted Intuition is the seeing the images that are formed from external stimuli. Some may be too faint to see others are clearer and more pronounced. It is watching a gallery of artwork you've never seen before and it can be explored through many ways by trying to understand the object in your minds eye. Your own mind knows the meaning of the subjective world inside from that viewpoint.

It is good to be patient with these impressions as they are heavy in meaning and are not meant to be taken lightly. For INJ's they should be the ones most concerned with this inner realm as this is what they should follow if they want to have a more fulfilling life.

Many of my mistakes in life has been not trying to follow this dominant function instead being tricked by my inferior extroverted sensing which wants it here and now and reeks of impatience or at least it's the culture I have now grown up in and that is partly to blame. Doesn't mean I can't change though.

What I like about the above that I bolded, is that it is very nearly how I describe my use of Si. I understand things in terms of photographs and impressions. Since it's internalized, the impressions, though taken from the outside realm, are still very much internalized and subjective.

Just as there are some intriguing similarities between Ne and Se, I am sure the same can be said between Ni and Si. The only difference being, that Ni looks beneath, and Si doesn't. In my discussions with people on the forum, I realized Ne and Se are essentially looking at the same things, but extracting data differently. I would go so far in saying the N/S divide isn't actually all that wide.

Alright shoot, well I didn't mean to go off on thought there :huh:, your wording just intrigued me.
 

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As I understand it, Ni often takes on a visual nature especially for INFJs, but this is not a defining characteristic of Ni. I believe seeing Images that are derived from external stimuli (memory) is more characteristic of Si than Ni. If it has a visual nature, Ni sees images which are not derived from external stimuli, but rather arise from the depths of the unconscious.

I don't think visual thinking is by any means exclusive to Ni or Si either, as 75% of the population uses visual thinking to some degree.
Visual thinking - Wikipedia

Research by child development theorist Linda Kreger Silverman suggests that less than 30% of the population strongly uses visual/spatial thinking, another 45% uses both visual/spatial thinking and thinking in the form of words, and 25% thinks exclusively in words. According to Kreger Silverman, of the 30% of the general population who use visual/spatial thinking, only a small percentage would use this style over and above all other forms of thinking, and can be said to be true "picture thinkers".[2]
 

Forever

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What I like about the above that I bolded, is that it is very nearly how I describe my use of Si. I understand things in terms of photographs and impressions. Since it's internalized, the impressions, though taken from the outside realm, are still very much internalized and subjective.

Just as there are some intriguing similarities between Ne and Se, I am sure the same can be said between Ni and Si. The only difference being, that Ni looks beneath, and Si doesn't. In my discussions with people on the forum, I realized Ne and Se are essentially looking at the same things, but extracting data differently. I would go so far in saying the N/S divide isn't actually all that wide.

Alright shoot, well I didn't mean to go off on thought there :huh:, your wording just intrigued me.

Introverted Sensation focuses on the archetype of the sensations it collects. That's why their stories can be so vivid, every life experience adds on to their memory making very life-like memories.
Introved Intuition focuses on the archetype of the meaning of events. Ni can recall events and may be past-oriented in that way. They take the essence or the core of those events and synthesize it into a pattern ready to predict whatever life comes at them.

Now for both Ni and Si they're introverted and will only be as accurate as much as their extroverted counterpart fills it in for them. Ni users can be very adept so long as they keep fulfilling their auxiliary functions' goals. Without it, they're clueless. The image recall is for Ni and Si users to figure out how to predict their own futures. Ni with patterns, Si with experience.

Overall, Si is better than Ni when it comes to specialization, as Si has the specifics and Ni is merely an outline. Ni balances Si out by being ready for more experiences than Si will be. Both types will have a difficult time throwing out their own libraries of knowledge if something traumatic happens or something so revolutionary happens getting them both out of sync.

Sometimes the image isn't so heavily needed as the user can re-reference their past observations several times without having to see the image and continue on. Both areas of perception are very quick and do not need to be looked at for long if doing a task already seen before.

Now here's the big takeoff:
What the hell is the image you see in your head Ni user?
I can't speak for everyone but I see something combined with real-time movement of what you can so call sensory data making pieces of abstract artwork, some more easily recognizable and others harder to describe. To describe one's vision is pretty much nonsense as it's subjective content from unconscious to the Ni user. Jung says your dreams are messages from your unconscious balancing the conscious aspect of your mind. Sometimes how the Ni user acts or receives events may be very dream-like for example:

While ignoring college for a while, I'd always hit every single red light on a crosswalk. Or I'd forget always one thing. These patterns the unconscious can not only be manifested in the psyche, but also in reality. It may be the Ni who only sees external patterns concentrated towards the individual user. Others may see it as God punishing them or the universe is at an imbalance, whatever your view, the unconscious is not something to be messed with.

To understand Ni really at its core, understand the collective unconscious and the individual unconscious. Ni is the bridge between human-viewed-like manifestations and the true reality. We as a human species have not evolved enough for our conscious aspect of ourselves to be complete and whole, therefore we as humans are unconsciously dependent on our unconscious. There are still those who fall ill who have split psyches, and psychology is still a new science waited to be fleshed out.
 

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[MENTION=19719]Forever[/MENTION] Fantastic post!
 

uumlau

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Let me explain this thread.

First, go read this link: Abstraction, intuition, and the “monad tutorial fallacy” | blog :: Brent -> [String]

You don't need to know what a monad is. That's not the point. The point is what would you need to do in order to understand a monad?

It's just like this thread. Just as someone who understands monads tries to explain them in terms of "It's easy: a monad is like a burrito!", it's just as unclear when someone says, "Ni is like <fill in the blank>". The intuition is NOT the abstraction. The intuition is a mental construct that enables YOU to understand the abstraction.

The irony with Ni is that we end up in a deep rabbit hole of intuitions about intuitions about intuitions about intuitions of Ni, none of which are Ni, per se. They can only point to it, and they can only do so in a half-assed way. As with the metaphor of the hand pointing at the moon, we become obsessed with the hand and ignore the moon.

So, what do you need to do to really understand what Ni is like, what Ni is good at? Well, try to figure out exactly what a monad is. Or perhaps start off with functors, which are its elemental building blocks. In general, any task where you have to figure out some kind of high level abstract pattern which is really difficult to explain in words, but you can learn by playing with it and using it in context. In the hand-moon metaphor, you need to actually turn your head to look at the moon and ignore the fucking hand.

If you manage to figure out what a monad or functor to such a level that you can explain it to someone else who understands them already. When you get to that level, you'll be able to share your analogy whether it's burritos or whatever, and they'll just get it, because they understand the concept you're trying to describe in the first place.

Now, imagine being able to do that without really trying and applying it to (almost) everything, even things that are plain as the nose on your face and don't need that level of abstraction: that's Ni.
 

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Conceptual pattern creep
 

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[MENTION=9310]uumlau[/MENTION] you lost me at your last paragraph. What is the "that" you're referring to? Also are you saying that Ni is simply just a cognitive function that only just explains things abstractly with ease?
 

uumlau

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[MENTION=9310]uumlau[/MENTION] you lost me at your last paragraph. What is the "that" you're referring to? Also are you saying that Ni is simply just a cognitive function that only just explains things abstractly with ease?

Explains? No it sucks at explaining.

It's great at ABSTRACTING.

"Abstracting" is the "that" I'm referring to.
 

Forever

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Explains? No it sucks at explaining.

It's great at ABSTRACTING.

"Abstracting" is the "that" I'm referring to.

Ah okay. I agree there hahaha
 

Eric B

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Look at the original roots of the words introverted and extroverted.

The reason Ni is often so misunderstood is because it's usually misapplied to the realm that Ne occurs in, but Ni is in the internal realm. It's intuition introverted. Jung called it the subject. So people actually do know its definition. What they're still wanting are the right examples, but examples won't tell you the real definition or essence of it--they break away from the fundamental cognition of what it simply means. The definition of Ni is as follows:

Ni is grasping the essence of things in thought. It focuses on the big picture while turning inward, while intro-verting. Ni types are not great at grasping the essence and nature of things going on around them, they don't have insight about reading the external situation like Ne types do. Ne on the other hand, grasps the underlying essence of things happening in the outside situation, the nature and big picture of what's occurring and being seen in the moment. This is why we ultimately use multiple functions, and this is where the confusion comes from. Similarly with Ti, we grasp the logic and rationale behind things in thought, in inward reflection and contemplation, while with Te, we grasp the logic and rationale of things as they happen in action and order, as we work with and utilize them. They're the same function "Logic," just applied to turning our mind either inwardly, or turning our mind outwardly towards things in their external form as they're happening. This is especially how Jung and the Socionicists recognize the functions. Ni is intuition of greater thoughts and insights about the big picture, while Ne attunes to the big picture of what's happening with external stimuli--it spots opportunities and potential, and intuitively grasps what's really happening behind a situation or moment, just like Se has a literal take on what's happening in a situation. We use multiple of these functions, but we tend to be most fluent in the one we prefer that type of information of that realm in, Introversion or Extroversion, and typically for instance, Ni types aren't usually that great with Ne, and Ne types aren't usually that great with focusing in on Ni (but it differs from person-to-person.) Ultimately Ni is attuned to a different topic and wavelength than Ne, and that is why it's a wholly separate function of cognitive proficiency. It does not reach out and perceive the outside with instinct, sharpness and ingenuity like Ne, but submerges deeply into visions and reflections of universal truths. Your most fluent function usually becomes most apparent to you when you either enter into deep thought (if you're an introvert), or when you enter into extroverted stimulation (if you're an extrovert.) In fact this is the best way to determine your primary function, if you're at all confused or think you use multiple functions, which ultimately we all do.

Another exemplary way of determining your primary function is to review your consistent test results. Intuitive primary types usually score the highest in intuition and are typically well-balanced in thinking and feeling, while other types, like thinkers, score their T much higher than other dichotomies. This emphasizes and suggests what their primary nature is focused on. One good example for consideration is the difference between the INxJ vs the INTP, because both these types introvert, they both go frequently into the internal realm of thought. One however, the Ni, is primarily submerged in thinking about the nature and main idea behind things, the generalities of life, while the other, the Ti, is primarily submerged in pondering the logic, rationale and workings behind things. It's a big difference. Neither Ni or Ti can view the nature or rationale of things as they're occurring outside, in real life. They think about them. This is what all introverts do, all the time. If you are properly discerning, it should start to click which function you yourself primarily attune to, and which of them you mostly attune outwardly with. While we use all the functions, your primary function is your inherent cognitive nature, it is something that purely cannot be disguised or reworded into something other than what it just is, for you. It is something you know principally above all, because it's the primary way you think about things.

If you're adhering mostly to a strict typology of preferences such as Keirsey Temperament Sorter, like J vs P, where J's intuition converges to a single decisive viewpoint, and P's intuition is open to possibilities, you're not going to be able to accurately grasp type via functions as they occur in individuals realistically. You may be utilizing a function other than the function your strict dichotomal type awards you. This is why newer theories like JCF in MBTI, and Socionics, have gained richer grounds in understanding peoples' real cognitive nature.

The extroverted realm vs the introverted realm: Extroverted functions deal with information as it comes in, while introverted functions deal with the cycle of thought.

Interesting way of looking at it.

I had been trying to stick to with defining the attitudes in terms of “individual” vs “objects” or “environment”, which I see with iNtuition, still leaves things a bit ambiguous. The problem is that in every process we're both referencing both external objects and internal impressions. And the functions work in tandem; Ni with Se and Ne with Si. So it's hard to tell which is really internal or external a lot of times. And both forms of iNtuition “fill in” data with inferences of “where it's heading”.

But perhaps those tandems, as named by Berens and Montoya, are the key. Ni reaches awareness as sudden “realizations”, while Ne has to “inquire” to make its inferences of other objects. (Even if this may appear as a sudden realization). On the S side, Se also naturally works through automatic “realizations” of whatever is before you, of course, while Si has to inquire its “storehouse” of tangible reality to filter current data through.
So both will look at an object and fill in its “possibilities” or “patterns” of, where it appears to be “going”, or “could” go. Ne will be more “open” and reference other patterns, while Ni will simply perceive “yes” or “no” (that is what I considered the elemental product of perception, where judgment is “right” or “wrong”) from an inner impression (that is not as tangibly focused as the inner “sense” of Si).

N=time orientation
Ne: I can see it's possible paths by comparing similar objects
Ni: I can see it's possible paths by going on a “gut” feeling or internal images (often omitted)
Se: it doesn't matter where it came from or is going; it's just there
Si: it doesn't matter where it could go, I've seen where it is
 

Siúil a Rúin

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There's an 80 year old lady I know a little who seems to be almost pure Ni based on Jung's descriptions. She was telling me how at different junctures in her life she just knew one chapter had ended. She had been a painter for years and quite skilled, but she said one morning after her divorce she woke up and knew that chapter of her life was over and she never painted again. Then she moved onto music and always had an inner voice directing her where to go and what to do next. She traveled the world to study with guru's and a lot of teachers who could be described as New Age. She never had a credentialed career, but moved intuitively through the subjective speculative realms. I suppose you could suggest Ne for her because she took in a lot of external information, but that inner directed voice of certainty is what she based her life and decisions on. She sounded to me a lot like Jung's description of the woman who had a metaphorical "black snake in her abdomen and needed eight session to get rid of it". That internal intuitive certitude is how Jung described Ni, and so this lady aligns with that.

However, she also mentioned that she never plans for the future. It is that very inner voice that makes it unnecessary to plan in a judgement based manner. I realize that being future oriented is fundamental to Ni, so it is confusing to me to meet someone who matches the description so closely and yet it is exactly because she matches the description that she doesn't need to plan for the future. Is there an inherent dichotomy in the assumptions of Ni? You have an inner voice that leads you but you also plan for the future? Or does inner intuition negate a need to plan? It's actually a bit confusing if you look at it too closely. Can anyone help clarify?
 

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Introverted intuition is certainly very weird and strange (this can be said for all the introverted functions of course, by virtue of them being internal). I'll give it my best shot though.

If we compare introverted intuition to introverted sensing, they are rather similar in function. Both act as the lens in which a person sees the world. Both are subjective in nature, leading Si and Ni users to all have a very personal way of seeing the world. The way in which this lens is acquired however, differs slightly. For introverted sensing, it comes from past experiences and consequences. For introverted intuition, it comes from the extrapolation of current events. The introverted sensate will draw upon the impressions that their experiences and consequences bring them. Conversely, introverted intuition generalizes such memories down to their basic components.

I suppose Ni is 'mysterious' in that its perceptions appear almost completely cerebral in nature. Hopefully I caught the gist of this function.

Thank-you [MENTION=19719]Forever[/MENTION], for pointing out my inaccuracies. I think my rectified post better expresses introverted intuition now.
 
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Forever

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Introverted intuition is certainly very weird and strange (this can be said for all the introverted functions of course, by virtue of them being internal). I'll give it my best shot though.

If we compare introverted intuition to introverted sensing, they are rather similar in function. Both act as the lens in which a person sees the world. Both are subjective in nature, leading Si and Ni users to all have a very personal way of seeing the world. The way in which this lens is acquired however, differs slightly. For introverted sensing, it comes from past experiences and consequences. For introverted intuition, it comes from the extrapolation of current events.

I suppose Ni is 'mysterious' in that its perceptions appear almost completely cerebral in nature. Hopefully I caught the gist of this function.

Not exactly, (pointed to the bold) Si's description equally applies to both function. The difference is that Si focuses on the sensation of the event whereas Ni will remember the gist of the event. So both types use past experience and consequences in totally different ways.

Some people also miss that Ni seems mysterious because they can cross contextualize an actual issue out of an event remembered stored in their head with the current event making them seem like the information had to be divine. It's really not. Once you guess what happens inside, it's just rapid pattern attribution and application.
 

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I tend to think of my Si as a collection of images or more accurately, perceptions that I have of a place, memory, sensation, whatever. And those perceptions are compounded on one another to create this inner continuum of what something is, a sort of timeline. Sometimes I get tripped up though when a past idea of something as I understood it, turns out to be different, and I feel I have to start over from scratch, and my world view of that experience must be reorganized. This happens because since I constantly jump around from idea to idea, the only way for anything to have any sort of stability is to assume that some things are constant, including my perceptions of things. When I revisit a place or idea, and it turns out to leave a different impression, it feels like what I knew of it before, is no longer contingent to my current world view. It's a rather unsettling experience when that happens too. Since Ni is sometimes described as inner visions, how would one suggest it differs from my perception of Si? I understand the two Pi functions share much common ground as does say, Ne and Se so I'm sure there is overlap. Well perhaps, what I am tapping into IS Ni?? I've always just tied this to my Si but I'm not sure.
[MENTION=9811]Coriolis[/MENTION], [MENTION=9310]uumlau[/MENTION], any thoughts?
 

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I tend to think of my Si as a collection of images or more accurately, perceptions that I have of a place, memory, sensation, whatever. And those perceptions are compounded on one another to create this inner continuum of what something is, a sort of timeline. Sometimes I get tripped up though when a past idea of something as I understood it, turns out to be different, and I feel I have to start over from scratch, and my world view of that experience must be reorganized. This happens because since I constantly jump around from idea to idea, the only way for anything to have any sort of stability is to assume that some things are constant, including my perceptions of things. When I revisit a place or idea, and it turns out to leave a different impression, it feels like what I knew of it before, is no longer contingent to my current world view. It's a rather unsettling experience when that happens too. Since Ni is sometimes described as inner visions, how would one suggest it differs from my perception of Si? I understand the two Pi functions share much common ground as does say, Ne and Se so I'm sure there is overlap. Well perhaps, what I am tapping into IS Ni?? I've always just tied this to my Si but I'm not sure.

[MENTION=9811]Coriolis[/MENTION], [MENTION=9310]uumlau[/MENTION], any thoughts?
How tangible are the images in your Si collection - by that I mean: are their contents based on the 5 senses (you remember actual sights, sounds, smells, etc.)? If so, this is a significant difference from how at least I experience Ni.

Also, how do you feel when you turn to this repository or timeline for the stability you seek (assuming you find it, and the memories are not discordant with present reality)? Is it comforting? Do you enjoy it? Do you ever look into these memories just for fun or to reminisce, rather than out of that need for stability? I cannot answer "yes" to most of these. I do look readily to the past for facts (where's my punch recipe from last Christmas?), but as I have mentioned elsewhere, I don't turn to my personal continuum of images for much of anything else, and can find it unsettling to peruse it, whether the images align well with today or not.
 

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How tangible are the images in your Si collection - by that I mean: are their contents based on the 5 senses (you remember actual sights, sounds, smells, etc.)? If so, this is a significant difference from how at least I experience Ni.

Also, how do you feel when you turn to this repository or timeline for the stability you seek (assuming you find it, and the memories are not discordant with present reality)? Is it comforting? Do you enjoy it? Do you ever look into these memories just for fun or to reminisce, rather than out of that need for stability? I cannot answer "yes" to most of these. I do look readily to the past for facts (where's my punch recipe from last Christmas?), but as I have mentioned elsewhere, I don't turn to my personal continuum of images for much of anything else, and can find it unsettling to peruse it, whether the images align well with today or not.

Mmm, I would say there is some personal attachment to the images, but nothing sensory based. If anything, I would say there is an emotional attachment left in these perceptions, whether positive or negative. When I have these unsettling moments, (I will give you an example of what exactly it's like for me and when I experience them), so the one that stood out to me in recent memory is when I went in for the job interview for my current job. The place was new, it was unfamiliar. I felt anxiety, tense, in that situation. I suppose you could say some sensations yes. But once I started working there and began familiarizing myself with the office, the environment which initially seemed foreign and left me feeling out of place, soon became a new "home" for me, a place of comfort with good friends and an overall positive environment. I think typically, this wouldn't unsettle anyone, but it's because that initial impression left such a strong experience for me, that even to this day, the initial and the current sentiment of the same place clash and it doesn't make much sense. I can logically make sense of it, but emotionally speaking, the stability is found in how I feel in a given situation, that shouldn't change, and yet it has.

As I type this out...I'm thinking that perhaps what I speak of isn't even Si, but merely a new perspective on Fi and its reaches. I do have a collection of perceptions, they are rather foggy and not defined at all, but there is a personal attachment to those images. Perhaps this is a physical manifestation of Fi in its inner workings. Speaking of physical manifestations, I mentioned to a few members before that I have this spatial understanding of my emotions, like a literal place I could draw out for you. Interesting. Sorry, just sort of brainstorming and fueling my own thoughts as I type.
 

uumlau

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Mmm, I would say there is some personal attachment to the images, but nothing sensory based. If anything, I would say there is an emotional attachment left in these perceptions, whether positive or negative. When I have these unsettling moments, (I will give you an example of what exactly it's like for me and when I experience them), so the one that stood out to me in recent memory is when I went in for the job interview for my current job. The place was new, it was unfamiliar. I felt anxiety, tense, in that situation. I suppose you could say some sensations yes. But once I started working there and began familiarizing myself with the office, the environment which initially seemed foreign and left me feeling out of place, soon became a new "home" for me, a place of comfort with good friends and an overall positive environment. I think typically, this wouldn't unsettle anyone, but it's because that initial impression left such a strong experience for me, that even to this day, the initial and the current sentiment of the same place clash and it doesn't make much sense. I can logically make sense of it, but emotionally speaking, the stability is found in how I feel in a given situation, that shouldn't change, and yet it has.

As I type this out...I'm thinking that perhaps what I speak of isn't even Si, but merely a new perspective on Fi and its reaches. I do have a collection of perceptions, they are rather foggy and not defined at all, but there is a personal attachment to those images. Perhaps this is a physical manifestation of Fi in its inner workings. Speaking of physical manifestations, I mentioned to a few members before that I have this spatial understanding of my emotions, like a literal place I could draw out for you. Interesting. Sorry, just sort of brainstorming and fueling my own thoughts as I type.

I've heard many xNFPs talk about their "inner emotional landscape". xSFPs, not so much. So I suspect that landscape is an Si thing. There's kind of an internal rigidity there that doesn't seem to exist in Ni types.
 
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