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Changes in your MBTI and Enneagram types

Speed Gavroche

Whisky Old & Women Young
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Oct 20, 2008
Messages
5,152
MBTI Type
EsTP
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6w7
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sx/sp
I think we can change MBTI type but we can't change enneatype. I have always been a 6, but I behave like a very large variety of types. I'm wondering if I was not an ENTP as a kid. It seem that I've always been a sort of ENTP/ISTP hybrid, with true INTP, ESTP and IxFP leanings.
 

animenagai

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No; I believe that if you understand the cognitive basis of MBTI rather than drivel tests then you will understand your 'lifelong type'. This in my view would only change with a mental breakdown and personality reconstruction.

I'm glad that this has come up, this sort of thing is exactly why I started this thread. Care to explain said 'cognitive' basis?
 

Thalassa

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ISFP
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sx
I'm glad that this has come up, this sort of thing is exactly why I started this thread. Care to explain said 'cognitive' basis?

Cognitive basis is like what I touched on in my post...how I am definitely an ENFP because of my cognitive function preferences...(Fi vs. Fe, Te vs. Ti) and those particular functions are quite important because they are your "judging" functions...a person's world view is strongly shaped by whether they prefer Fi and Te or Fe and Ti, and it can cause absurd problems sometimes in communication.

I simply cannot be INFJ on a cognitive basis.
 

InvisibleJim

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Cognitive basis is like what I touched on in my post...how I am definitely an ENFP because of my cognitive function preferences...(Fi vs. Fe, Te vs. Ti) and those particular functions are quite important because they are your "judging" functions...a person's world view is strongly shaped by whether they prefer Fi and Te or Fe and Ti, and it can cause absurd problems sometimes in communication.

I simply cannot be INFJ on a cognitive basis.

Exactly, being INTJ does not mean I am

Introvered - hides in a cave
Intuitive - thinks creatively
Thinking - uses rationality
Judging - likes things settled.

When testing people with the common MBTI tests the accuracy is pretty crap because of how it is believed that you can derive a type based upon individuals thoughts about what they are. Not really true, its about a cognitive bias in how they process between how their concious mind works and their sensory inputs and outputs relate to the environment.

I am INTJ because I can self identify that I am an introverted intuitive dominant supported by extroverted thinking to reach conclusions and introverted feeling for relief and support. I aspire to properly integrating extroverted sensing. I can go back to being younger and see the traits these would exhibit even from a very young age until today; thus I do not believe my type has changed.
 

Aleksei

Yeah, I can fly.
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ENTJ
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7w6
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sx/sp
I disagree with those who say you can't change type. Why not? After giving it a bit of thought, I was probably XNXP as a child. I'm not so sure about my I and E. I was more adventurous than I was contemplative, whereas now it's the other way around.
If you felt generically NP as a child, it is possible that you were an undeveloped ENTP and are now a reserved ENTP rather than INTP, or simply that your Ti developed past your Ne.

I really don't see any reason someone can't change type. Someone's environment can cause them to change the way they think, and sometimes it can just happen naturally. An ISFJ may one day feel they are tired of living a settled, progressive life and feel like just having fun, so they turn into an ESFP and forget all there troubles.
There's no reason an ISFJ would prefer a settled, progressive life to begin with -- Si does not mean robotic. If an Si user is raised in a very chaotic environment, they will be scattered and chaotic themselves. A better analogy would be that an ISFJ would feel like the voice of experience has failed them, and start paying more attention to their present environment, which might lead to becoming either ESFP, or ESTP.
 

OrangeAppled

Sugar Hiccup
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I disagree with those who say you can't change type. Why not? After giving it a bit of thought, I was probably XNXP as a child. I'm not so sure about my I and E. I was more adventurous than I was contemplative, whereas now it's the other way around. I really don't see any reason someone can't change type. Someone's environment can cause them to change the way they think, and sometimes it can just happen naturally. An ISFJ may one day feel they are tired of living a settled, progressive life and feel like just having fun, so they turn into an ESFP and forget all there troubles. It is unlikely this would ever happen instantaneously, except perhaps in case of a traumatic event, but over time I think it is entirely possible to change how you judge and percieve.

This is describing behavior. Behavior & cognition are not the same thing. Cognition can lead to patterns of similar behavior in types, but a lot of it amounts to stereotypes. Most people digress from the prescribed behavior for a type pretty frequently, which is why people talk about their shadow popping up, or being in a dom-tert loop, etc. They are seeking to explain behavior that contradicts their general character from a cognitive function standpoint (whether or not these ideas hold water...). The INFP who is blunt and bossy and demanding may have their "ESTJ business suit" on - their inferior functions are popping up and they've visibly taken on the negative traits of an ESTJ. However, FeNi is still at the wheel - SiTe would not have popped up if some FiNe thought process didn't determine it was necessary to access that thinking.

However, cognition is not a conscious preference. It's a preference meaning orientation - your brain is pretty much going to automatically default to its preferred way of thinking; under stress this can include your inferior functions which can make you seem very different. What you can end up with are two people displaying similar behavior for very different reasons. That ISFJ who wants to party all the time may have their ENTP party hat on ;). Believe it or not, the ISFJ who likes to socialize & entertain, but is still responsible, has likely developed Fe better. The aux function "parents" the dominant one, which I take to mean helps it grow to maturity, so a person becomes more well-rounded. My ISFJ mom seems ESFJ-ish at times because her Fe is strongly apparent in social situations, although Si is still quite clearly her dominant way of thinking.

The likelihood of changing the orientation of your brain seems slim to none; I think Jung asserted that cognitive function is pretty much innate.

Another issue is, MBTI just seeks to indicate cognitive function, which is not the full spectrum of personality. Personality is quite complex. For instance, enneagram delves into the subconscious emotional motivations of a person and how it affects their self-image & in-turn, their personality. Then of course there is culture, gender, life experience, etc.
 

animenagai

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4w3
Cognitive basis is like what I touched on in my post...how I am definitely an ENFP because of my cognitive function preferences...(Fi vs. Fe, Te vs. Ti) and those particular functions are quite important because they are your "judging" functions...a person's world view is strongly shaped by whether they prefer Fi and Te or Fe and Ti, and it can cause absurd problems sometimes in communication.

I simply cannot be INFJ on a cognitive basis.

Oh so you guys are just talking about functions? I expected more to be honest (brain activity or whatnot). I fully agree that simple behavioral factors should not set your type but I can tell you one thing, cognitive functions can change their strengths and priorities a lot more than you think.

As a child, I was Fi dominant and it was obvious. I had a good Ne too, but my Ne was developed more as social survival function. Fi based topics were the primary focus, not Ne. It wasn't until I immigrated that my Ne really came alive. I didn't have enough friends so I tried using my Ne as a cousin of Fe, everyone likes a joker. At home, I played with my sister a lot - she's 6 years younger than I am. What we played were role play games, once again something very Ne. Keep in mind that I was already in my 4th year of high school by then.

I am confident that my cognitive functions changed during this big change in my life. I'm not a behaviorist lol and I'm not making behaviorist claims. My father also experienced similar changes. As a child, he was a P and his Te was fairly weak. It was not until he had big rewards with hard work through work that he developed his Te. He can't put it into words but anyone who knows my father would know that he's always doing something. He has that Te checklist mentality and I am sure that it is one of his strongest functions. He now identifies as an INTJ. I think you guys are mistaking me for a guy who thinks you can change types once every week given your hobbies, lifestyle etc. I'm not. I believe that your type is dictated by your cognitive functions and that the order of your functions are not in constant flux. However, that does not mean that they can't change and given big changes in your life, big changes in your mentality will happen.
 

skylights

i love
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INFP
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animenagai said:
However, that does not mean that they can't change and given big changes in your life, big changes in your mentality will happen.

i agree with you, though i wonder if often we think that we used to be some type and simply didn't recognize that it was reasonable function use for our current type.

i experienced the same perception that i was Fi dom when i was younger, but, after all, Fi is Judging, internal, and, for me, the "supportive parent", which means it will be fairly visible. on the other hand, sometimes it can be easy to overlook your dom if it's a Perceiving function because it's more like an "ocean" that you swim in. i never realized the ridiculous extent to which i was N (though it always was my strongest letter in testing) until i learned what Ne was and what you see with it. Fi seems more prominent through my childhood, however, because i wrestled with it more. Ne was just... well, like swimming. it was simple and natural. i thought everyone thought like that.

so while i can understand someone who had amnesia or a mental breakdown of sorts having the possibility of restructuring (though i still doubt they'd move far from their type), i would venture to guess that for most people who think they've changed types, especially since childhood, it could be useful to look more closely at function order and see if perhaps one of the functions was most visible for whatever reason, and later moved to the background.

as far as the connection between neurology and type... well, personally i've gotta leave that to the neurologists :shrug: i would love to see it studied, though.
 

Mr. Sherlock Holmes

Consulting Detective
Joined
Aug 10, 2010
Messages
1,450
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JiNe
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5W4
If you felt generically NP as a child, it is possible that you were an undeveloped ENTP and are now a reserved ENTP rather than INTP, or simply that your Ti developed past your Ne.

Huh? If my Ti is higher than my Ne it makes me an INTP. The biggest difference between us is our Ti/Ne preference. You said you may have been INXP as a child, which is not very close to ESTJ. It's probably more likely that you're type will change to one with the same functions in a different order, but I still reckon it's possible.
 

Mr. Sherlock Holmes

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There's no reason an ISFJ would prefer a settled, progressive life to begin with -- Si does not mean robotic. If an Si user is raised in a very chaotic environment, they will be scattered and chaotic themselves. A better analogy would be that an ISFJ would feel like the voice of experience has failed them, and start paying more attention to their present environment, which might lead to becoming either ESFP, or ESTP.

Well you know what I mean. I wasn't saying they're robotic, I guess I used bad terminology. But your example works.
 

Mr. Sherlock Holmes

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However, cognition is not a conscious preference. It's a preference meaning orientation - your brain is pretty much going to automatically default to its preferred way of thinking; under stress this can include your inferior functions which can make you seem very different. What you can end up with are two people displaying similar behavior for very different reasons. That ISFJ who wants to party all the time may have their ENTP party hat on ;). Believe it or not, the ISFJ who likes to socialize & entertain, but is still responsible, has likely developed Fe better. The aux function "parents" the dominant one, which I take to mean helps it grow to maturity, so a person becomes more well-rounded. My ISFJ mom seems ESFJ-ish at times because her Fe is strongly apparent in social situations, although Si is still quite clearly her dominant way of thinking.

The likelihood of changing the orientation of your brain seems slim to none; I think Jung asserted that cognitive function is pretty much innate.

I know what you mean but that's not quite what I meant. I think sometimes you just look at your direction in life and decide that it no longer fits you. It could just be your functions slowly getting stronger/weaker and your type just shifts and things don't fit anymore. In this case, the ISFJ finds that being responsible and future orientated no longer feels right and is not fulfilling them, so they just forget about their future and go have fun all the time, presumably just sticking with whatever job they currently have or maybe moving to something that now suits them better. Or conversely an ESFP who decides they need to get their act into gear and can't handle all the partying anymore and decide to think ahead and so on...

You know what I mean? I mean for MOST people they probably stay the same with perhaps a slight shift, but I don't think your personality is set entirely in stone. And I think this can be natural as well as forced, as even though one type CAN act like another in order to fit in, I think that sometimes enough persuasion can make it their natural state, and so when their lifestyle changes again, they aren't the same person they were before, and it's evident.

But if anyone has any information on studies relating to this, I would enjoy reading them.
 

Polaris

AKA Nunki
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Your type is only a label you apply to your self-image, and both your self-image and the categories you throw it under can undergo change. Anyone who has asked themselves whether their type is static has already tacitly admitted this, because in order to entertain the question in the first place, "yes" has to be a possibility under consideration, the reason being that this possibility is presumed in the question itself. After answering that question, a person may then decide that the answer is "no" and forget all about the possibility of it being "yes," but the moment they enter a discussion like this and try to prove their case, that possibility once again rears its head, in the manner already described.

Anyway, I don't think that my type has ever changed. From the earliest age I can remember, I was an Ni-dom: very mystical as a young person, with an almost seer-like quality, and prone to see myself as psychic or somehow in tune with the hidden. I can also see a great deal of the interpersonal emotionality and perfectionism that you get with Fe, although that side of me has fallen to the wayside in recent years, thanks to a mix of depression and being isolated from society.

In spite of that, I could see myself scoring as other types of NFs when I was younger. As a teenager, I wanted to see myself as outgoing and self-confident, and I hated it when people called me quiet. I also had very few of the stereotypical characteristics of a J; I was woefully irresponsible, had no particular love for plans, and could easily out-mess a hurricane. The only way in which my J would have been obvious was in terms of my demeanor and dealings with people, which are things that tests don't usually take account of when measuring J.
 

KDude

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Probably like many here, I think I've forced myself to be more extroverted at times (sort of subconsciously/out of necessity.. thinking it was required of me).

In private, I like to entertain the future, ideals.. and I would consider myself well rounded and sensitive. Yet out in the "real world", it's possible to drop some of that. One day, I'm kind to a bum, the next day I'm grumbling about the sight of him. One day, I'm trying to defuse a situation and people think of me as "too kind". The next, I cut to the chase and get pretty "efficient" with people. I haven't gotten into a fight in years, but I'm under the impression that I deal with them easier than some I*F*'s (not to stereotype). I think I'm Fe-Ti, the more I consider it.

Enneagram wise, I type as 4 or 6 (4 more often). Sometimes 9. Sometimes I think I'm just frustrated when I'm in 4 mode, and wonder if it's really me. Ideally, I'd like to be a 9, but that'd be a stretch.
 

OrangeAppled

Sugar Hiccup
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i agree with you, though i wonder if often we think that we used to be some type and simply didn't recognize that it was reasonable function use for our current type.

i experienced the same perception that i was Fi dom when i was younger, but, after all, Fi is Judging, internal, and, for me, the "supportive parent", which means it will be fairly visible. on the other hand, sometimes it can be easy to overlook your dom if it's a Perceiving function because it's more like an "ocean" that you swim in. i never realized the ridiculous extent to which i was N (though it always was my strongest letter in testing) until i learned what Ne was and what you see with it. Fi seems more prominent through my childhood, however, because i wrestled with it more. Ne was just... well, like swimming. it was simple and natural. i thought everyone thought like that.

so while i can understand someone who had amnesia or a mental breakdown of sorts having the possibility of restructuring (though i still doubt they'd move far from their type), i would venture to guess that for most people who think they've changed types, especially since childhood, it could be useful to look more closely at function order and see if perhaps one of the functions was most visible for whatever reason, and later moved to the background.

as far as the connection between neurology and type... well, personally i've gotta leave that to the neurologists :shrug: i would love to see it studied, though.

I agree. As a child, my imaginative side was what I was most aware of. I was so one with my feelings that they were just ME. My concern was with creative expression, with little interest in relationships. Really, Ne was "parenting" Fi to take baby steps to be able to form relationships & values - taking in info and learning how to express.

It was not until my late teens that I began to develop an attitude more stereotypically reflective of Fi - displaying compassion & empathy, actually caring about people instead of just exploring ideas. Being aware of values that transcended myself & my own needs. It was really Ne developing, not my Fi - it developed enough to give my Fi more perspective, to make it more visible.
 

Idontcare

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I was definitely an INTP before I had to become social. I still have remanence of that personality left in me.
 

Random Ness

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Aug 17, 2010
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Sometimes I wonder if I was an enneagram 1 when I was a child just because I was under heavy conservative, absolutist Christianity influence. That kind of Christianity corresponds well with the description of an unhealthy enneagram 1.

I used to think I was an ISFJ, but that's just because I didn't get N vs. S. I don't think I was ever actually an ISFJ.
 

redacted

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Nov 28, 2007
Messages
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Just curious.

1. Do you think that you were ever (genuinely) another MBTI type?

2. Do you ever think that you were ever another enneagram type?

No. Well, not since I had a discernible personality at least.

I keep getting it wrong, though. :(

But it's only because I can't figure out which types are the best descriptions.
 

Orangey

Blah
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No for both. I was just simply wrong and had a misguided understanding of myself and the systems.
 

thexjib

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Just curious.

1. Do you think that you were ever (genuinely) another MBTI type?

2. Do you ever think that you were ever another enneagram type?

MBTI... No. I have always been and identify strongly as an INTP however until recently I thought I was a type 5 Enneagram based on shitty online tests and no understanding of the system. Until the past months or so I had never given the Enneagram much serious thought...
 

ITDoghouse

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Dec 31, 2010
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INFP
INFP -> major depression/breakdown in personality -> reconstruction -> INTP.

I strongly feel that Ive changed from an INTP to an INFP after a several years bout of depression. Ar you saying this happened to you too?
 
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