Intuitives and Indolence

[Venom]

Indolence:

Noun
indolence (plural indolences)
Habitual laziness or sloth.
born with an incurable indolence of mind and body
Indolence and vacillation were legibly impressed on his appearance and expression.

Intuitiveness:

in·tu·i·tive/inˈto͞oitiv/Adjective
1. Using or based on what one feels to be true even without conscious reasoning; instinctive.

This isn't a thread about "N's are lazy in comparison to S's" (though maybe we are!). This is about how I feel most S's CANT HELP but FEEL/THINK that N's are lazy.

<> I specifically prefer the word "indolent", because to me it evokes the "physical" sense of laziness. Sure, an INTP who learns physics on his own time might not sound lazy, but an INTP who is so indolent that he barely takes of himself sure sounds lazy.

<> ENFJ talks to ESFJ about "how the world works". They'll both agree that "ya....xyz is true now...its the only way possible these days". The ENFJ will think, "who cares if its true! I dont have to like it, and i refuse to just plow through it". The ESFJ will find the ENFJ to indolent and think, "just man up and DO IT".

<> The whole "idea" of being intuitive sort of "enforces" laziness. You are literally taking mental short cuts! To the N's, we are just smart enough to see that A often leads to D, so why bother dealing with B and C? The S's think we're indolent for not going through the whole stupid progression of A B C D.

<> Many N's try to focus on the "bigger things" in life. S's often are first concerned with their physical comfort. Thus, could we see S's blaming N's as lazy, and N's blaming S's as "productivists"?


Any thoughts on this?

 

[FDG]

Yeah, it's absolutely true. I definitely appear quite lazy when compared to most S types, even if I may work more than them, play more sports, etc. they're just more focussed on...always...doing...something, kind of?

 

[nolla]

they're just more focussed on...always...doing...something, kind of?

Yeah... Weird enough, when I point out to them what I did during the last month or last year, it is often obvious for the both of us that I actually do more than they from that point of view. I have actually more results to show. They just need to be doing something in a way that makes me think they are just trying to utilize all the time they have with tasks that are aimed at a certain concrete objectives. So, time-wise they do more than me.

 

[Trentham]

I encounter this phenomenon on a daily basis at work (I'm an analyst). I'm notorious around the office for skipping steps I find unnecessary and for not being more diligent in "showing my work." Truthfully my results are no less accurate than my STJ contemporaries, but I appear lazier because I don't feel the need to flesh out every single minute detail.

 

[Venom]

I encounter this phenomenon on a daily basis at work (I'm an analyst). I'm notorious around the office for skipping steps I find unnecessary and for not being more diligent in "showing my work." Truthfully my results are no less accurate than my STJ contemporaries, but I appear lazier because I don't feel the need to flesh out every single minute detail.

I think this might be why so many S's dont take MBTI seriously.

XSXX adult talking to an XNXX kid:
"well yes, of course those bigger things matter, and of course as you get older you gain that intuition, but at your age...it just comes off as laziness!"

XSXX kid talking about an XNXX adult:
"I think Mr XNXX is just lazy. I dont think he actually believes all that deeper meaning and big picture bs...at least thats what my SJ mother says whenever I mention what Mr XNXX tells me!"

 

[Trentham]

Nothing bores an S more than having nothing to "do."

Nothing bores an N more than having to "do" something they feel is unneccessary or irrelevant.

 

[stellar renegade]

I've thought that about a few Ns, but I've known way more who do work pretty well. In fact, I might even be lazier than them. At least from an SJ perspective. I'm always finding something to play with, and my hands are constantly itching to do something. Even when I'm searching for something on Google and the search cues come up, I know I could just scroll down to the search terms I want, and sometimes I do because I love shortcuts too, but sometimes my fingers are just itching to type and I want to type the whole string of terms out. haha.

Same way with this group I used to meet up with, where we'd play instruments and sing songs, and before we would usually talk about deep subjects, but after awhile I'd get so tired of the talking and I'd just pick up a drum and the group leader would say, "I think Justin's ready to start..." hah.

My ISFJ girlfriend certainly thinks I'm lazy, and I am, under a certain definition. But not in that I'm not doing anything. It's usually because I'm doing too many "other" things that are too much like play.

Sometimes Ns seem to be careless about tangible concerns, though, no matter how immediate. I went out with an ENFP who seemed to be pretty lazy about her bank account. I was trying to help her bail herself out so she didn't go under but she just seemed to have this, "Oh well" attitude about it. It puzzled me.

 

[Chloe]

I think laziness is defined wrongly. It's defined by Ss.

In definition it should be OR instead of AND.

born with an incurable indolence of mind OR body

99,99% people consider me lazy, but I am lazy for house work like cleaning and washing laundrey, while my sister who is ESTJ is lazy about reading something new, but it's only that her laziness is acceptable and mine isnt.

Also, N is all about change just not on spot immediate change. It appears more lazy but I dislike the word because it's SJ word.. so yeah of course Ns are indolent/lazy in Ss views and definition.

It reminds me of "you cant be an artist, you should get a real job" thing.

 

[Snuggletron]

Nothing bores an S more than having nothing to "do."

Nothing bores an N more than having to "do" something they feel is unneccessary or irrelevant.

you have the right idea, although of course it's not always an exclusive rule. Since Sensors are usually more sequential people, they seem to want to gather up all the parts. The Ns might miss stuff when they skip the parts the S's pick up, but they're probably better at improvising when they do miss things.

It's hard to say for me though, I'm a pretty lazy person, but I sometimes think there are pieces of fat to be cut from certain activities people insist on running through with. I'll take a risk in leaving minor procedures and details out when I can rig just as good results if the pay off is maximum fun-time efficiency

Even when I'm searching for something on Google and the search cues come up, I know I could just scroll down to the search terms I want, and sometimes I do because I love shortcuts too, but sometimes my fingers are just itching to type and I want to type the whole string of terms out. haha.

I'll do this too, I just like typing the stuff out even though google will just give me the best suggestions. I just think it's annoying sometimes when a search engine cuts me off mid sentence and thinks it knows what I wanna search for... >:/

 

[stellar renegade]

It reminds me of "you cant be an artist, you should get a real job" thing.

Psh, I'm about to prove everyone wrong on that with this next career move. Also, I'm getting my degree at the Art Institute.

you have the right idea, although of course it's not always an exclusive rule. Since Sensors are usually more sequential people, they seem to want to gather up all the parts. The Ns might miss stuff when they skip the parts the S's pick up, but they're probably better at improvising when they do miss things.

Huh? SPs are masters of improvisation. I'm not a sequential person at all, I'm spontaneous. SJs are the masters of sequence.

It's hard to say for me though, I'm a pretty lazy person, but I sometimes think there are pieces of fat to be cut from certain activities people insist on running through with. I'll take a risk in leaving minor procedures and details out when I can rig just as good results if the pay off is maximum fun-time efficiency

That's me. Are you an SP, too?

I'll do this too, I just like typing the stuff out even though google will just give me the best suggestions. I just think it's annoying sometimes when a search engine cuts me off mid sentence and thinks it knows what I wanna search for... >:/

Guess so.

 

[Snuggletron]

Huh? SPs are masters of improvisation. I'm not a sequential person at all, I'm spontaneous. SJs are the masters of sequence.

Yeah, SJs are more of the tireless sequence-oriented thinkers and doers. SPs seem to be prone to become bored of this, perceiving is of course associated with spontaneity, which mimics the N-associated skipping of steps. This isn't a hard science though, I have no doubt you are a more worldly-thinker (big picture) even though that is supposedly an N trait.

That's me. Are you an SP, too?

hah, I'm an NP, but very SP in my dealings with certain things

I think our commonality here is lack of Si presence, which is a very sequential function. Si is great and all, but sometimes it just overworks itself with all of its standard protocols. Why not skip excess work if it can be skipped and maximize fun-time???

sometimes I skip too much work though and get in trouble. Mainly by SJs.

 

[Trentham]

Since Sensors are usually more sequential people, they seem to want to gather up all the parts. The Ns might miss stuff when they skip the parts the S's pick up, but they're probably better at improvising when they do miss things.

Yup, well said.

 

[Synapse]

Shouldn't being P be more indolent than N? I thought P was procrastination for perceptive laziness.

 

[Randomnity]

I don't think anyone could say that N is a stronger predictor than P (right?). For NJ vs SJ, you're probably right. The stereotypical SJ is the opposite of lazy. SP vs. NP, I don't know. Sure, we're always doing SOMEthing, but is it the thing we need to do? Not usually, in my case.

I don't think being lazy is something to be proud of, but I can't imagine the "average" N is more lazy than me....particularly NJs.

 

[entropie]

It's a very good topic and worth a lot of thought !

That's all I got, cause I dont understand it myself.

Indolence ! I'll kill you !

 

[guesswho]

It reminds me of "you cant be an artist, you should get a real job" thing.

you can't be a psychologist. get a real job.

fuck real jobs.

 

[Snuggletron]

you should get a real(ly fucking monotonous and boring but financially practical albeit self-repressing and sooner-or-later self-loathing) job.

 

[FDG]

My ISFJ girlfriend certainly thinks I'm lazy, and I am, under a certain definition. But not in that I'm not doing anything. It's usually because I'm doing too many "other" things that are too much like play.

My ISFJ girlfriend is somewhat undecided as far as thinking if I'm lazy or not. Certainly I work more intensely than her, however I usually work less hours (self-employed). Certainly I always attend lectures, but I don't love to study alone secluded in my room. I also really dislike chores, but I cycle around 10'000 kms a year, which makes me really un-lazy. So, bottom line, I think everyone is and isn't lazy. SJs, having intuition as what socionics would call their "point of least resistance", are much less able to immediately-unconsciously understand other people's points of view, so they'll immediately label as "lazy" whatever doesn't fall in their peculiar patterns of supposed work.

 

[Mr. Sherlock Holmes]

NPs, particularly INPs, are lazy. NJs are some of the hardest working people evah!

 

[skylights]

general laziness

lazy
1. NP: INFP, INTP, ENFP, ENTP
2. SP: ISFP, ISTP, ESFP, ESTP
3. NJ: INFJ, INTJ, ENFJ, ENTJ
4. SJ: ISFJ, ISTJ, ESFJ, ESTJ
not lazy