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J & P

targobelle

~*taaa raaa raaa boom*~
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
2,584
MBTI Type
enfp
I ramble a bit before making a point and quantifying a subject ;)


So I have been thinking today, scary thought, thinking firstly about the direction of my life and what I need to do. And while thinking about that I started thinking about getting a job that gets me out of the house, that forces a schedule and some order into my life. I also went back to the gym today after a long break and also how that would again provide order and a schedule.

Here I am a P,, very very very much a P, I lack discipline to organize and structure my life, yet when I have it there tends to be a calmness and a peace in me. So I have to wonder what that means. I wonder if a P needs a J and vice versa? I wonder if other P types seek order in their chaotic life? I wonder if they too are like me and lack the discipline to obtain it? Is this odd? Odd that I am very happy being wild and spontaneous, very happy with my chaos and clutter YET there is this other part of me that finds peace in order, peace in structure and having a direction. And gosh darnit if I didn't marry a P ....

what do you think this says about me? do you think this is generally true? or am i just oddly unique?

thoughts?

discussions?

ideas?

thanks
 
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tovlo

New member
Joined
May 2, 2007
Messages
248
MBTI Type
INFJ
I ramble a bit before making a point and quantifying a subject ;)


So I have been thinking today, scary thought, thinking firstly about the direction of my life and what I need to do. And while thinking about that I started thinking about getting a job that gets me out of the house, that forces a schedule and some order into my life. I also went back to the gym today after a long break and also how that would again provide order and a schedule.

Here I am a P,, very very very much a P, I lack discipline to organize and structure my life, yet when I have it there tends to be a calmness and a peace in me. So I have to wonder what that means. I wonder if a P needs a J and vice versa? I wonder if other P types seek order in their chaotic life? I wonder if they too are like me and lack the discipline to obtain it? Is this odd? Odd that I am very happy being wild and spontaneous, very happy with my chaos and clutter YET there is this other part of me that finds peace in order, peace in structure and having a direction. And gosh darnit if I didn't marry a P ....

what do you think this says about me? do you think this is generally true? or am i just oddly unique?

thoughts?

discussions?

ideas?

thanks

I think that some might enjoy experiencing in relationship with another the qualities they personally feel they lack. Whether someone might enjoy that or not I think depends on far more than their 4 letter MBTI type. A few things I can think of related to MBTI that might affect this could be how strongly developed their own non-dominant functions are and also perhaps what kind experience with other types their life experience has brought them. I think there are likely multitudes of other factors outside of MBTI that could affect this preference in a person as well.
 

Tigerlily

unscannable
Joined
Jun 21, 2007
Messages
5,942
MBTI Type
TIGR
Enneagram
3w4
thoughts?

discussions?

ideas?

thanks
Interesting thoughts you're having. I feel the same way about being J sometimes. I can get very bitchy when things are exactly how I want them to be. I solved this problem a few months ago by taking lexapro :D

One of my favorite shows to watch is called Clean House. It's about a person or family who have ridiculously cluttered homes. So this team swoop in and organize them (my favorite part, hehe) and all is well at least for the time being. I know I'm going somewhere with this (It's 4am and I have a blasted cold/sore throat), what I mean is that anyone can get organized! Make a list of things you want to do. Not a mental list, actually write them down and check off each thing as it gets done!

You mentioned that when you are getting things done you experience a sense of calmness. I want to elaborate on that. We both have kids and husbands. We can't control everything they do and cleaning up after everyone can be very frustrating. It really is never ending. When my house is tidy I feel as though my life is controlled even if there's still some chaos (everyday drama with the kids, etc. )surrounding me.

Tara, you can't change who you are completely and why should you, you're a wonderful person! :yes: Don't beat yourself up over things. Stay at home moms all get the blahs now and then. It can be a thankless job but we'll survive. :) Getting back to the gym and considering getting a part time job is a great way to start. If we lived closer, I'd love to go with you! :)

Anyway :hug: and don't worry too much about changing beautiful you. And make that list! :p
 
Last edited:

FFF

Fight For Freedom
Joined
Apr 24, 2007
Messages
691
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
9
Here I am a P,, very very very much a P, I lack discipline to organize and structure my life, yet when I have it there tends to be a calmness and a peace in me. So I have to wonder what that means. I wonder if a P needs a J and vice versa? I wonder if other P types seek order in their chaotic life? I wonder if they too are like me and lack the discipline to obtain it? Is this odd? Odd that I am very happy being wild and spontaneous, very happy with my chaos and clutter YET there is this other part of me that finds peace in order, peace in structure and having a direction. And gosh darnit if I didn't marry a P ....

As much as I like P types, if I marry one, I'm not sure if we can keep everything from going from going to hell, and then we'll end as bums on the side of the road begging for money. Maybe we'll just need some outside support from friends and family to get things done. If we can both keep a job and if someone remembers to pay the bills, I guess most things will turn out okay.
 

Athenian200

Protocol Droid
Joined
Jul 1, 2007
Messages
8,828
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
4w5
So I have been thinking today, scary thought, thinking firstly about the direction of my life and what I need to do. And while thinking about that I started thinking about getting a job that gets me out of the house, that forces a schedule and some order into my life. I also went back to the gym today after a long break and also how that would again provide order and a schedule.

Here I am a P,, very very very much a P, I lack discipline to organize and structure my life, yet when I have it there tends to be a calmness and a peace in me. So I have to wonder what that means. I wonder if a P needs a J and vice versa? I wonder if other P types seek order in their chaotic life? I wonder if they too are like me and lack the discipline to obtain it? Is this odd? Odd that I am very happy being wild and spontaneous, very happy with my chaos and clutter YET there is this other part of me that finds peace in order, peace in structure and having a direction. And gosh darnit if I didn't marry a P ....

what do you think this says about me? do you think this is generally true? or am i just oddly unique?

thoughts?

discussions?

ideas?

thanks

I noticed that your capitalization and punctuation have been getting better recently. You did well on that post. :nice:

Anyway, I don't think it's that odd. J's like order, but not stagnation. I would eventually get bored if I had no chaos to put in order. ;)

And I can be persuaded to change my mind about a decision in the face of new information. The point is that every P has a J, and vice-versa. So it's not that you need a J so much as that you already have one in yourself that seems to be calling out for your attention.
 

INTJMom

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 28, 2007
Messages
5,413
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INTJ
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5w4
...
One of my favorite shows to watch is called Clean House. It's about a person or family who have ridiculously cluttered homes. So this team swoop in and organize them...
Do you think if I contact them, they'll come and do MY house??!!

I ramble a bit before making a point and quantifying a subject ;)


So I have been thinking today, scary thought, thinking firstly about the direction of my life and what I need to do. And while thinking about that I started thinking about getting a job that gets me out of the house, that forces a schedule and some order into my life. I also went back to the gym today after a long break and also how that would again provide order and a schedule.

Here I am a P,, very very very much a P, I lack discipline to organize and structure my life, yet when I have it there tends to be a calmness and a peace in me. So I have to wonder what that means. I wonder if a P needs a J and vice versa? I wonder if other P types seek order in their chaotic life? I wonder if they too are like me and lack the discipline to obtain it? Is this odd? Odd that I am very happy being wild and spontaneous, very happy with my chaos and clutter YET there is this other part of me that finds peace in order, peace in structure and having a direction. And gosh darnit if I didn't marry a P ....

what do you think this says about me? do you think this is generally true? or am i just oddly unique?

thoughts?

discussions?

ideas?

thanks
I think you're normal in that peaceful and ordered surroundings are pleasant to the human soul, I think.

I have difficulty keeping my home neat - for other reasons. I have to get psyched up and inspired to go on a cleaning spree.

My sister is an INFP. She is searching for a theme for her garden in the spring that will inspire her and give her vision. Once she has a theme - for instance, a fairy garden - then it's all a matter of planting her garden and filling it with decorations of fairies, and making it a make-believe fairy playground.

Since you're an NFP, maybe that would help you, too. Maybe you've even done something like that before without realizing that's what you were doing, or that it's a NEED in order to accomplish what you want.
 

targobelle

~*taaa raaa raaa boom*~
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
2,584
MBTI Type
enfp
I noticed that your capitalization and punctuation have been getting better recently. You did well on that post. :nice:


So here I am reading and drinking my coffee and taking mental notes as I go through, knowing I will come back, and lo and behold I stumble on this gem :rofl1:


I um, well I um, honestly had no idea that this really mattered to anyone. *giggles* I really do not pay attention to what I am doing when I type I just type. Sorry if this has bothered you. Apparently, or so I have been told, my mood directly affects my posts. The more angry I am the worse the run on sentences and errors. You see I type how I talk. You will all know what is happening in my life by paying attention, such as Athenian has done, to the small lack of details in my posts ;)
 

"?"

New member
Joined
May 2, 2007
Messages
1,167
MBTI Type
TiSe
Here I am a P,, very very very much a P, I lack discipline to organize and structure my life, yet when I have it there tends to be a calmness and a peace in me. So I have to wonder what that means. I wonder if a P needs a J and vice versa? I wonder if other P types seek order in their chaotic life? I wonder if they too are like me and lack the discipline to obtain it? Is this odd? Odd that I am very happy being wild and spontaneous, very happy with my chaos and clutter YET there is this other part of me that finds peace in order, peace in structure and having a direction. And gosh darnit if I didn't marry a P ....
Well I guess if we all stop the generalities of typing by referring to dichotomies, then we will began to get the gist of type. We do not use P, we use N or S to extravert, ergo we use a judging function (Ti or Fi) to introvert, which balances out. All types that prefer introverted judging needs and usually has internal order and organization. It's simply hard to organize our outer worlds sometimes, but we can, and do, do it similar to those preferring perceiving introverted functions and judging extraverted functions may seem to have it all together, but (especially the introverted types) internally they know that they're a mess. This may or may not show one way or another for introverted types. I think you hit the nail on the head with your very first sentence. You simply lack discipline. For us to excuse that as preferring a perceiving function to extravert is simply an excuse.
 

INTJMom

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 28, 2007
Messages
5,413
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INTJ
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5w4
Well I guess if we all stop the generalities of typing by referring to dichotomies, then we will began to get the gist of type. We do not use P, we use N or S to extravert, ergo we use a judging function (Ti or Fi) to introvert, which balances out. All types that prefer introverted judging needs and usually has internal order and organization. It's simply hard to organize our outer worlds sometimes, but we can, and do, do it similar to those preferring perceiving introverted functions and judging extraverted functions may seem to have it all together, but (especially the introverted types) internally they know that they're a mess. This may or may not show one way or another for introverted types. I think you hit the nail on the head with your very first sentence. You simply lack discipline. For us to excuse that as preferring a perceiving function to extravert is simply an excuse.
Which types are the types that prefer introverted judging?
 

prplchknz

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 11, 2007
Messages
34,397
MBTI Type
yupp
Well I guess if we all stop the generalities of typing by referring to dichotomies, then we will began to get the gist of type. We do not use P, we use N or S to extravert, ergo we use a judging function (Ti or Fi) to introvert, which balances out. All types that prefer introverted judging needs and usually has internal order and organization. It's simply hard to organize our outer worlds sometimes, but we can, and do, do it similar to those preferring perceiving introverted functions and judging extraverted functions may seem to have it all together, but (especially the introverted types) internally they know that they're a mess. This may or may not show one way or another for introverted types. I think you hit the nail on the head with your very first sentence. You simply lack discipline. For us to excuse that as preferring a perceiving function to extravert is simply an excuse.

Thats how I am my room is a total mess but I'm always rearanging and reordering my thoughts in my head. I find it easier to organize my mind then my room. So to the outer world I look like a total mess, but if you could see inside my head, you'd see I was actually very put together.
 

"?"

New member
Joined
May 2, 2007
Messages
1,167
MBTI Type
TiSe
Which types are the types that prefer introverted judging?
Judging types are T-F and perceiving types S-N, regardless of attitude (E-I). Therefore anyone prefering Fi or Ti as their dominant or auxilary to answer your question.
 

MerkW

New member
Joined
Aug 10, 2007
Messages
534
Those who have Ti or Si as their dominant function so ISTP, INTP, ISTJ, ISFJ.

What unholy alliances are you speaking of? Si is a perceiving function, silly. The Introverted Judging functions are Ti and Fi, thus all IxxP types have this preference.
 

INTJMom

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 28, 2007
Messages
5,413
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5w4
Judging types are T-F and perceiving types S-N, regardless of attitude (E-I). Therefore anyone prefering Fi or Ti as their dominant or auxilary to answer your question.
Does anyone know a good trick for memorizing that?
 

Jae Rae

Free-Rangin' Librarian
Joined
Nov 19, 2007
Messages
979
MBTI Type
INFJ
Judging - how do you make decisions? By using Thinking or Feeling?

Perceiving - how do you take in information? By using Sensing or Intuition?

Jae Rae
 

TenebrousReflection

New member
Joined
Sep 30, 2007
Messages
449
MBTI Type
INFp
Enneagram
4w5
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
My P/J is more borderline than most, so depending on perspective my comments have more or less value in this discussion, but heres how I relate to the stereotypes the P/J divide.

I think the more defining element and the one that most relates to being "P" is that I like keeping options open and don't like being pressured to make decisions on a basis of time, or feeling like I can't explore new and interesting options if they show up in the course of an activity (P). I do usually feel a lot better once I have made and followed through on an important decisions (J), but its very important to me that I only do so when I feel I've made that decision under my own terms with enough introspection and/or conversations with others to have comfort that I am making the decision thats right for me at the time. (P)

Its quite easy and natural for me to organize and plan things. (J)

Its a LOT harder for me to actually stick to those plans unless I have something meaningful to motivate me to do so (I'm not sticking to something because I planned it out, but instead because the end goal has meaning to my Fi) (FP)

Once I've decided that I need/should to do something to remain congruent with my values (that would involve organization or a routine of some kind) , I look at my daily schedule and figure out how much time I want to devote to it and find a place in my schedule to work on it. (J)

At first, its a matter of willpower to get myself to do this and I have to keep reminding myself WHY I'm doing this, but after a couple weeks or months of the activity (depending on if its something daily or weekly) it eventually becomes routine and I just do it without giving it much thought

While I am in the early stages of adjusting to the new schedule/activity, I experiment with it and tweak things like how much time I spend on it and also look for ways (if possible) to give it some variety in specific implementation while still sticking to the rough schedule and goals.

-- As an example, last spring, I decided I needed to take a more active role in improving my health, and one of the things I decided would be beneficial was taking walks on a regular basis. I allocated "time after work" but did not specify a value in that scheduling. I started out with a ~20 min walk through a nearby park to catch the bus at a different location. At first it took a bit of getting used to and I had to keep reminding myself that it was for my own long term good that I was doing it. Gradually, I experimented with new and longer routes, and eventually worked my way up to taking a ~115 minute walk on Mondays and Fridays (the time to walk from work to home along a relatively scenic path) with a ~20 min walk on Tue, Wed, Thu and was able to stick to that routine (and look at it as time to relax and enjoy the walk instead of looking at as something I was forcing myself to do) for several months until winter arrived and slippery weather conditions made it impractical to continue with it. I plan to resume that activity in the spring when walking conditions improve, and it will be an interesting test to me to see if I can jump back into that routine after a season or so of not doing it, or if I will need to willpower myself back into doing it.

I have a fairly high tolerance for clutter and my home and office have lots of scattered stacks of stuff that build up until they bother me. (P)

But, the seemingly chaotic stacks of stuff are organized by what they contain and stored in the locations that would make them available where I am most likely to need them (J)

I find it a lot easier to be routine and organized in a work environment than I do at home, but I think thats part of it being expected in a work environment. Its worth noting that I think I was happier when I was in a work environment that offered more flexible alternative scheduling options even when I rarely made use of them (just knowing that I'm not boxed in I think is what gives me a greater degree of comfort in a situation).

I may or may not think like other Ps in these regards, but to any Ps looking to add structure/routine and order to your life, I would highly recommend looking for ways you can do it while still leaving your options open and I think you may find it offers the benefits of structure without making you feel too trapped into a specific plan. Basically, very rough planning, alocating time at an aproximate rather than specific time and structuring it so that you have a buffer of time to experiment with and don't feel like you have to do things the same way every time.
 

INTJMom

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 28, 2007
Messages
5,413
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5w4
Judging - how do you make decisions? By using Thinking or Feeling?

Perceiving - how do you take in information? By using Sensing or Intuition?

Jae Rae
That might work.
But how do I remember the rest?
How do I know if it's I or E? As in Ti, Se, etc.?
 

alcea rosea

New member
Joined
Nov 11, 2007
Messages
3,658
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
7w6
What unholy alliances are you speaking of? Si is a perceiving function, silly. The Introverted Judging functions are Ti and Fi, thus all IxxP types have this preference.

Oh well, I was only looking for INTJmom's question and trying to answer it. ;)
 

"?"

New member
Joined
May 2, 2007
Messages
1,167
MBTI Type
TiSe
Thats how I am my room is a total mess but I'm always rearanging and reordering my thoughts in my head. I find it easier to organize my mind then my room. So to the outer world I look like a total mess, but if you could see inside my head, you'd see I was actually very put together.
This discussion was raised before in the J/P Myth thread. J/P has no bearing on cleanliness.
 
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