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How easy is it for you to see your dominant function?

Eric B

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You know, there's a difference here with Thomson's book actually. Her descriptions of ISFPs sound like they have a lot of overlap with INFPs (in that their Fi is idealistic). The whole go-with-the-flow thing seems overstated, but I've kind of accepted it..if that's what they are. It's one reason why I decided I was not ISFP though. Sounds like some lazy hippy hedonist faking a Buddha act. How could a Fi type be so much much Se oriented than ESFP?

Yeah, I know.. I don't think it makes a lot of sense though. That wiki site is cool too, but I just thought it was funny to catch that description there. Texts like Thomson's would disagree that they're freeflowing.. She's one of the authors that gives them the credit of making impact with their ideas and being discriminate, rather than this need to just be. Views like that strip people of any recognizable aspirations. Even by Keirsey's more limited descriptions, they would be artists/composers - and artists don't have a lack of things to say either. They have something they're not flowing with - whether personal or a larger issue. Maybe 10% of artists don't say anything worth a damn, but those are bands like.. Bananarama and Nickelback or something. And I wouldn't call Nickelback ISFP :blush:

This wiki is from after the book, and 1) she has added to and modified some of her views since. Like the wiki also goes into Beebe's model, which was totally absent from the book. It wasn't well known enough at the time of the book for her to go into it. 2) The wiki isn't hers; it's someone's (Ben Kovitz) "exegesis" of her, so a lot of it is his own (and other contributors') "hypothesizing" (it's even admitted in places) of the meanings of her writings, sort of like a lot of the stuff I always say about comparative systems.
 

CuriousFeeling

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It's hard to say how I "see" Ni in action without stating how it works along with the support functions.
 

Aleksei

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Try doing that then. :)
 

Poki

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Yes, Learning about yourself from someone else would be weak form of learning about yourself... Non efficient.

Fi would be a difficult function to actually try and 'look at' indeed. Recollection of trying to remember what you just experienced and identifying it to a function where you can confuse yourself because to identify the function itself would take up that particular function to judge or analyse it.

Its the method in which its done which makes it efficient vs innefficient. There are things you will never see in yourself going about things alone. Things we blame on the outside world we remain blind to, things that our functions and who we are arent naturally inclined to allow us to experience.

Blindness is not efficient. A closed system is only efficient within what it currently does. It is not efficient in expanding itself, but reducing itself. In other words it focuses within to what it knows.
 

CuriousFeeling

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Try doing that then. :)

For instance, whenever Ni is working with Te, I think of the end result, and envision the steps necessary to achieve that goal, and it usually occurs in a stepwise fashion. Another example is whenever I look at the general trend of a graph and extrapolate what will happen later on based on the direction it is going. It's a prediction.

Whenever I am working with literature or a piece of music, I tend to delve deeply into the hidden meanings and inner workings with the characters, symbolism, metaphors, harmony, timbre, melody, lyrics. The question that comes instantly to mind is "What's the general point the author is getting across here? What is the author's intent behind what they are describing here? This melody has a certain vibe to it that conveys a specific emotion that the composer is describing. The timbre of the song represents something in the main idea that the composer is communicating to the audience." I think the best example of my Ni in action is whenever I am writing poetry and lyrics. I think of the main idea that I want to convey, and write the main idea in a symbolic fashion, an indirect representation of the idea.

In the instance of working with people, utilizing Fe with Ni, I gauge their behaviors and what they say, and deduce what it means. Even if someone can be saying that they are fine, I can tell that they really aren't, based on the inflection of the words, the pitch of their voice. I am especially sensitive to how something is said. The words may say one thing, but the way it is said indicates something totally different. I can pick up on non-verbal cues from people and animals.
 
G

garbage

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[Ni working with other stuff]

I like this :popc1:

I develop got one huge, huge plan for a given problem, and I develop several broad-base contingency plans in case I'm flat-out wrong about my interpretation. I focus my efforts on the primary plan but also partially flesh out the contingency plans. You know, just in case. Extrapolating some trends too far can make one paranoid, so it's good to have backups.

I have a mental framework that allows other ideas to be duct-taped to it, then I refine the connection between my ideas and those of others. I don't tend to fully trust my own intuition, but it's the best I've got.

I tend toward reading too deeply into things--external phenomena, the way people act--though I know that some things are just as they are. Many people can simply be taken at their word until emotional cues tend to contradict what they say.

I also tend toward mediating discussions amongst others rather than pushing my own ideas. I have ideas, but sharing them isn't often a priority--replying, reacting, and mediating is.


Te and Fe are pretty freakin' simple, when you get down to their guts. And that's the way they should be.
 

Halla74

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How easy is it for you to see your dominant function?.

Watching your own thinking. Being aware. You'd think you'd be able to spot some framework. Can you do that?

I hope you get a kick out of this Wolfy. :yes:

This question has been on my mind since yesterday.

If I had to choose an image to represent how I conceptualize the framework that is "Se" and how I feel it is implemented (especially by ESXPs) it would be this one: :2ar15:

robot.jpg
 

Poki

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I like this :popc1:

I develop got one huge, huge plan for a given problem, and I develop several broad-base contingency plans in case I'm flat-out wrong about my interpretation. I focus my efforts on the primary plan but also partially flesh out the contingency plans. You know, just in case. Extrapolating some trends too far can make one paranoid, so it's good to have backups.

I have a mental framework that allows other ideas to be duct-taped to it, then I refine the connection between my ideas and those of others. I don't tend to fully trust my own intuition, but it's the best I've got.

I tend toward reading too deeply into things--external phenomena, the way people act--though I know that some things are just as they are. Many people can simply be taken at their word until emotional cues tend to contradict what they say.

I also tend toward mediating discussions amongst others rather than pushing my own ideas. I have ideas, but sharing them isn't often a priority--replying, reacting, and mediating is.


Te and Fe are pretty freakin' simple, when you get down to their guts. And that's the way they should be.

What causes the duct tape to be applied to Ni? I am curious how NiTi differs from NiFi in regard to determining duct tape and what is actually duct taped. Is Ti more of a logical structure around the duct tape or duct taped area while Fi is more feeling.
 

Poki

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I hope you get a kick out of this Wolfy. :yes:

This question has been on my mind since yesterday.

If I had to choose an image to represent how I conceptualize the framework that is "Se" and how I feel it is implemented (especially by ESXPs) it would be this one: :2ar15:

robot.jpg

So you picture it with a stick up your ass?
 

Aleksei

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If I had to choose an image to represent how I conceptualize the framework that is "Se" and how I feel it is implemented (especially by ESXPs) it would be this one: :2ar15:
This one works too: :party2:
 

Halla74

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So you picture it with a stick up your ass?

LOL! :laugh:

No, dude. That's a huge titanium turd I'm squeezing out before I go shoot some hoops. When's the last time you had an eye exam? :newwink:
 

Ace_

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I make business plans in my sleep and have a couple of business ideas every day. Yeah it's easy to see Te in me.
 
G

garbage

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The smiley dude actually captures more than we'd think at first glance.

Overall.. perhaps "forceful, determined, and ready to take life by the private area"?

What causes the duct tape to be applied to Ni? I am curious how NiTi differs from NiFi in regard to determining duct tape and what is actually duct taped. Is Ti more of a logical structure around the duct tape or duct taped area while Fi is more feeling.

Hell, I'm not even sure if what I describe is an aggregation of Ni and Fe or not. I'll leave someone else to answer your question in theoretical detail, but I can say what it means for me.

I'm right until I'm wrong, but I always approach things as if I could be wrong--that is, if my perspective is missing something. I take try to take something from everything and adjust my worldview accordingly.

Take a particular interaction with other person. If someone has completely unwarranted criticism for me, for example, I don't dismiss the entire experience based upon the fact that the criticism itself is unwarranted. If they're yelling and frustrated.. well, that teaches me that perhaps that person is (and maybe that people in general are..) critical when they're frustrated. If I choose to "truncate" my depth of thought--which I will if the stakes are low--perhaps I'll just treat them as a critical person and act accordingly.

Take another person who gives me advice contrary to the way I've been living in some particular aspect of my life. I innately recognize how they are approaching the issue, and perhaps "bend" my own perception to incorporate their advice--again, not completely dismissing it just because it doesn't match my experience or perspective. I extract what's reasonable to extract from the interaction--perhaps they're absolutely and completely correct, or perhaps their advice is tainted (for good or for bad) by their experience. In fact, perhaps it's all bollocks.

In other words, what does a person really feel, and does the person really mean? How much can I take away from the experience?


When it comes to systems, rules, and quotas.. I don't take them for what they are. For example, there's a reason why a speed limit exists--for good or for bad. Perhaps those in charge wish to reduce risks to drivers. But then, if that's their intention, and if their intention is valid, there might be another better way for that intention to be manifested. A speed limit may or may not be the best answer.

Okay, so your boss has only Ph.D.s on his "senior" research staff and you're relegated to a "junior" position. "Rules is rules"? Not necessarily. His intention is likely to showcase the competency of his staff--to provide the perception to customers that his staff is top-notch. That's what a Ph.D. shows. So work around the system if you want a "senior" position--showcase your own competency and diplomatically display it, obtain a Ph.D. yourself, or otherwise become the exception to the rule. None of these options is 'either-or,' by the way--all of them can be pursued at some level simultaneously, even if the focus is on one of them.

What's most important is why a rule--social, bureaucratic, or otherwise--is in place. If it doesn't make sense, then, well, weigh breaking it or working around it and potentially moving forward, against the possible consequences are doing so.


In general, I usually ruminate about an entire experience, trying to see it from every possible angle and extract what I can from it. I tend toward becoming conscious of all of these possible interpretations, rather than subconsciously processing them--though I know that the latter happens as well.

In retrospect, this might not sound like Judging. I'd be interested to see what people think.
 

BlackCat

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Pretty easy for me, easiest in socionics though.
 

Poki

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The smiley dude actually captures more than we'd think at first glance.

Overall.. perhaps "forceful, determined, and ready to take life by the private area"?



Hell, I'm not even sure if what I describe is an aggregation of Ni and Fe or not. I'll leave someone else to answer your question in theoretical detail, but I can say what it means for me.

I'm right until I'm wrong, but I always approach things as if I could be wrong--that is, if my perspective is missing something. I take try to take something from everything and adjust my worldview accordingly.

Take a particular interaction with other person. If someone has completely unwarranted criticism for me, for example, I don't dismiss the entire experience based upon the fact that the criticism itself is unwarranted. If they're yelling and frustrated.. well, that teaches me that perhaps that person is (and maybe that people in general are..) critical when they're frustrated. If I choose to "truncate" my depth of thought--which I will if the stakes are low--perhaps I'll just treat them as a critical person and act accordingly.

Take another person who gives me advice contrary to the way I've been living in some particular aspect of my life. I innately recognize how they are approaching the issue, and perhaps "bend" my own perception to incorporate their advice--again, not completely dismissing it just because it doesn't match my experience or perspective. I extract what's reasonable to extract from the interaction--perhaps they're absolutely and completely correct, or perhaps their advice is tainted (for good or for bad) by their experience. In fact, perhaps it's all bollocks.

In other words, what does a person really feel, and does the person really mean? How much can I take away from the experience?


When it comes to systems, rules, and quotas.. I don't take them for what they are. For example, there's a reason why a speed limit exists--for good or for bad. Perhaps those in charge wish to reduce risks to drivers. But then, if that's their intention, and if their intention is valid, there might be another better way for that intention to be manifested. A speed limit may or may not be the best answer.

Okay, so your boss has only Ph.D.s on his "senior" research staff and you're relegated to a "junior" position. "Rules is rules"? Not necessarily. His intention is likely to showcase the competency of his staff--to provide the perception to customers that his staff is top-notch. That's what a Ph.D. shows. So work around the system if you want a "senior" position--showcase your own competency and diplomatically display it, obtain a Ph.D. yourself, or otherwise become the exception to the rule. None of these options is 'either-or,' by the way--all of them can be pursued at some level simultaneously, even if the focus is on one of them.

What's most important is why a rule--social, bureaucratic, or otherwise--is in place. If it doesn't make sense, then, well, weigh breaking it or working around it and potentially moving forward, against the possible consequences are doing so.


In general, I usually ruminate about an entire experience, trying to see it from every possible angle and extract what I can from it. I tend toward becoming conscious of all of these possible interpretations, rather than subconsciously processing them--though I know that the latter happens as well.

In retrospect, this might not sound like Judging. I'd be interested to see what people think.

It doesnt sound like a judging function. Sounds like pulling in the perception you get from things around you. It sounds open, but closed at the same time. Open to angles, but closed when applying it to people in regard to F. I can see that you are processing the logic behind the angles and keeping things open, but in regards to feelings it comes across more blanketed as if maybe people do things for the same reasons. Its like a shift in focus from "individualization" to "group". The reason things are done the way they are done vs the way people are.

Just my perception of what you wrote. It all has a similiar feel which I am guessing is Ni. I can totally relate to most of your logic behind the angles, Fe for me is not so group oriented, I still tend to lean toward Ti with what people do.
 

King sns

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I notice my tertiary function the most as it is the one constantly growing and getting better. The first two are givens. If I can't imagine how they might be different, it is hard to notice them to begin with.
 

Aleksei

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I make business plans in my sleep and have a couple of business ideas every day. Yeah it's easy to see Te in me.
That's more of a sign of Ni, though.
 

proteanmix

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My Fe feels very silent and wordless, I actually notice it the most here on the forum, when people say things like feeling social anxieties or not knowing how to engage or connect with other people. Then the realization hits me that it may not be intuitive (not in the MBTI sense) to some people. Not that I'm great at it or anything, it's just not something that petrifies me. It's a Just Do It kind of thing...I don't think twice about it.

I know this isn't the case for every Fe dom but for me IRL, it's comes down to if I want to engage/disengage or connect/disconnect. Depending on which mode I chose, the Fe practically drives itself. I know pretty much what I need to do in either direction. Introverted perception +Ti I feel a lot. It's like some little scrungy rat grabbing something from a trash can and then running back into a sewer to take it apart and then if it decides it edible just devours it. Very Gollum-esque.
 
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