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Traditions & Customs

How do you feel about tradition and custom?

  • I follow customs and traditions as I want to please others

    Votes: 4 11.8%
  • I follow traditions and customs because they're there to be observed

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • I just do whatever I feel like; if I do it I do it, if I don't I don't

    Votes: 13 38.2%
  • I follow traditions and customs only if they make sense to me

    Votes: 17 50.0%

  • Total voters
    34

Ezra

Luctor et emergo
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Dec 12, 2007
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Talk about traditions and customs.
 

Athenian200

Protocol Droid
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Jul 1, 2007
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8,828
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Talk about traditions and customs.

My attitude towards them is tolerance. As long as they seem to serve some function, make people happy, and/or don't cause much harm, I go along with them. I wouldn't follow a tradition that was wasteful or harmful to myself or others in any way unless I was legally forced to do so, though, and even then I would be looking for loopholes desperately.

I try to do things more traditionally around other people to get along with them, but I never really follow them for their own sake when I'm alone. To me, tradition is only as valuable as it serves to connect others, or keep certain ways of describing/doing things consistent over time. It isn't valuable in and of itself.
 

arcticangel02

To the top of the world
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Oct 5, 2007
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892
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I tend to be of the belief that traditions and customs are there for a reason, that they've developed that way over time because of a practical, sensible reason. So I think it's presumptous to say, as some people do, that any traditions and customs are useless and old-fashioned.

Given, many are no longer very useful today, and in the near future will likely vanish altogether, but they have and do serve their purpose.
 

INTJMom

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I chose: "I just do whatever I feel like; if I do it I do it, if I don't I don't"
This is the way I was in the first 25-30 years of my life.

I HATED doing something just because somebody ELSE said it was time to do it. I hated rituals because, in my opinion, people would just go through the motions without actually FEELING like doing whatever it was. I thought it was much better to buy a person a present or send them a card for NO PARTICULAR REASON AT ALL except that it was motivated by my care for that person. I wasn't forced to do it because it was Easter or Valentine's Day. I felt like a gift or card given to me just on the spur of the moment for no particular reason at all, was MUCH MORE valuable to me than someone giving me something because they felt obligated to because it was a particular holiday.

Now that I'm older, I can appreciate the value of organized holidays and such, and I can appreciate a gift even though it was given because it's demanded by a certain tradition or holiday. So my answer NOW would be different because I'm older, but I chose to give the INTJ answer.

But generally speaking, I HATE jumping through hoops. The more hoops I have to jump through, the more rituals I have to participate in, the sooner I am going to lose my mind, and go insane and possibly suicidal. I can stand it, but not for long.

I had a female ESTJ boss who came in, took over, and implemented ritual after useless, senseless, time-wasting, stupid ritual, and when I couldn't take it anymore, I quit, even though I really loved the job and it may have been the best one I ever had. And I couldn't stand her gossiping either. She would drone on for a half hour or more while I was supposed to be getting my work done, and when she was done, my stomach would be in a tight knot and feel like a rock.

Now I observe traditions because I know that's what I'm supposed to do to make the people in my life happy.

Not only that but in particular, family traditions, help give your children a sense of family identity, which family psychologists say is very important.
 

quietgirl

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Sep 29, 2007
Messages
401
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INFJ
I'm not really all the traditional, but I'll celebrate certain ones that mean something to me. In contrast, my ISFJ boyfriend decorates for and celebrates every single holiday (you should've seen Christmas!). He also remembers anniversaries that I don't remember and likes to do sweet little nostalgic things like revisit the place we met. I definitely appreciate those sort of traditions, but I wouldn't think to do them or even remember them without being prompted.
 

The Ü™

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I follow family traditions like visiting family for the holidays or going to grandmother's house on Sundays, but beyond that, I go my own way.

I guess I follow these traditions because I kinda get along with most of my family (on my father's side), which is generally close-knit, and because these customs offer the opportunity to get free food and to see my family, because with family, I'm able to make a fool of myself without getting arrested.

I do not follow traditions out of societal obligation, so you will not see me at a St. Patty's Day or Memorial Day parade unless there is something meaningful or useful to be extracted from it. Family is meaningful, food and gifts are useful.

Family traditions are different from social traditions in that family traditions tend to be meaningful and symbolic while social traditions (e.g. standing during the National Anthem) tend to exist merely as ritual.
 

NoahFence

New member
Joined
Jun 23, 2007
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288
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INTP
Fuck traditions, fuck customs, fuck culture.

I quite agree. I still voted for "I do it to please others". Inside, I rage against the stupidity and inane sheephood of it all, but I do it anyway. It's the path of least resistance. I have never once produced any noticeable gain by describing the pointlessness of such things to those who hold them dear.

"How are you?"
"Fine."

Grrrr...translation:

"I acknowledge your presence."
"I acknowledge yours as well."
 

SolitaryPenguin

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Dec 20, 2007
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I'm not really sure how I would vote.

My girlfriend is Jewish, I am not. But I observe Sabbath with her and go to temple with her on the weekends that I don't have my son. I am not sure if this means that I am observing these traditions to please her though, because I genuinely enjoy it. I think it is more the perception that it is "family time" that I enjoy so much, and being able to block out the world from sundown to sundown.

Something interesting for me to ponder though, thank you.
 

The Ü™

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Rebelling against traditions can be pretty mindless, too.

However, I agree that most traditions are mindless, another example is rising before a judge. In theory, I don't rise before a judge unless I personally have respect for that judge. However, in practice, I will quite possibly rise before the judge because, under normal circumstances, I don't see any real reason not to, either. So there is a certain line of conformity that I have, too.

With that said, I think there is also quite a difference between traditionalism and patriotism. I remember a while back we were talking about whether patriotism was necessary or not, and I've become able to express in words my reasoning for why it is necessary. I do not think that conforming to tradition is patriotic. I think a true patriot is an idealist who is loyal to and wants what's best for their country. A traditionalist is just loyal to a tradition, never questioning the reason, just conforming because their friends conform. That's the way I look at it, anyway.
 

substitute

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Uh-oh, now you've done it. You've forced me to use Si!! :party2:

I had to fight all my life for the right to exist as the person I am, against social forces that wanted to obliterate me. Therefore, I cannot bear to think of things being obliterated. I've always had flaws, but so has everyone - I had good points too, and I had to fight for the right and the opportunity to prove and show those good points to the world, and to contribute positively to society as myself.

This experience has given me a fairly special view of traditions and customs. Sometimes, though they make no sense to me, so long as they don't actually hurt anyone, I'll respect them and even observe them, simply to save them from obliteration. Sometimes, things get lost in the mists of time, meanings of things get lost but their external manifestations remain in these traditions. If those traditions are kept and observed even through the time when they don't make sense, it could be that a discovery will be made, perhaps some archaeologist will dig something up that will shed new light on those traditions and make them mean something again, and the full richness of their meaning and use can be enjoyed once again by a new generation of people.

But if everyone had stopped observing them when they no longer made sense, they would've been obliterated and when the archaeologist dug the thing up, they'd have just had some piece of text or a picture or a pot or something that they wouldn't be able to know the full significance of, not being able to put it together with the 'actions'.

Imagine if the actions of the Hokey Cokey became lost due to songs with actions going out of fashion for a few generations. You'd just be left with a lame song that was no fun. But if everyone still kept passing it down to their kids, at some point someone might find a book that had all the actions described in it, people would rediscover them and all the fun you can have 'performing' the song with a group. The whole thing would come together again.

Imagine now that it wasn't the Hokey Cokey, but something more philosophical, something really deep and mystical.

But even without the true origin or meaning being known, participating in customs, rituals or traditions that you know go back a long way in your community can help people feel connected to their ancestors, give a sense of continuity and meaning in that way. So they're still not useless.

To tie it all in with my experience, I guess I'm saying that if something has encoded in it some property or function that can be beneficial or enjoyable or meaningful, I think it should be allowed to continue to exist even if at the present time, most people are unable to see its true worth.

Phew... that's enough for me. I mean I know I've worked on my Si a lot but even so, that'll do!
 

substitute

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This reminds me of an experience I had in Zambia once. Just let me tell it and I'll leave y'all alone to carry on without my rambling - it's relevant, I promise.

In the village where I was staying there was a pole with a bell on the top, and at midday every day a boy would go out and ring it, three times - pause - three times - pause - three times - pause - nine times. Some people might recognize what it was already, but this boy didn't and nobody in the village did. This was a remote village in the region of Kitwe. Nobody could remember why they rang the bell like that, but they all just said that it had 'always' been done. An old man told me his great grandmother had told him the bell was always rung for as long as she could remember.

Now of course this was the Angelus. Many years ago, Anglican missionaries had gone out there and taught them the Angelus and established its observation at midday every day. But after the colonial period ended and most of the English speaking priests left and the ones still there had different jobs to do, the memory faded and nobody was taught to say the prayer when the bell rang - all anyone remembered was that this bell had to ring in this way at this time every day.

So I told the boy what it was, and taught him the prayer and taught him what it meant. He ran and told his mom and she brought her other children and her husband to me and asked me to teach them. All the rest of that day and the following morning people were coming up to me and asking me to teach them about the bell, and when I went to the bell the next day I saw a crowd of people standing there and saying the Angelus. By the fourth day, they were singing it in traditional African harmony, clapping their hands and really enjoying themselves.

If people hadn't kept ringing the bell 'for no reason' for all those years, I wouldn't have had that wonderful way to bond with the people in that village, and they might never have learned the Angelus again.
 

SillySapienne

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I don't mind traditions and customs, and from an observational point of view find them to often be quite interesting.
 
Joined
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I don't mind traditions and customs, even if they don't serve a particular function anymore. I think some of them are silly, like insisting on turkey for dinner every Thanksgiving, and I'll rebel against them. But largely I feel that they serve to bring people together and foster a sense of history. I tend to think that people who dislike tradition or even feel vitriol toward it are trying to take the humanity out of humans. We are social animals, and not ruthless computers, and we aren't going to make the most "logical" decision all the time.
 

Ezra

Luctor et emergo
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Right, the reason I did this poll was to see the proportional representation of Keirsey's temperaments on this forum.

I can derive that there are plenty of NTs (not surprised) and SPs, a few NFs, and no SJs. These results could be down to the way I phrased the options, but I tried to phrase each one to roughly apply to the mentality of the different temperaments (you should be able to work out which ones are which). Any feedback about the options and how I might rephrase them would help me in future, because I could make a better poll accurately representing the temperament population.

OTR, I thought the NF one was a bit shit. I'm surprised anyone voted for that actually. That could easily have been an SJ one.
 

Athenian200

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Right, the reason I did this poll was to see the proportional representation of Keirsey's temperaments on this forum.

I can derive that there are plenty of NTs (not surprised) and SPs, a few NFs, and no SJs. These results could be down to the way I phrased the options, but I tried to phrase each one to roughly apply to the mentality of the different temperaments (you should be able to work out which ones are which). Any feedback about the options and how I might rephrase them would help me in future, because I could make a better poll accurately representing the temperament population.

OTR, I thought the NF one was a bit shit. I'm surprised anyone voted for that actually. That could easily have been an SJ one.

Well, actually, most members didn't vote.

For NF, I think "I follow traditions when they are beneficial to people" might have been better. Because I would never follow a tradition that didn't make anyone feel better. So I never follow traditions when I'm on my own, but I do follow them when others expect me to, and it doesn't hurt anyone. I would resist a tradition if I felt it could be harmful in the long run, though.
 
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