I think MBTI is full of it.

[Psychdigg]

Jaguar: you don't know enough about somatotype to be able to make an accurate assessment about whether it's objective or not.

 

[Aleksei]

Psych, what makes you so sure restoring a person's "core personality" (assuming it exists) is even desirable?

 

[Jaguar]

Jaguar: you don't know enough about somatotype to be able to make an accurate assessment about whether it's objective or not.

I read about it weeks ago. I am entitled to my opinion, whether you like it or not.

 

[Psychdigg]

Jaguar: Yes you are entitled to your opinion. The facts are that you REALLY don't know enough about somatotype to be able to make an accurate assessment about whether it's objective or not.

How about educating yourself on the subject.

Cortes, J.E. and Gatti, F.M. (1965) "Physique and Self-Description of Temperament" in J. Consulting Psychol. Vol. 29, No. 5, 432-439

 

[Jaguar]

Jaguar: Yes you are entitled to your opinion. The facts are that you REALLY don't know enough about somatotype to be able to make an accurate assessment about whether it's objective or not.

I'm not buying your somatopotato peeler. Find another customer.

 

[Edgar]

Then more than half the world is an INFP because most don't even believe in this. I know you're joking though, I'm just purposefully being serious.

More than half of the world never heard of MBTI. And more than half of the people that heard of MBTI have no friggin clue on how it works.

 

[Psychdigg]

Alexsei: It's a matter of good engineering. You don't build an airplane out of cast iron.

As the Bible says: You don't yoke an ass and a bull to pull a plow. You want to maximize your advantages and minimize your disadvantages.

It's a no-brainer. Your intention is obviously to ridicule.

 

[Psychdigg]

Jaguar:

My objective is to share information. Your objective is ridicule. Just don't read what I write. I could care less how you feel. Can't you just block my posts?

 

[Jaguar]

Jaguar:

My objective is to share information. Your objective is ridicule. Just don't read what I write. I could care less how you feel. Can't you just block my posts?

Victor, is that you?

 

[Aleksei]

Alexsei: It's a matter of good engineering. You don't build an airplane out of cast iron.

As the Bible says: You don't yoke an ass and a bull to pull a plow. You want to maximize your advantages and minimize your disadvantages.

Unless of course you dislike your natural advantages and disadvantages, which can happen.

Second question: Why would personality be biologically determined? We don't hatch from eggs in the sewers, and even the most hardcore sociobiologists tend to acknowledge some environmental influence. What's the role of upbringing and social relationships, if our personality is hardcoded into our genome?

It's a no-brainer. Your intention is obviously to ridicule.

I'll keep counsel of what my intentions are, thank you very much.

 

[skylights]

Congratulations! You've figured out how to effectively utilize MBTI and Jungian theory. They're intended to illustrate your strengths and weaknesses, so you have a starting point.

I'm sure that we've all got limits to exactly how far we can "bend," but I'm sure that we can bend a lot more than we give ourselves credit for. The capability matures as we mature.

To a certain extent, I look at MBTI to see the things that I have to work on in myself. I'd like to be balanced in terms of functional descriptions. Having a "one size fits all" mentality to life stifles growth as a person.

right, exactly.

and when you think of the word "preference", it's not necessarily a conscious preference. jungian typology asks, all other things being equal, what would you prefer to use? what comes the easiest for you, to take in a big picture or to take in precise detail? to focus outside of you or inside of you? to gather information or to act on it?

almost everyone is expected to put on their TJ at work, if we're talking about business. but some people are already there, while others have to expend much more mental energy to shift their cognition to work that way. me, for example, lol.

the best thing, of course, would be to have full flexibility to be able to bounce all over on the spectrum for whenever it's most useful. and perhaps, fill, you are just incredibly lucky to have been born or developed very close to XXXX in yourself. the question, then, would be can you use F to the same extent as a 100% F 0% T person could? even when under extreme stress, as Metaphor pointed out?

and at the end of the day, jungian typology is just another way of understanding others and improving ourselves. it's exactly what you called it - a tool. it's working well for me, but maybe at some point in my life it won't be as useful anymore. maybe it's currently not as useful in yours.

These tests are no more than cold reading.

For instance: Which describes you best? a. You are the life of the party. OR b. You keep in the background.

If you answer You are the life of the party. Lo and behold your profile says: You are the type that tends to be the life of the party. Oh WOW! How did they know that?

yes and no.

first of all, that's a fairly bad example E-I question. take it from an E who always tested as I because of questions like this

MBTI is blatant like that on the surface (and on internet tests - but how much can you really expect from quizfarm, lol)... function theory is much more nuanced. take ENFP and ENFJ. you'd think we'd be pretty close, right? ENFP is just a little more adaptable and ENFJ is just a little more organized? but if you read the type descriptions and adjective correlations, there are subtleties that don't necessarily correspond to any answers you've given in the test, which is the result of the extraverted/introverted J/P function switching. ENFJ and ENFP are actually very different in terms of more than just J and P. so while neither ENFP nor ENFJ tend to be the life of the party, despite being Es, take something like "i feel comfortable in crowds" or "i feel uncomfortable in crowds" - ENFP and ENFJ both probably respond the former, but the ENFP profile reads "you enjoy socializing but also spend a good deal of time alone" while ENFJ's reads "you enjoy socializing but can still feel alone in a crowd" - differences that can be attributed to internally directed and externally directed Feeling, respectively.

so yes, you self-report, but it also does go beyond the self-reporting.

 

[Quiet]

I think you're overanalyzing all this, Brother Fill.

Please consider the following:

10 years ago I tested ENTJ.

I didn't even touch an MBTI book for 8 years after the initial test.

Then I took a different, paid test (more comprehensive than just MBTI) and got ESTP.

When it comes down to it, according to the function preferences in my footer, I'm definitely an Extrovert, and show a strong preference for T vs. F.

BUT - I'm almost perfectly balanced on J/P (48/52) and near balanced on N/S (40/60).

So, I could be ESTX or even EXTX on the right day.

Now look at the type descriptions for all ExTx types: ENTJ, ESTJ, ENTP, and ESTP. What do you see?

ENTJ - Jung Type Descriptions

ENTJ - Jung Type Descriptions

ENTP - Jung Type Descriptions

ESTP - Jung Type Descriptions

They all have many of the same words in common describing the archetype of these individuals.

At one point I tested as an "Ambivert" (balanced E/I) and another ISTP.

Then I was told to try and develop my Feelings as a means of directly combatting depression I suffered about a year ago. It was really difficult to turn them on, but once I did I was alot better at sorting through problems, especially those that couldn't be solved in a spreadsheet. After that I tested ESFP and even ISFP.

Once you know the tests it's easier to game them, but there are others that are better at getting to the root of it without commonly used questions.



My bet is you do, but you are rtoo focused on the trees to see the forest right now. If you forget all about this stuff ffor a few months, you will settle back into your default preference.

-----

New topic:

Have you tested for your Enneagram type?

I'm 7w8 sx/so.

Here's a decent quick test for your ring:

Free Enneagram Personality Test

The Enneagram type description for 7w8 sx/so tells ALOT about me that even the better ESTP type descriptions do not state.

I'm better off with the ESTP type descriptions if I (a) delete some of the stupid negative shit in it, and (b) consider my 7w8 sx/so description for material to fill in what the ESTP type descriptions misses. Between the two you get a farily good generic representation of key aspects of my personality. But, I'm a tricky bastard, so don't count on all of it in trying to figure me out.

Good luck, Brother Fill! I hope you are well!

-A.

^^ this ^^

I think like anything, over focussing on MBTI can become obsessive and addictive. I believe it's true purpose is to gain a rough understanding of yourself and map out characteristics that you feel need improvement to better yourself as a person. No one is an exact fit to the descriptions, and there is always that danger of using it as an excuse.

If you feel you don't fit any one particular description, then perhaps you have achieved a difficult but admirable gift. That gift being a complete balance of all known functions.

 

[raz]

Why do people feel they need to reassure others that they are entitled to their opinion? There's a difference between having an opinion and your opinion being criticized. If someone criticizes your opinion, the essence of your reaction is in the same realm as being entitled to your opinion. You made the choice to allow yourself to be riled up over it, so it's no longer the other person's fault, but rather your own.

It makes no sense to defend your right to have an opinion. No one ever truly takes that from you. Your very mind would have to be altered. By expressing your opinion in the external area, you assume the risk that your opinion will be scrutinized and will not be entitled to the same safety as when it was kept to yourself. In fact, the very act of an emotional response to the possibility of the integrity of your opinion being compromised by an external force denotes possible emotional insecurity.

Really, being so upset over opinions baffles me.

 

[Psychdigg]

Alexsei:

Unless of course you dislike your natural advantages and disadvantages, which can happen.

Suppose you have a natural talent as a musician. You have perfect pitch. You are attractive. You have excellent hand coordination for playing intricate riffs on a guitar. Your voice is powerful and sexy.

On the other hand you failed every science and math course you ever took.

Now, you may become obsessed with being a rocket scientist but that's probably not going to happen. And if you try you will surely fail. Yes people can desire the impossible when they are out of touch with reality. That's kind of what "crazy" means.

It's like those sad moments of truth on American Idol when a person discovers that their friends and relatives have been encouraging them to sing because they have such a great voice and then Simon, Randy, and ?????? unanimously tell them that they can't hold a tune, their moves are awkward, and they have a strange thing they do with their eyes.

Nature/Nurture:

Selection is for survival. Nature selects organisms that are sensitive to their environments and are capable of adapting their behavior to their environment. So in that sense most organisms cluster around a bell curve. The mid point of any trait has the best overall advantage for survival. We have been selected to be influenced by our environment. However, there are those extremes that continue to remain in the gene pool to the extent that survival often requires an organism to stubbornly resist being affected by their environment. Sixty percent of the somatotypes are fairly balanced. The other 40% are varying degrees of more extreme types.

The reason you find so many N types on these type sites is because they are all mid-range balanced somatotypes. They are so adaptable that they have difficulty figuring out their identity. The 40% that are more extreme tend to know intuitively what their type is. At least they don't sit around obsessing about it.

So in reality Nature wins. Some (60%) people are "naturally" inclined to be influenced strongly by their environment.

 

[Jaguar]

It baffles me that people are baffled.

 

[Mole]

Frankly, I don't know why you don't just read the history of MBTI and the book, "Personality Types".

And I don't know why you don't find out which institutions use MBTI today.

I did, and I was surprised.

I have tried to tell the members what I have learnt but to my surprise, they are not interested.

 

[ragashree]

 

[Edgar]

Frankly, I don't know why you don't just read the history of MBTI and the book, "Personality Types".

And I don't know why you don't find out which institutions use MBTI today.

I did, and I was surprised.

I have tried to tell the members what I have learnt but to my surprise, they are not interested.

I have read and learned that certain institutions use MBTI.
Those institutions are run by Jews, Free Masons, Scientologists, and Morlocks.

Those are the people that believe that certain writings that are not meant to be read by the outsiders.
Yet they also treasure the writing of secrets.

Tom Cruise claimed that Scientology cured his dyslexia.
But what good is the cure for dyslexia, if all that you are offered to read are lies?

 

[Such Irony]

Alexsei:

Suppose you have a natural talent as a musician. You have perfect pitch. You are attractive. You have excellent hand coordination for playing intricate riffs on a guitar. Your voice is powerful and sexy.

On the other hand you failed every science and math course you ever took.

Now, you may become obsessed with being a rocket scientist but that's probably not going to happen. And if you try you will surely fail. Yes people can desire the impossible when they are out of touch with reality. That's kind of what "crazy" means.

I agree. Sad to say, there are limits to what certain individuals can achieve. Which is why I'm skeptical of those who say things like "you can achieve anything you want if you just put your mind to it and keep persisting at it" which is then followed by some inspirational story about someone who achieved their goal in spite of the odds.

The movie Rudy is a case in point. It's based on a true story of a young man who has dreams of playing football for Notre Dame. He has several strikes against him. He's rather short and skinny, not at all built like a football player. He's not academically inclined and daydreams alot in class. You have to have good grades to get into Notre Dame. In fact, he gets rejected three times before finally getting in. Then once he's admitted to Notre Dame, he has the arduous task of actually making the football team. Eventually he does, but he's on the bench, never actually playing. He begs to be allowed to dress for just one game. He gets to play on the field in the last 30 seconds of the game or so and plays well.

I kind of have mixed feelings towards the guy. On one hand I greatly admire his level of persistence even in spite of past failures and succeeding against the odds. On the other hand, I kind of pity him. I felt like he wasted so much of his life just for that 30 seconds on the field. On the other hand, they made a movie after him and he became a motivational speaker afterwards, so he did become famous for his endeavor, so I guess not all is wasted.

The big question though, is what if he put all that effort into his goal and failed to make it? What if he never got to play on the field? Or if he never made the football team? Or if he never got admitted to Notre Dame? Then what? Would he have been able to successfully cope with a lost dream and all the time and energy wasted?

Such success stories are inspirational but they are rather the exception. What they rarely show though, are the people who gave it their all and did everything they could and still fell short. You rarely hear about the olympic hopefuls who fail to make the olympics, the people nominated for Nobel Prizes who don't win the prize, etc.

I'm not trying to be cynical here, just realistic. I am all for trying to be the best person you can be but also to have a realistic assessment of yourself. Do you really want to waste a good part of your life on something that just isn't going to happen?

It's like those sad moments of truth on American Idol when a person discovers that their friends and relatives have been encouraging them to sing because they have such a great voice and then Simon, Randy, and ?????? unanimously tell them that they can't hold a tune, their moves are awkward, and they have a strange thing they do with their eyes.

American Idol tends to look for people who would make good idols for the teen set, the types of people who have potential to be successful in the pop-music top-40 circuit. True, some of the people who audition for the show, just plain suck, but there are plenty of very talented people who fail miserably on American Idol. Such people may not fit the teen idol, top-40 pop star mold but they may have the potential to be very successful in other musical endeavors, like say, as a professional opera singer.

 

[Mole]

I have read and learned that certain institutions use MBTI.
Those institutions are run by Jews, Free Masons, Scientologists, and Morlocks.

The institution that uses MBTI is the USA military/industrial complex.

Yes, MBTI was specifically written for the USA military/industrial complex to prosecute a war.

And the USA military/industrial complex has been using MBTI for seventy years for the same purpose. But in all that time they have not done even one random double blind experiment to determine its legitimacy as a personality test. So plainly they use it for other purposes, namely to control and manipulate recruits and employees.

One of the greatest Presidents of the USA, Dwight D. Eisenhower, in his last speech to the nation warned us of the military/industrial complex.

And here am I, simply repeating his last warning to the nation, and you scoff at me.