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Asperger's Syndrome and MBTI type.

Patches

Klingon Warrior Princess
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Aug 4, 2010
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5,505
Decides to approach this thread with an Ni-Fi loop: Isn't autism/aspergers a conspiracy of the extroverts attempting to label introverts as dysfunctional?

Not all introverts are dysfunctional.

But those who are (socially) dysfunctional are most likely introverts.

You're looking at it backwards.
 

InvisibleJim

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Not all introverts are dysfunctional.

But those who are (socially) dysfunctional are most likely introverts.

You're looking at it backwards.

Or are some introverts willing to conform and others labelled as socially dysfunctional and are the truly dysfunctional a mire of extroverts and introverts?
 

Ivy

Strongly Ambivalent
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Isn't autism/aspergers a conspiracy of the extroverts attempting to label introverts as dysfunctional?

No. Autism isn't synonymous with introversion.
 

InvisibleJim

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No. Autism isn't synonymous with introversion.

Oh yes, you are perfectly correct there are extroverted autistics and aspergers I'm sure... but one should always analyse the quality of the testing criteria.

It should also be noted that both autism and aspergers have benefits to those with them, these aren't so much disabilities as a different way of ordering brain function which is deviant because it is 'not the norm'.

Autism Diagnosis said:
Diagnosis is based on behavior, not cause or mechanism. Autism is defined in the DSM-IV-TR as exhibiting at least six symptoms total, including at least two symptoms of qualitative impairment in social interaction, at least one symptom of qualitative impairment in communication, and at least one symptom of restricted and repetitive behavior. Sample symptoms include lack of social or emotional reciprocity, stereotyped and repetitive use of language or idiosyncratic language, and persistent preoccupation with parts of objects. Onset must be prior to age three years, with delays or abnormal functioning in either social interaction, language as used in social communication, or symbolic or imaginative play. The disturbance must not be better accounted for by Rett syndrome or childhood disintegrative disorder. ICD-10 uses essentially the same definition.

I've yet to see a socially labelled condition which requires one to be 'chatty and empathic' for it to occur.
 

Ivy

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Oh yes, you are perfectly correct there are extroverted autistics and aspergers I'm sure... but one should always analyse the quality of the testing criteria.

It should also be noted that both autism and aspergers have benefits to those with them, these aren't so much disabilities as a different way of ordering brain function which is deviant because it is 'not the norm'.

I've yet to see a socially labelled condition which requires one to be 'chatty and empathic' for it to occur.

I usually just call that "insufferable."

Something can be both a disability and a benefit at the same time. Autism often is. And many autistic people don't really get to experience the benefits.
 

Keps Mnemnosyne

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I've yet to see a socially labelled condition which requires one to be 'chatty and empathic' for it to occur.

Williams Syndrome http://www.cnsspectrums.com/aspx/articledetail.aspx?articleid=1382 (read the abstract for the quick view)

However it does not change the fact that this may only be a a tyranny of the normal society over the different individuals...You can see it in that light, however there is no objective proof. I could as easily argue out-group bias that individuals with your view point shown see themselves as different from others and are fighting a cohesive social group that is keeping them down even though the 'group' is not cohesive or in existence.

Personally, I do agree with you (and others) that labels are thrown around too loosely. Especially since they are used as insults or to suggest something is wrong with the person. OCD, autism, PMS, ADHD, etc, are good examples especially given the light that some of these 'disorders' may not even exist except as placebo disorders much like hysteria of the nineteenth century.
 

Patches

Klingon Warrior Princess
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Messages
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Personally, I do agree with you (and others) that labels are thrown around too loosely. Especially since they are used as insults or to suggest something is wrong with the person. OCD, autism, PMS, ADHD, etc, are good examples especially given the light that some of these 'disorders' may not even exist except as placebo disorders much like hysteria of the nineteenth century.

Im inclined to agree with you. Most of these things as just overdiagnosed because people (especially Americans) are over-medicated hypochondriacs.
 

unicorn010

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I avoid people that think if certain personalities don't all develop at the same pace they have something like that, why not let people live normal fucking lives.

ENTJ
 

Jaguar

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Messages
20,647
I avoid people that think if certain personalities don't all develop at the same pace they have something like that, why not let people live normal fucking lives.

ENTJ


I don't know you, but that's a kick-ass comment. Cheers!
 

wildcat

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Jun 8, 2007
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Thank you Morgan Le Fay. :)

My mother is IT. Si Te. She is not an autist.
IT is not about autism. Autism is about IT.

A very strong Si Te, she shows characteristics of autism.
Si is the complementary party of Ne. Te is the complementary party of Fi.
A Fi Ne can be an autist.
A Ne Fi is beyond the spectrum. Why?
It is the complementary party of Si Te.

You said there is no universal shape. A good observation.
If there is no universal shape, there is no universal threshold.
A distance is all there is.
Remove the complementary parties of all the ITs.
There you find the spectrum.
 

Siúil a Rúin

when the colors fade
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People with autism and Aspbergers are a varied lot, but there is a generalization they tend to be quite literal in their thinking and interpretation of language. I think there can be problems trying to align it with MBTI. I work with a rather extroverted person with Aspbergers, and being socially abrasive or unaware doesn't automatically make someone desire to be alone. The syndrome is especially traumatic for people who get their energy from the company of others and they may tend to use negative energy if their social perceptions keep them from having peaceful interactions.
 

Ivy

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I avoid people that think if certain personalities don't all develop at the same pace they have something like that, why not let people live normal fucking lives.

ENTJ

My son's diagnosis is meant to help him live a normal life. We had a choice of eschewing labels because labels are bad (which many people seem to think but can't quite articulate why), or accepting a label that would help people who encounter him in a school setting understand why he does things a bit differently from other kids instead of putting their own labels on him (lazy, disobedient, bratty, etc). It also means that we are able to ask for accommodations for him in school, and once those accommodations are codified his teachers are legally bound to follow them. He's able to get extra help for things that don't come naturally to him- auditory processing is VERY weak area for him, so his teacher has to provide him with visual aids and use a visual schedule to help him anticipate what comes next in the school day.

When you say "if certain personalities don't all develop at the same pace they have something like that" you're making a value judgment that "something like that" (autism) is a terrible, awful thing, akin to a death sentence, and must be avoided at all costs. That's just not so. It's simply an alternative brain wiring that causes individuals to think in sometimes radically different ways. I'm a big fan of neurodiversity and accepting differences among people- but that's doesn't mean I can't also be in favor of acknowledging developmental differences. A diagnosis means legal protection and accommodations in school. I'm all for anything that will ease the school experience for a kid who is different from the other kids.
 

cafe

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I have basically the same rationale as Ivy for allowing a label to be placed on my sons. They were obviously not low intelligence, but acted very differently than their peers in social/communication areas. A label was inevitable -- if I hadn't pursued an official label that got them some accommodations, they would have gotten the unofficial labels similar to what Ivy has mentioned -- lazy, stupid, immature. Rather than having that happen, I gave the school what they wanted (a label) so I could get what my boys needed. Now my older boy is in advanced math and reading in seventh grade and doing pretty well over all. He gets some coaching from the speech therapist, is allowed to leave his books in his classrooms, and has an obsolete laptop for writing assignments because he has some motor skill delays. They are also a little slower to give him detention if he's acting like a freak (he's an extrovert and thinks he's hilarious) than they otherwise would. I'm not sure if that part is good or not, but I'm not going to fuss about it.
 

Jaguar

Active member
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Messages
20,647
My son's diagnosis is meant to help him live a normal life. We had a choice of eschewing labels because labels are bad (which many people seem to think but can't quite articulate why), or accepting a label that would help people who encounter him in a school setting understand why he does things a bit differently from other kids instead of putting their own labels on him (lazy, disobedient, bratty, etc). It also means that we are able to ask for accommodations for him in school, and once those accommodations are codified his teachers are legally bound to follow them. He's able to get extra help for things that don't come naturally to him- auditory processing is VERY weak area for him, so his teacher has to provide him with visual aids and use a visual schedule to help him anticipate what comes next in the school day.

When you say "if certain personalities don't all develop at the same pace they have something like that" you're making a value judgment that "something like that" (autism) is a terrible, awful thing, akin to a death sentence, and must be avoided at all costs. That's just not so. It's simply an alternative brain wiring that causes individuals to think in sometimes radically different ways. I'm a big fan of neurodiversity and accepting differences among people- but that's doesn't mean I can't also be in favor of acknowledging developmental differences. A diagnosis means legal protection and accommodations in school. I'm all for anything that will ease the school experience for a kid who is different from the other kids.


Ivy, I agreed with unicorn's comment. That means everything you just wrote to unicorn could have been written to me. Why I agreed didn't even have anything to do with Asperger's, whatsoever. I agreed because of the incessant, reckless, labeling of people in general, and exacerbated by MBTI. I want to make that perfectly clear.
 

Srho

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Aug 25, 2010
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The people I know with Aspergers are the following types: INTP, ISTP, ISFP, and ENFP. Confirmed. I thought it would be simpler, since it seems such a J thing.
 

Hive

hypersane
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Nov 25, 2010
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1,233
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ISTP
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sx/sp
Considering some traits related to the diagnose like need for routine, trouble relating to other people's feelings and lack of imagination, my qualified guess is that ISTJ, ISTP and INTP are the most common types amongst the aspies.
 

GentJon

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Apr 29, 2011
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I found this place by Google, and just felt like sharing that I have tested as an ISFP on the MBTI, and long before that I was diagnosed with Asperger's. That is all.
 

Elfboy

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My son's diagnosis is meant to help him live a normal life. We had a choice of eschewing labels because labels are bad (which many people seem to think but can't quite articulate why), or accepting a label that would help people who encounter him in a school setting understand why he does things a bit differently from other kids instead of putting their own labels on him (lazy, disobedient, bratty, etc). It also means that we are able to ask for accommodations for him in school, and once those accommodations are codified his teachers are legally bound to follow them. He's able to get extra help for things that don't come naturally to him- auditory processing is VERY weak area for him, so his teacher has to provide him with visual aids and use a visual schedule to help him anticipate what comes next in the school day.

When you say "if certain personalities don't all develop at the same pace they have something like that" you're making a value judgment that "something like that" (autism) is a terrible, awful thing, akin to a death sentence, and must be avoided at all costs. That's just not so. It's simply an alternative brain wiring that causes individuals to think in sometimes radically different ways. I'm a big fan of neurodiversity and accepting differences among people- but that's doesn't mean I can't also be in favor of acknowledging developmental differences. A diagnosis means legal protection and accommodations in school. I'm all for anything that will ease the school experience for a kid who is different from the other kids.

I think labels are wonderfully usefully if used properly. today's society puts a political taboo on them, but I think this is incredibly stupid. not everyone is born the same and these differences affect the way we do things. that's one of the things I like about MBTI. it allows you to do MORE with your life, not less. it's just than an ESFJ and an INTJ are not going to do things the same way. an ESFJ might learn better in a larger group with an instructor more similar to traditional schooling, while an INTJ might be confused by this and need to study things on his own (my INTJ friend is a genius mentally, but he has to study everything before he does it. for instance, his dad made him fix a pipeline one time, and he had to spend a day studying the anatomy of the plumbing system and various factors that would affect the water flow/drain build up before he could do so much as fix a single pipe)
 

Elfboy

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sx/sp
Considering some traits related to the diagnose like need for routine, trouble relating to other people's feelings and lack of imagination, my qualified guess is that ISTJ, ISTP and INTP are the most common types amongst the aspies.

I would think INTJ even moreso. INTJs tend to get obsessed with things and are notorious for being "little professors" just like people with asperger's syndrome.
 
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