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What would the world do without Fe?

Amargith

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@ Pit: actually, I would love to hear more about that. About Fe itself. The Good, the Bad and the Ugly. What a 'healthy' Fe-user is like compared to one that's still maturing. And for that matter, if you recognize yourself in the ones that are still maturing, and if you therefore can better understand where they're coming from. And lastly, but definitely not leastly...*where* they actually come from, what their motivation is behind some of those behaviors, what causes them, etc. Coz that's what frustrates me..I can't fully relate, and it's like a gap in my puzzle that I really really hate *grumbles* :D
 

skylights

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*smiles* That's very much appreciated :hug:

I was more talking in general, also irl. Part of why you find so much Fi-talk here is coz..well frankly, I for one tend to be labelled weird at best...difficult and unethical at worst becoz I see and do things differently than most people out there. And that's partly due to Fi. Ironically, Fi tends to be about the search for who you are and you do that by analyzing yourself...put those things together, add a pinch of frustration and a place where you find others who can relate and voila..an internet forum where you can finally discover who you are and how others experience this.

agree 100%

i try to defend/explain Fi because Fi-related behavior/understanding is seen as selfish, inconsistent, fluffy, irrational, dramatic, emo, etc. it gets so much bad press, but i think there's a good side of it too. i'm to the point of saying "maybe there's not" because i internalize so much shit about Fi but i know that's me just overreacting and wanting attention, deep down i trust that there's a purpose and logically it doesn't make sense for it to exist at all if it's not of some good to us. i also genuinely want to know how other people understand it, as well as how to improve it in myself.

i'm just as curious about Fe, maybe even more so. i wish there was more talk about Fe. i just can't really talk about it myself because i don't understand it well.

and i feel like the hurt is on both sides of the equation - Fe feels like it's getting panned but so does Fi. someone a while back referred to "all the butthurt" or something, lol. i wish we could figure out a way of either avoiding it or getting past it, but we haven't seemed to get there yet. fwiw, i'm trying. anyone is welcome to tell me how i could do better. i do feel like i'm learning with the conversation about different outward behavior expressing hurt.

Seriously??? That really sucks. :( I am sorry to hear that. I would like to think I have a good basic understanding because I have been around so many Fi users. If that is what is really going on here, I wish that we could be understanding of each other. :D

you're awesome in general. :hug:

Now there is an insightful comment.

Where do people get the idea that unless Protean displays histrionic behavior, that she's not hurting? Because she comes across as a strong woman, she needs no support? Did it ever occur to anyone that Protean has probably been giving of herself so much her entire life, that she might not know how to ask for help or support to begin with? Ah, yes. Those who appear strongest need no help, no support, no friends.

Think again.

those who appear strongest appear not to want help, support, or friends.

who am i to assume that they do?

i'm not saying this to sound sarcastic, it's honest. if someone's outwardly rejecting others, then why is it right to assume that they don't really feel that way? maybe they do but if they don't, then it's not really fair to them to treat them that way, either. i can tell when emotion is off but i'm not always sure why, and i'm hesitant to make a decision. i don't know how i'm supposed to know for certain when someone wants support and when they don't, if they don't make it clear. and why is it my responsibility to figure out other people's inward thoughts? wouldn't they prefer to not have that privacy probed without invitation? and wouldn't people rather express themselves anyway, rather than having me guess?
 
G

Glycerine

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@ Pit: actually, I would love to hear more about that. About Fe itself. The Good, the Bad and the Ugly. What a 'healthy' Fe-user is like compared to one that's still maturing. And for that matter, if you recognize yourself in the ones that are still maturing, and if you therefore can better understand where they're coming from. And lastly, but definitely not leastly...*where* they actually come from, what their motivation is behind some of those behaviors, what causes them, etc. Coz that's what frustrates me..I can't fully relate, and it's like a gap in my puzzle that I really really hate *grumbles* :D
Ok. :)
The bad: Really sheltered Fe users can be rather judgmental because they aren't forced to look outside of their own perspective and develop their other functions. As a result, some of them of will dismiss others that are different from them and will have a tendency to flat out tell people what they think is best for them (but it's just from their perspective and they don't really consider the other person). I think I can come off a little like this when I am under emotional distress.

Good: When Fe users actually develop other functions and learn to look outside of their own perspectives, they can be quite charming, warm, open, truly tries to do things so that other people can reach their potential, encourage and accept of others but at the same time, they know how how to create group synergy. These people are truly genuine and if you ever meet one like this, you will see the awesomeness of Fe. Unfortunately, these Fe users seem to be above average users.

To be honest, I think I am an average Fe user but am working towards being an above average user. The Fe users that Fi users tend to complain about tend to annoy the crap out of me. I want to stay away from becoming someone like that.
 

Amargith

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Ok. :)
The bad: Really sheltered Fe users can be rather judgmental because they aren't forced to look outside of their own perspective and develop their other functions. As a result, some of them of will dismiss others that are different from them and will have a tendency to flat out tell people what they think is best for them (but it's just from their perspective and they don't really consider the other person). I think I can come off a little like this when I am under emotional distress.

Good: When Fe users actually develop other functions and learn to look outside of their own perspectives, they can be quite charming, warm, open, truly tries to do things so that other people can reach their potential, encourage and accept of others but at the same time, they know how how to create group synergy. These people are truly genuine and if you ever meet one like this, you willsee the awesomeness of Fe. Unfortunately, these Fe users seem to be above average users.

To be honest, I think I am an average Fe user but am working towards being an above average user. The Fe users that Fi users tend to complain about tend to annoy the crap out of me. I want to stay away from becoming someone like that.


This is awesome, keep going :D

So why is it that the bolded comes out when you're stressed. Does it cost you actual effort to consider the person in front of you, when they have a different perspective? Do you have to remind yourself of stepping outside your own box? And why is it that stress would trigger you to become more closed again?

Mmmm..ok, here's an assumption from my pov, feel free to tell me if I'm hot or cold:

When you're stressed, you probably have less energy/time/patience to create a group harmony, and you also become less patient in those that seem to obstruct your goal at that point, or the person who is in fact demanding your energy and ruining the group harmony. So you shortcut it, telling them to already man up and get in line.

If this is correct...does it also happen when you're alone with that same person? Do you still feel the need to create that groupharmony when it's...just the two of you? Or does that burden vanish then? *curious*
 
G

Glycerine

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This is awesome, keep going :D

So why is it that the bolded comes out when you're stressed. Does it cost you actual effort to consider the person in front of you, when they have a different perspective? Do you have to remind yourself of stepping outside your own box? And why is it that stress would trigger you to become more closed again?

Mmmm..ok, here's an assumption from my pov, feel free to tell me if I'm hot or cold:

When you're stressed, you probably have less energy/time/patience to create a group harmony, and you also become less patient in those that seem to obstruct your goal at that point, or the person who is in fact demanding your energy and ruining the group harmony. So you shortcut it, telling them to already man up and get in line.

If this is correct...does it also happen when you're alone with that same person? Do you still feel the need to create that groupharmony when it's...just the two of you? Or does that burden vanish then? *curious*
I think your assessment is pretty good but also it is sometimes like there is too much chaos, I need control or I am going to go crazy.
I tend to act more relaxed when it's one on one. Group situations can sometimes bring out the worst in me.
 

skylights

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It's called knowing people. That's it.

i still feel like it's assuming and intrusive even if i know someone well enough to make that guess. the fact remains that unless they say it, i don't for certain know.

and what is so hard about just coming out and saying "i'm hurt" instead of launching attacks at everyone around you? to me, that seems just as unsympathetic and unenlightened as not seeing that you might really be hurt.
 

onemoretime

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I'm beginning to think it's not so much functions as response patterns. I'm going to take an avoidance perspective on this one, in the realm of shame vs. guilt:

What we're calling "Fe" can manifest itself as an aversion to shame. The person seeing the world through the filter of Fe has an intense shame response, and consequently seeks to avoid it through socially acceptable behavior and a reliance on the esteem of others. The downside is that without an anchoring sense of guilt to pursue moral behavior, a person with this worldview can act immorally, as long as the group approves. When this is unstable, the "shunning" behavior manifests, as that person doesn't want to bear the transferred shame of association.

On the other hand, what we're calling "Fi" is primarily an aversion to guilt. The guilt response is far stronger than the shame response, and thus, the person seeks to avoid guilt through the strong adherence to a personal code of ethics. The downside is that these ethics need not be based on external reality, since guilt is a deeply personal experience, and so can seem capricious and random. Along with this, when unstable, there can be a deep aversion to admitting responsibility, since this necessarily involves a guilt response.

Ladies and gentlemen, have at it.
 

cascadeco

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No we're not. :) I try to understand people through psychology, sociology, social psychology, anthropology, (not so much art and literature :() things like that. I don't use MBTI and typology as my only reference. To me it seems like you use MBTI and typology as your only references because you so often try to map things that I believe are broad human behaviors as endemic to a specific function. I used a picture before already in the thread and asked people how do you untangle that? I doesn't mean it can't be untangled and I think we're trying to untangle it in our own ways.

What aspect of Fe values does this offend? I'm going to think about that. The strongest things I can identify is incomplete, oversimplified, and inaccurate.



I think this is a perfect example of you overextending a concept to Fe users. These are my interpretations of what you are saying here
  • "Fe users don't understand people who think differently than them."
  • "Fe users don't understand why people would think differently than them."
  • "Fe users think they understand people when they don't."
I hope I'm not twisting your statement in my mind and pulling things out of it that aren't there. Please correct me if I am. Honestly that's how I play that question back to myself and I think anyone can do any of those things so why is it "Fe users"?



I suppose I'm not seeing what alternative approaches you're giving. I think it's interesting that throughout this thread, there has been an insistence (by you) that the communication problems you encounter are universal between Fe and Fi. I'm sorry, I don't see how this is at all universal. The only proof you have of this assertion is you interactions with coworkers in her dysfunctional job environment which brings out the worse in people it seems. I've been in a toxic workplace so I know how it is. Everyone is looking for a reason why it is the way it is and doing their best to make some reason out of it.

I have steadily insisted that is not the case, that the communication difficulties you encounter are not strictly due to or even be mapped to Fe/Ti Fi/Te differences. I have tried to break things down into possible alternatives to why you're seeing you are:
  • office politics
  • fear-based work environment
  • indirect/direct communications
  • Interaction Styles
  • below I offer the economic climate

Do you consider those alternatives? IMO, all of those reasons supersede type and functions. Do you think those reasons supersede type and function? If you don't, then that's a communication gap right there: our definitions and examples of what constitute "alternatives" and where those reasons arise are vastly different. From what I can see, none of these have been addressed as stand alones on their own merit.

So yes, I can't really communicate with people who do this. If someone insists on saying Ti/Fe users cross their shoelaces to the right and Te/Fi cross theirs to the left and won't take into consideration the fact that it depends on if they're right-handed or left-handed or what method of shoe tying they were taught, or whether they have missing fingers, yes I am at a loss of what to say and it is frustrating. Additionally, I don't feel like I experience this as a problem in my real life interactions so to me yes, it does look like these issues are being exaggerated on the forum. I work with a mixture of FPs and TJs and for the most part, I feel like we're on the same page about things. Time will tell and as situations and problems crop up I'll see if that continues to be the case, but quite honestly EVERYONE seems quite invested on keeping things even-keeled and stable and ere towards overcommunication rather than undercommunication. Meaning things get restated five different ways and you feel like saying, "OK I get it!!"

I made a thread a while ago asking people when can you legitimately map a behavior or action to someone's type. http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/mbti-tm-other-personality-matrices/1219-when-type.html (whoa that was different me!) I do believe that communication style can manifest through type, so I'm not arguing against that. I do argue against and disagree that type is the main determiner of communication style. I'm beginning to see that if it helps you, do what helps you to understand. I do wonder what happens when someone (or a whole lot of someones) don't fit and I hope that you can react to them without being confounded because they're not behaving according to your model.

When you gave your example of what constitutes indirect communication, someone says "We need help but we don't know who will do it" which is direct to me, I understood that you are probably more responsive to orders and directives and anything less than that is indirect to you. This is why once again I say that if you're in an office environment with very strict hierarchical structure and I believe this is more a result of the culture and structure of the organization and how people respond to that structure than the people themselves.

Also please take into consideration that in the current economic environment, people are very wary to do anything that would land their head on the chopping block. When people's livelihoods are at stake or they feel they're caught between the proverbial devil and the deep blue sea, it's probably going to produce some reactions that are atypical. When people are under stress for an extended amount of time, you are going to see stressed personality traits and unnatural responses. A person who is typically very engaged and involved can become passive and apathetic (that's what happened to me). Frankly, I hope my old job burns to the ground without a brick left to speak of its existence, lol.

I'm still disappointed that these questions/thoughts were never addressed:( Only because I think this entire post is awesome and reflects many of the ways I look at things. Well, not only that: the fact that it just kinda fell by the wayside seems to indicate protean wasn't exactly 'heard' or acknowledged/understood either -- there was no interaction/dialogue related to this post (well, that wasn't soon deleted).

We've gone from such interesting topics such as all of above, to once again equating Fe solely to Group Harmony and Fi to not caring about the group (in the simplest of terms).
 

Qre:us

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I'm beginning to think it's not so much functions as response patterns. I'm going to take an avoidance perspective on this one, in the realm of shame vs. guilt:

What we're calling "Fe" can manifest itself as an aversion to shame. The person seeing the world through the filter of Fe has an intense shame response, and consequently seeks to avoid it through socially acceptable behavior and a reliance on the esteem of others. The downside is that without an anchoring sense of guilt to pursue moral behavior, a person with this worldview can act immorally, as long as the group approves. When this is unstable, the "shunning" behavior manifests, as that person doesn't want to bear the transferred shame of association.

On the other hand, what we're calling "Fi" is primarily an aversion to guilt. The guilt response is far stronger than the shame response, and thus, the person seeks to avoid guilt through the strong adherence to a personal code of ethics. The downside is that these ethics need not be based on external reality, since guilt is a deeply personal experience, and so can seem capricious and random. Along with this, when unstable, there can be a deep aversion to admitting responsibility, since this necessarily involves a guilt response.

Ladies and gentlemen, have at it.

You can feel shameful in private.

I feel shame, without anyone knowing, just like I feel guilt.

However, for me to feel embarrassed - there must be a public there. Someone's eyes that watch.
 

onemoretime

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You can feel shameful in private.

I feel shame, without anyone knowing, just like I feel guilt.

However, for me to feel embarrassed - there must be a public there. Someone's eyes that watch.

Right - embarrassment is public shame. That's why it's worse than simply being ashamed of oneself.
 

skylights

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That's you. It's not me. We differ. End of story.

:doh:

that's obvious though, isn't it? i'm trying to demonstrate my understanding of the situation to show how someone else may be interpreting it.

and i mean my questions honestly. if i need to reach out to someone else by trying to divine whether or not they are actually hurting, then isn't it also reasonable to expect them to also reach out to me by trying to let me know what is going on inside? it's what poki was saying before about reaching out to attempt to communicate in a way that the other person will more easily understand.

-

anyway yeah... i feel more guilt than shame. i don't really feel much shame. i feel embarrassed, or stupid, but not fundamentally ashamed of who i am or what i've done. i don't really understand shame, but for me guilt manifests in wanting to help make reparations for any hurt i caused. it's not like i can take what i did back, so i'd rather just go about helping fix things and understanding what i did so i can try to prevent it for next time.

Wikipedia said:
According to cultural anthropologist Ruth Benedict, shame is a violation of cultural or social values while guilt feelings arise from violations of one's internal values. Thus, it is possible to feel ashamed of thought or behavior that no one knows about and to feel guilty about actions that gain the approval of others.

Psychoanalyst Helen B. Lewis argued that "The experience of shame is directly about the self, which is the focus of evaluation. In guilt, the self is not the central object of negative evaluation, but rather the thing done is the focus."[5] Similarly, Fossum and Mason say in their book Facing Shame that "While guilt is a painful feeling of regret and responsibility for one's actions, shame is a painful feeling about oneself as a person."[6] Following this line of reasoning, Psychiatrist Judith Lewis Herman concludes that "Shame is an acutely self-conscious state in which the self is 'split,' imagining the self in the eyes of the other; by contrast, in guilt the self is unified."

yeah. defining it like this, i feel more guilt.
 
G

garbage

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if i need to reach out to someone else by trying to divine whether or not they are actually hurting, then isn't it also reasonable to expect them to also reach out to me by trying to let me know what is going on inside?

Yes. Totally reasonable. Communication's a two-way street.

My approach has typically been to hypothesize about what the other person is feeling and ask probing questions from there, rather than speculating and acting on that speculating. More information about a situation is always good.

A person's pissed? Well, that's usually pretty obvious. Pissed about what? Well, you can guess based upon context. Is your guess going to be absolutely accurate? No. So, ask questions and treat the situation lightly.

Will probing always work? No.


I default to bridging the gap and attempting to meet others where they are. If we could all make a half-attempt at a habit like that, we'd have more effective communication overall.
 

Jaguar

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if i need to reach out to someone else by trying to divine whether or not they are actually hurting, then isn't it also reasonable to expect them to also reach out to me by trying to let me know what is going on inside?

So you have some tarot cards, ay? ;)
 

skylights

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So you have some tarot cards, ay? ;)

dowsing%20rod-thumb-350x532.jpg


dowsing rod, lulz ;)
 

Heart&Brain

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Re Orobas-drama: I want to tell Protean, Jag etc. that I agree completely with their reading of the phonyness in the situation.

Histrionic displays of "feelings" are indeed "felt" by the histrionic, but they are felt as a fleeting, shallow and instrumental means to a hidden end: attention (= other people's feelings of pity, praise, admiration, respect, sympathy, fear, submission, affection etc.). Attention is needed as a desperate, neverending quest to fill the void where genuine, grounded feelings should have been, had something not gone wrong in the childhood stabilising of the ego.

Histrionic displays of "feelings" simulate (in the short run successfully) the outer expressions the sufferers believe to see in others. It's almost like the NLP-stereotype of 'fake-it-till-you-make-it' hope. But most likely HPD-sufferers aren't even aware of the difference from normal emotions, since the disorder is ego-syntonic. They simply don't know any better. Which is why HDP is notoriously hard to cure, like all ego-syntonic disorders.

HPD is not very common and most people are initially unsuspecting and in good faith when confronted with it. Thus HPD-sufferers can initially make nice and understanding people pay the displayer a lot of attention because we'll assume the displays are genuine and not just (ironically genuine) manipulative fishing for attention to fill their inner void.

Re Fe and Fi, those nice, understanding providers of a shortlived attention-fix can both be Fi or Fe people of course, though I could speculate that Fe-people are somewhat quicker to see through the smoke screens and react to being fooled. We Fi'ers tend perhaps to excuse inconsistent and erratic behavior with individual beauty, because this approach to people gives us valuable understanding in 99% of the cases. Only it won't get us anywhere with HPD. Dunno - could there be a Fe-Fi difference here?

FYI:

Wikipedia on Histrionic Personality Disorder (HPD):

"Mnemonic:
A mnemonic that can be used to remember the criteria for histrionic personality disorder is PRAISE ME:

* P - provocative (or seductive) behavior
* R - relationships, considered more intimate than they are
* A - attention, must be at center of
* I - influenced easily
* S - speech (style) - wants to impress, lacks detail
* E - emotional lability, shallowness

* M - make-up - physical appearance used to draw attention to self
* E - exaggerated emotions - theatrical

Characteristics
People with this disorder are usually able to function at a high level and can be successful socially and professionally. People with histrionic personality disorder usually have good social skills, but they tend to use these skills to manipulate other people and become the center of attention. Furthermore, histrionic personality disorder may affect a person's social or romantic relationships or their ability to cope with losses or failures.

People with this disorder lack genuine empathy. They start relationships well but tend to falter when depth and durability are needed, alternating between extremes of idealization and devaluation. They may seek treatment for depression when romantic relationships end, although this is by no means a feature exclusive to this disorder.

They often fail to see their own personal situation realistically, instead tending to dramatize and exaggerate their difficulties. They may go through frequent job changes, as they become easily bored and have trouble dealing with frustration. Because they tend to crave novelty and excitement, they may place themselves in risky situations. All of these factors may lead to greater risk of developing depression.

Additional symptoms include:
* Exhibitionist behavior.
* Constant seeking of reassurance or approval.
* Excessive dramatics with exaggerated displays of emotions.
* Excessive sensitivity to criticism or disapproval.
* Inappropriately seductive appearance or behavior.
* Excessive concern with physical appearance.
* Somatic symptoms, and using these symptoms as a means of garnering attention.
* A need to be the center of attention.
* Low tolerance for frustration or delayed gratification.
* Rapidly shifting emotional states that may appear superficial or exaggerated to others.
* Tendency to believe that relationships are more intimate than they actually are.
* Making rash decisions.


I'm copy-pasting this list of histrionic traits knowing very well that I am in no position to make any diagnosis on anybody. But I think it would be a pity for the mutual understanding of introverted and extraverted Feeling functions if personality-displays that are, as it were, not typical for any of them but for a personality disorder, where taken for a display of standard Fi-ness.

As an ENFP it has bothered me to observe in many threads for several months, that O has excused her self with Fi and assumed authority on what ENFP-hood is. I do not feel represented.
 
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skylights

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bologna said:
Yes. Totally reasonable. Communication's a two-way street.

My approach has typically been to hypothesize about what the other person is feeling and ask probing questions from there, rather than speculating and acting on that speculating. More information about a situation is always good.

A person's pissed? Well, that's usually pretty obvious. Pissed about what? Well, you can guess based upon context. Is your guess going to be absolutely accurate? No. So, ask questions and treat the situation lightly.

Will probing always work? No.

I default to bridging the gap and attempting to meet others where they are. If we could all make a half-attempt at a habit like that, we'd have more effective communication overall.

sweet. this sounds reasonable to me. :yes:

i think i try to do something similar IRL, but probably lean less to the questioning side. i think i'll try doing that more.

I'm still disappointed that these questions/thoughts were never addressed:( Only because I think this entire post is awesome and reflects many of the ways I look at things. Well, not only that: the fact that it just kinda fell by the wayside seems to indicate protean wasn't exactly 'heard' or acknowledged/understood either -- there was no interaction/dialogue related to this post (well, that wasn't soon deleted).

We've gone from such interesting topics such as all of above, to once again equating Fe solely to Group Harmony and Fi to not caring about the group (in the simplest of terms).

if there are things in her post that you'd like to see discussed, you could quote the parts of it you want to talk about and start talking about them, instead of implying that the rest of us have disappointed you by not talking about them? i don't mean this in a heated way, it just seems like if you'd like something discussed, you should start the conversation...

anyway i agree with pretty much everything proteanmix said in that post but i don't really have a huge amount to say about it besides that. it's not out of lack of respect or interest or anything, and i did read it at the time and i re-read it now.

i think out of everything i particularly agree with her point that communication style can manifest through, but is not determined by, type. i think i communicate in a more Te-like fashion than anything, and if you were to read my creative writing it's pretty intensive Se.

my dad and brother are both INTPs, and they communicate pretty differently in some aspects, though similarly in others. dad is REALLY blatant. he completely lacks tact, lol. we were joking about it at dinner tonight. my brother is much more indirect about things. he's a master at distraction, too. the kid can be jumping on the bed and mom will come in, and he'll point out how i didn't do the dishes like i was supposed to have, or whatever. i want to :angry: him sometimes, lol... but he gets a lot like dad when he's angry. dad just gets angry and blatant, lol.

but about not responding to the post in depth, hey, maybe it's more of a Ne-Ni difference than anything even related to Fe or Fi, much less disrespect or disinterest. i just tend to run away with and talk about whatever i feel like and whatever occurs and jump all over the place. it makes sense that Ni would be more inclined to dig in. fidelia posted something in the ENFP thread not too long ago pointing out that we weren't really answering all of her questions... which was true, lol, and i love fidelia and her questions. i guess i just don't really notice as much when people jump all over and out of order and leaving certain things untouched. i expect you'll respond to what you find most important and the conversation will flow from there. there are so many things to talk about! everything is related, so i don't see it as missing the point when people deviate a bit...
 

cascadeco

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if there are things in her post that you'd like to see discussed, you could quote the parts of it you want to talk about and start talking about them, instead of implying that the rest of us have disappointed you by not talking about them? i don't mean this in a heated way, it just seems like if you'd like something discussed, you should start the conversation...

This is true, however in this case it seemed to be in more of an Fe/Fi context/dialogue, so I found it more noteworthy that other Fi's (whether NFP's, or NTJ's, or STJ's, etc) weren't inclined to delve into it, that's all. It just seemed indicative of...something. lol. I've noticed it myself in other threads as well -- seemingly really interesting, thought-provoking posts being disregarded. That's all. It's most definitely not tied to any one type/function - I mean, it happens in all threads, with all functions. So I don't mean to imply that at all.

Yes, you're right, I could have quoted parts. Perhaps I need to do better at that in the future, and just 'endorse' posts I totally agree with. haha. ;) In this case, the thread ended up spinning into a totally different direction, and I belatedly chose to quote it, quoting the entire thing and saying I agreed. :smile: I'm not sure I myself could have added anything, as like I said I agreed with all of it; in other words, there wasn't anything for me to really dissect because I've written similar things on here in the past. Again, was just pointing out what I found interesting -- that no one bit on it. That's all.

anyway i agree with pretty much everything proteanmix said in that post but i don't really have a huge amount to say about it besides that. it's not out of lack of respect or interest or anything, and i did read it at the time and i re-read it now.

i think out of everything i particularly agree with her point that communication style can manifest through, but is not determined by, type. i think i communicate in a more Te-like fashion than anything, and if you were to read my creative writing it's pretty intensive Se.

my dad and brother are both INTPs, and they communicate pretty differently in some aspects, though similarly in others. dad is REALLY blatant. he completely lacks tact, lol. we were joking about it at dinner tonight. my brother is much more indirect about things. he's a master at distraction, too. the kid can be jumping on the bed and mom will come in, and he'll point out how i didn't do the dishes like i was supposed to have, or whatever. i want to :angry: him sometimes, lol... but he gets a lot like dad when he's angry. dad just gets angry and blatant, lol.

Glad to hear your input!

but about not responding to the post in depth, hey, maybe it's more of a Ne-Ni difference than anything even related to Fe or Fi, much less disrespect or disinterest. i just tend to run away with and talk about whatever i feel like and whatever occurs and jump all over the place. it makes sense that Ni would be more inclined to dig in. fidelia posted something in the ENFP thread not too long ago pointing out that we weren't really answering all of her questions... which was true, lol, and i love fidelia and her questions. i guess i just don't really notice as much when people jump all over and out of order and leaving certain things untouched. i expect you'll respond to what you find most important and the conversation will flow from there. there are so many things to talk about! everything is related, so i don't see it as missing the point when people deviate a bit...

This is true; I have noticed Ni tends to dig in deeper, and stick on topic and want to delve fully. However, I don't think it's strictly Ni, as I have also noticed that NTJ's *tend* not to respond to NiFe type responses. As a general trend.
 

Zarathustra

Let Go Of Your Team
Joined
Oct 31, 2009
Messages
8,110
This is true; I have noticed Ni tends to dig in deeper, and stick on topic and want to delve fully. However, I don't think it's strictly Ni, as I have also noticed that NTJ's *tend* not to respond to NiFe type responses. As a general trend.

Interesting that you've noticed this...

Often times, when I read an INFJ's post, I just go, "well, he/she looks at things differently than I do," and then I move on...

And it's in a way that is particular to INFJs... I see how they're reframing the issue (Ni), and I think they are perfectly reasonable, it's just...

It's just not a frame that tastes all that good to my palate... :cheese:
 
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