Gender Differences

[Chris_in_Orbit]

I agree. I don't understand why they used the terminology of having a predominantly male or female brain. There may be differences seen between the sexes but just because you have a brain similar to most men does not make you a man...so yeah, some better wording would be nice. =)

When someone doesn't fit the stereotype I always take it neutrally, or I use it to realize that no stereotype is 100% accurate 100% of the time. Just be yourself; thats all you can be right?

Also, on the note of being "special" because you are different... I don't like to think that way. We all have traits that set us apart from others. Even with MBTI claiming that INFjs/INTJs are the rarest type, I don't think you should feel special because of it. Every single human being is special because they are alive, its as simple as that.

 

[Ilah]

Some people claim that certain rare types (generally INTP and INTJ) enjoy being rare types because it makes them feel special or superior. I have not felt this way myself and I don't know how common this really is.

I enjoy being a rare type because the alternative is abnormal, freak, "something wrong with her," etc.

 

[Brendan]

No, it's actually completely true.

Perhaps in different cultures, but in the United States, women on average talk and communicate more than men, and the portions of their brains devoted to language are more developed, a result of higher levels of estrogen. This higher level of estrogen relating to verbal fluency is also evidenced by the fact that gay men (particularly those who have older brothers) have higher levels of verbal fluency, and a good portion of gay men are younger siblings to older brothers. And it is well known and documented that when a woman has more than one boy, the younger boys receive less testosterone hormone waves than their older brothers.

So no, women and men do not talk on average the same amount. Even if this weren't scientifically documented, it's common sense.

 

[Chris_in_Orbit]

Perhaps in different cultures, but in the United States, women on average talk and communicate more than men, and the portions of their brains devoted to language are more developed, a result of higher levels of estrogen. This higher level of estrogen relating to verbal fluency is also evidenced by the fact that gay men (particularly those who have older brothers) have higher levels of verbal fluency, and a good portion of gay men are younger siblings to older brothers. And it is well known and documented that when a woman has more than one boy, the younger boys receive less testosterone hormone waves than their older brothers.

So no, women and men do not talk on average the same amount. Even if this weren't scientifically documented, it's common sense.

Just no. Every point of view has some validity so don't diss it before you look it up yourself. I find it interesting that you use "common sense" as an argument as well. There have been studies which show that men and women talk the same amount. Check this article: Men, Women Talk the Same Amount

I was OK with you saying estrogen levels increase how much a person speaks but every male and female aren't given the same dose of estrogen. Like you said yourself, boys generally get less testosterone the more older brothers they have.

Both of your view points can be thought about further but how is it that common sense supports your argument?

Common sense is by definition a collection of judgements created by a specific culture. I'll tell you right now that common sense is not infallible. If you really believe women talk more, please give a bit more of a solid argument..

 

[01011010]

Every time I take a gender related test, I come out female. :rolli:

Anyhow, Wildcat, I find the statement about gender corelation too generalized. I think the doubts about this become more apparent when we look at it from a process specific level. For instance, I have witnessed, in all manners, a great deal of men who clearly posess very high Fi.

It think you will find that the accuracy of these matches changes depending on what circumstances you are observing.

Agreed.

I test male. On every single type of gender test. From testing whether my brain prefers more "masculine" functions, down to the style of my writing.

 

[Giggly]

I thought most of our gender differences (and gender roles) were primarily due to our physical differences?

 

[Eldanen]

I'm ENTP, quite sure, and also ENTp in Socionics. When I took the BBC Brain Gender quiz, I came up as exactly center between male and female. Of course, I'm gay, so maybe that plays a part.

 

[Ilah]

I thought most of our gender differences (and gender roles) were primarily due to our physical differences?

Are you counting differences in brain chemistry as physical differences?

 

[substitute]

During my study of the English language and its usage by those who use it, I learned that women hypercorrect far more than men, especially when reading aloud (that is, speak more 'posh' than they naturally do or would considering their backgrounds and/or give pronunciation values to letters or words that they THINK are 'prestige' but which 'real' prestige background people don't use) and that they also are more likely to adopt accents that are more 'prestige' than their origins or backgrounds would naturally give them. Various details in these studies basically suggest women to be more socially ambitious than men, more concerned with what class they're seen as etc, whilst men's ambition tends to be more material, to do more purely with actual quality of life. He might want to be seen as rich and be envied, but he's less likely to want to hide that he comes from the trailor park than his wife.

That is, take a man and his wife who both come from a poor background in a redneck community. Say the guy's been to college and got a law degree and they're now wealthy and they're standing on the golf range at Beverley Hills. The guy's still talking with his redneck accent but the woman has somehow lost hers, at least when they're out.

IOW, women are more prone to class-based pretentiousness than men. This reminds me of my aunt who hasn't visited my mom, her own sister, for fifteen years because my mom lives in social housing and my aunt can't bear to be seen even in the area. Even though they grew up in social housing.

------

I could go on forever about the differences in male and female behaviours, expectations, and general experience of life which I've learned from my own experience of having lived significant portions of my life in both gender roles. But my experience of what happens when I start to talk about that has led me to be reluctant to do so.

 

[Kora]

I always thought those differences where caused by our Prehistory times.
Women should be more 'Feeling' since they should take care of the chidlren, and man should be 'Thinking' since they went to hunt and all.

I think it's true that nowadays women are more prone (or better said, expected) to F than T, and men to T than F... but, isn't this a wonderful society in which we are all the same?

 

[Kaizer]

I thought most of our gender differences (and gender roles) were primarily due to our physical differences?

you mean that physiology breeds psychology? I agree, but that the environment plays a role and so say Marie Curie was less 'feminine' than say Jessica Beil... Striped Pant suit Jacketed Clinton less 'feminine' than .. oh some bubbly intern ?

 

[Dwigie]

Oh I took that one around 2 or a year ago I was smack in the middle a bit of both.

 

[Totenkindly]

I think it's true that nowadays women are more prone (or better said, expected) to F than T, and men to T than F... but, isn't this a wonderful society in which we are all the same?

Was this sarcasm?

 

[GZA]

Definitely not T/F. As I've said many a time around here, my own theory is that it's female sexuality verse male sexuality that makes it different. When seeing that, keep in mind that I use the broad definition of sexuality in this idea, which is everything from gender identity (i.e. I am a male, which will then influence what you do and how you do it to some degree) to sexual attraction (which also influences what you do and how). This also ties in with social things (i.e. what is socially sen as feminin, or sexual) that dictate a lot of stuff, too. I think sexuality effects everything in extremely subtle ways.

I don't know if that explains any specific psychology, but in general I think it explains why men and women behave different.

But I don't know shit

 

[Giggly]

you mean that physiology breeds psychology? I agree, but that the environment plays a role and so say Marie Curie was less 'feminine' than say Jessica Beil... Striped Pant suit Jacketed Clinton less 'feminine' than .. oh some bubbly intern ?

Sure, but I didn't only mean how we look, but also in our physical and biological capabilities.

 

[Kaizer]

Sure, but I didn't only mean how we look, but also in our physical and biological capabilities.

Its all related as I see it, so when I said 'physiology' I meant the brain-body combination difference between genders... so physical, biological, psychological, mental.. hence everything.. I guess it also points towards the traditional-ish sorta hackneyed tussle b/w predisposition & gender roles etc.

 

[EJCC]

I don't know if anyone's brought this up already, but 75% of women are Fs. Methinks 'tis the estrogen hard at work?

Meyers-Briggs Statistics

 

[wildcat]

Thank you, all. Very many good posts.
This topic seems to interest people, esp. in the MBTIc. So many of us go transgender.
It did not seem to interest people in the INTPc at all.

here is some reading on the topic

Hoagies' Gifted: Gender Issues

The interesting article of Jane Piirto is included, based on the MBTI.

 

[kyuuei]

The main issue for me is how you describe the person who doesn't fit the stereotype. Are they are rare type, which is neutral or even positive? Or are they abnormal or a freak?

My main issue was not the test itself, but the terms used. If the test said most women are type E, but you are type L, I would be okay with that. I'm used to being a rare type. I took an on-line personality type recently where they asked some background information on gender, age, education level. At the end they compared my results to others in my demographic. I didn't match any of them, but I didn't mind at all.

The problem I have is that they used very old, conventional and convenient ways of applying their 'facts' to the test. To say women are mostly E, is to imply that women in general get their energy from others, rather than within. I know better than that.. When it comes to gender, we have stereotypes and that's all. Generalizations are too borderline across the board for most gender-specific traits. From one's personal experiences, they may agree on one or another.. but altogether they seem quite useless when it comes to arguments, facts, and research or debate.. making them useless for me.

 

[LunarMoon]

I often criticize gender destinction studies on pragmatic grounds, as well. That is too say, I don't find them useful. When making decisions about someone, we should always base it on their individual merit. So, even if it just happened that the two genders tended toward different traits, it would still be irrelevant, because we'll never put it to use.

I personally believe in seeking knowledge for its own sake. Seemingly, worthless scientific findings may prove invaluable to progress in the future, as was the case with accidental discovery of penicillin, but the act of obtaining the data requires a passion for the practice itself. The most successful scientists enjoy their jobs and it would seem imprudent to discourage it.

How about I answer?
Real (representative sample) studies show that.
-Women and men are equally good at throwing a ball with thier non-dominant hand. (I will always find this a great example in 'how to remove the culture influence')
-Women and men on average talk exactly the same amount.

I'm just getting started here.

Where did you find this information? Most of the Big Five studies I find point to Extroversion being generally higher in women. I’ve never heard the first example you posted, the one involving the dominant hand, but I would also be interested in reading that.

The question is if there is indeed a sex difference between Thinkers and Feelers, whether these difference are cultural or biological. Are women naturally predisposed to becoming Feelers are does the culture in which the study was taken socially condition young girls into thinking in such a fashion? I believe a personality-based study throughout several differing nations is in order.