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Somatotype (Body-Type) and Personality

Psychdigg

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Still don't see any T. What have you got against F. Extreme endomorphs are targets for insults. There is no way someone is going to get in an argument with you without using the "F" word. And I don't mean the four letter F word. I can't help but think that to protect oneself an endomorph might develop the defensive stance of a thinking or ectomorphic type. But that would be one of those maladaptations that generate tension.

Once you are out of school in the real world you find a circle of true friends and can start to put your guard down.

I'm really out on a theoretical limb here and ready to fall off. But I would sincerely like to know what you discover about yourself by the time you reach 30.
 

Haphazard

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Umm. No.

Wait. Whenever I get sick I lose weight and I do not gain it back. If I continue on the route I've been going, by the time I'm 20 I could very well be the ENFJ you think I'm not. It's like I don't have an equilibrium. Does this mean that every time I get sick, I change personalities?
 

Kasper

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Still no T?

It appears that if you're more Endo than Ecto you are a F, if you're the other way inclined you are a T, so you're flat outta luck in this chicken race!

I'd be in eFf territory myself by the looks of things. SF at that, I believe.
 

Haphazard

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It appears that if you're more Endo than Ecto you are a F, if you're the other way inclined you are a T, so you're flat outta luck in this chicken race!

I'd be in eFf territory myself by the looks of things. SF at that, I believe.

So there's no such thing as a fat T?

Uh oh, I'd better go tell the engineering department...
 

angell_m

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Angell M:

INFP's usually are higher in both endomorphy and ectomorphy with mesomorphy lower than either.
For example 5,2,4 or 4,1.5,4

So tell me your height and weight age 20 and 30 (if you are that old).

24 year old
male
178 centimeters
can't go below 54 kilograms
can't go above 62 kilograms
 

Kasper

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So there's no such thing as a fat T?

Uh oh, I'd better go tell the engineering department...

Iunno, you'd have to ask psychdigg for his take on that. Has there ever been an overweight person who was more Ecto than Endo, what would that look like?
 

Psychdigg

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Trinity:

Overweight is a relative term. Some people are naturally heavy. Some people are naturally skinny. There is no ideal type. But there is an ideal weight for each type.

Here is an example of an overweight endomorphic ectomorph.

Endo 6.5 Meso 1.5 Ecto 7.0 7ft 1" male can get up to 345 pounds but should keep his weight to about 302 pounds.
 

Kasper

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I understand that each type has a different makeup in terms of natural body type.

But would your average obese looking person by social standards be strongly Endo? Or could they be a way outta whack Ecto?
 

skylights

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Iunno, you'd have to ask psychdigg for his take on that. Has there ever been an overweight person who was more Ecto than Endo, what would that look like?

actually, until now - and perhaps i am off - i thought somatotype had a lot more to do with build than weight. like, you can have ecto, endo, and meso of all sizes, even though ectos generally tend to be skinnier, endos to be heavier, and mesos to be in between. my grandpa had a book about somatotype that i would peruse occasionally when i was at his house, and this is what i seem to remember...

  • ecto is very straight and tends to have evenly-distributed long muscle fiber (aerobic/endurance body, like a marathoner's). their amount of muscle and fat tend to both be low, and it's relatively difficult for them to gain weight. when they're skinnier, they are very "stringy", and when fatter, they tend to get a paunch or belly, but still be lanky overall.
  • meso is thicker and more muscular, with short-twitch muscle fiber (anaerobic/intensity body, like a sprinter or weight lifter's). their amount of muscle is higher than their amount of fat, and they tend to maintain weight. when they're skinnier, they have really defined musculature, and when fatter, they have a very solid/chunky appearance. (i was a bit overweight for a while and can vouch for this one. i wasn't so much round as thick.)
  • endo is "softer", more curvy and fluid, with fairly even amounts of short- and long-twitch muscles (like a jazz dancer), and it's relatively easy for them to gain a little weight. they have more of an even layer of fat covering their muscle. when skinnier, they have a very lithe, slender appearance, and when heavier, they have a more rounded appearance.

not that i have much of any opinion on all of this, besides that body type is very much genetic, and weight may correlate with body type but it is heavily influenced by behavior. as for the correlation between MBTI type and somatotype... correlation perhaps, strong correlation probably not, and causation, no
 

Kasper

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Sounds about right to me, at least that's how I understand them. I have an issue with assigning that to a type but without the MBTI connection I find it interesting to know about.
 

Psychdigg

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Haphazzard:

Hopefully you DON'T keep getting sick. Growing up means trying on a lot of different bodies. We go from 18 inches and 8 pounds at birth all the way up to what we are finally going to have to accept. At 18 years you haven't had that body very long and there's nothing wrong with trying different personas. At some point the role playing ends and real life takes over. Personality tests are woefully unreliable. However the personality sketches that accompany the tests are useful in learning about the varieties of personality. It's a long journey so you have to keep searching and comparing until you find the right fit. Nobody can do that for you. Even if my system works and can be proven scientifically accurate - it won't do you any good if you don't understand it.
I'm not looking for people with a "will to believe" but for those with a "will to find out".
 

Psychdigg

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The average obese looking person is going to be at least a 5 endomorph.

Marlon Brando is an interesting example.

Marlon Brando 5½, 4,2½,(5½) Height 69.0 inches

Trunk Index: 1.30

Weight Pattern: 177,200,217,229

Myers Briggs Type: INFJ

I got the somatotype of Brando off of his younger movies. His roles called for a tough looking rugged individual that could punch anyone out that wanted to confront him.

But he was just the average male mesomorph. You would never have guessed that he would get as fat as he eventually did. But, unchecked endomorphy can overwhelm a person. But endomorphy needs to be at least 5 to do its work.

If you don't believe he was an INFJ read his biography. Very active and concerned about politics and civil rights.
 

Psychdigg

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Angel M

Accuracy suffers without a proper photograph. But you are quite ectomorphic.

Endo 2.0 Meso 2.5 Ecto 5.5

INTJ area
 
Last edited:

Haphazard

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Haphazzard:

Hopefully you DON'T keep getting sick. Growing up means trying on a lot of different bodies. We go from 18 inches and 8 pounds at birth all the way up to what we are finally going to have to accept. At 18 years you haven't had that body very long and there's nothing wrong with trying different personas. At some point the role playing ends and real life takes over. Personality tests are woefully unreliable. However the personality sketches that accompany the tests are useful in learning about the varieties of personality. It's a long journey so you have to keep searching and comparing until you find the right fit. Nobody can do that for you. Even if my system works and can be proven scientifically accurate - it won't do you any good if you don't understand it.
I'm not looking for people with a "will to believe" but for those with a "will to find out".

But if we look at this, the only way I've gained weight was through hormonal treatments, which we all know fuck up the body quite good. I've lost weight many times because of illness and never gained it back. Wouldn't this be a signal that I actually do NOT gain weight easily like an endomorph?
 

Chloe

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Chloee: 5'6" inches is tall for a woman. That's about equal to 6 feet for a man. Because of sexual dimorphism men are about 4 or 5 inches taller than women. Ectomorphy is pretty much how tall a person is for what they have to carry in the way of fat and muscle. The reason I ask if you are active in sports is to see how much of your weight is an expression of mesomorphy. So you are both Endo and Ecto but you have enough meso to move you toward the middle. If you were less meso you would be more intp or possibly bumping up against the infp area. People have a real struggle visualizing in three dimensions. Mesomorphic/Ectomorphic men intuitively can figure out their body type because they are also good with visualizing objects in a space.

I am not very active in sports. My body picks up muscules pretty easily without much sports.
5'6''1/2 is in Croatia bellow average for woman, here the average is 5'7''5 for woman...
 

KDude

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If you don't believe he was an INFJ read his biography. Very active and concerned about politics and civil rights.

It's not a bad typing. He's complex..I've always thought he was something along those lines. An I and F at least. He actually hated the Stanley Kowalski role after awhile too.. he knew people saw him as a brute, but in real life.. he was a pretty socially conscious dude. If anyone hasn't watched the Dick Cavett interview, they should watch that in it's entirety. The guy was sharp.. almost offputting in how he didn't just socially "flow" though, and evaluated everything all the time (not the wider social commentary.. that's cool. I mean, how he'd evaulate people's behaviors right in front of him).
 

Psychdigg

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Chloee:

Croatian men are also tall. Lot's of ectomorphic/mesomorphic basketball players. As I said you may be more mesomorphic than I estimated. Once again to really determine somatotype exactly you need to provide a picture like this:

wp1ed9b5ca_05.jpg



The band aids are for marking the bottom of the rib cage and the top of the pelvis. The band aid by the ribs should be placed so that the top edge marks the bottom of the rib cage. The band aid on the bottom should be placed so the bottom edge marks the top of the pelvis.
 

Psychdigg

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Haphazzard:

I really don't know anything about your medical condition. Yes, hormonal treatments can alter weight patterns. It would be interesting to see what your structure will be in a couple years or however long it takes to stabilize. Just remember there is nothing wrong with being endomorphic. Endo's are what give society stability. They are reliable, caring, amiable, peace-loving people who quietly take care of human suffering and they actually like people and listen to them.

I have a preliminary somatotype for Hitler. Endo 3.5 Meso 4.5 Ecto 3. That makes him an ENFJ. Leader types can go awfully wrong.
 

Haphazard

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Haphazzard:

I really don't know anything about your medical condition. Yes, hormonal treatments can alter weight patterns. It would be interesting to see what your structure will be in a couple years or however long it takes to stabilize. Just remember there is nothing wrong with being endomorphic. Endo's are what give society stability. They are reliable, caring, amiable, peace-loving people who quietly take care of human suffering and they actually like people and listen to them.

I have a preliminary somatotype for Hitler. Endo 3.5 Meso 4.5 Ecto 3. That makes him an ENFJ. Leader types can go awfully wrong.

There's nothing wrong with those things, I'm just saying that I'm not any of them.
 

Psychdigg

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I want to deal with a criticism of somatotyping that keeps coming up in one form or another. It centers around the question: ....what happens if you
diet? Does this mean malnourished people have the same
personality?

That is an obvious question. And it demonstrates the reason why
good science must sometimes research the "obvious". The obvious in
this case is not true. Sheldon was confronted with this most
damaging criticism. This idea springs from a misunderstanding of
what the somatotype is measuring. On one level Endomorphy is
usually expressed in obesity. But one does not cease from being an
endomorph just because they go on a starvation diet. A person
doesn't become an ectomorph by losing weight. Instead an endomorph
who loses weight becomes an emaciated endomorph.

The objective measure that establishes endomorphy and mesomorphy is
what is called the Trunk Index. This is Sheldon's explanation of
the Trunk Index (TI):

"This was simply the area of the thoracic
trunk over the area of the abdominal trunk, measured with a
planimeter on a standard somatotype photograph."

How constant is the TI? Sheldon goes on to explain

"At the University of California in 1929, a long term growth study and
follow-up study of almost 1,000 children was initiated. The
subjects were about equally divided between the two sexes. Nearly
half of them were born during the year 1928-29. For approximately
400 of this series, somatotype photographs were taken at least once
a year until the subjects were fully grown. Many of them were
followed through their twenties, and some through their thirties.
The 400 who stayed with the California project until they were
fully grown are being studied intensively in connection with our
project on the development of the somatotype in children. For all
of the 400 the trunk index remained constat from the first
photograph to the last."

"At the University of Minnesota during World War II, a "starvation
experiment" was carried out on a group of 34 subjects. Under mild
starvation conditions these men lost from 25% to 40% of their total
weight. Somatotype photographs of them were taken before and after
the weight loss. All of these photographs were somatotyped during
1958 at the Texas Instrument Branch of the Constitution Laboratory,
and at this time the trunk indices were calculated. The starvation
changed none of the trunk indices (and, therefore, actually, none
of the somatotypes.)

Somatotype photographs were taken of the class entering the United
States Military Academy at West Point in 1946, and again on
graduation in 1950. These boys had the advantages of closely
supervised body conditioning and muscle developing exercises for
four years at West Point. Many of them changed remarkably in their
general appearance of physical competence and in the surface
manifestations of muscular definition. But for all of them the
trunk index remained a constant.

At Columbia University, somatotype photographs of the entering
freshmen were taken regularly in the years between 1912 and 1917.
In 1955 we photographed 208 of these Columbia graduates at the
Constitution Laboratory in the Columbia Medical Center. None of
the trunk indices had changed, although weight in a few instances
had nearly doubled, and in a few other cases had decreased.

In a series of 46 pairs of identical twins of both sexes studied at
the Constitution Laboratory during the same period, the trunk
indices were identical within each pair, although in a few cases
there were dramatic nutritional differences.

At this time we were running a follow-up study of 412 women and 22
men who had been attending the Columbia Medical Center Nutrition
Clinic for purposes of supervised weight reduction. Some of the
women succeeded in shedding-very temporarily- as much as 150
pounds. But the photographs at maximal and at minimal weight showed
no detectable changes in trunk index. This remained constant
despite nutritional changes."

So, why do you still find textbooks that criticize this aspect of
somatotyping? I think it was Sheldon's fault. He published this
information in an obscure journal. At some point he arrogantly
decided he had nothing to prove to anyone. Unfortunately, if an
idea doesn't have an advocate it dies. That's my purpose. I intend
to advocate this idea until it once again takes root.

I haven't really won this point unless I can convince some people
to be courageous/curious enough to discover their somatotype. You
just can't imagine how powerful that little bit of information can
be. You will never again need to take a personality test. In
fact, once a person gets a good understanding of this theory they
won't be able to take a personality test.
 
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