Somatotype (Body-Type) and Personality

[Psychdigg]

Orange-Appled:

I don't see what that has to do with cognitive function still. How does being an endomorph make you more likely to be a Feeling type? Feeling has nothing to do with interest in food, and interest in food does not correlate to body type. Again, that's simply a stereotype.

Psychology has been struggling for hundreds of years with the mind-body split. The Behaviorists reacted by saying that the causes of behavior are all environmental - outside the brain. All that little revolution accomplished was that the Behaviorists also ignored the body. The mind needs to be seen as the activity of the Brain which is only part of the body. The brain is not like a "soul" or independent module.

I was semantically reckless when I used the words "interest in food". Of course we all are interested in food - but maybe in different ways. An ectomorph may be intrigued by the rarity of a particular food (truffles, special mushrooms, rare seasonings). Or maybe the ectomorph may be concerned with the aesthetics or presentation of the dish. Mesomorphs may want something they can aggressively sink their teeth in and work at devouring like a 32 oz steak. Endomorphs are more concerned with food that will fill them up. Endomorphs seem to have a greater tendency to avoid the discomfort of that empty feeling. Endo's crave comfort foods, high in carbohydrates, fat and sugar.

Now a simple test. What word is usually associated with the word "feeling".

a. I have this brain feeling that we're not going to get along.

b. I have this muscle feeling that we're not going to get along.

c. I have this gut feeling that we're not going to get along.

This is not a trivial point.

Let me quote Sheldon's explanation of the way organ systems affect temperament.

"Viscerotonia (viscera-endomorphy) the first component, it its extreme manifestation is characterized by general relaxation, love of comfort, sociability, conviviality, gluttony for food, for people and affection. The viscerotonic extremes are people who 'suck hard at the breast of mother earth' and love physical proximity with others. The motivational organization is dominated by the gut and by the function of anabolism. The personality seems to center around the viscera. The digestive tract is kin, and its welfare appears to define the primary purpose of life."

"Somatotonia (mesomorphy) the second component, is roughly a predominance of muscular activity and of vigorous bodily assertiveness. The motivation organization seems dominated by the soma. These people have vigor and push. The executive department of their internal economy is strongly vested in their somatic muscular system. Action and power defines life's primary purpose."

"Cerebrotonia, (ectomorphy) the third component, is roughly a predominance of the element of restraint, inhibition, and of the desire for concealment. Cerebrotonic people shrink away from sociality as from too strong a light. They repress somatic and visceral expression, are hyperattentional, and sedulously avoid attracting attention to themselves. Their behavior seems dominated by the inhibitory and attentional functions of the cerebrum and their motivational hierarchy appears to define an antithesis to both of the other extremes." Taken from The Varieties of Temperament (1942) William Sheldon. MD, PHD

 

[ColonelGadaafi]

More extraterrestial nonesense.

 

[Haphazard]

Fine, I'm endo-ecto. Analyze me.

 

[KDude]

I certainly like stylish food. He may be on to something.

Any other ectomorph ISTJ/ISTPs who'd like to eat that?


*crickets*

 

[Haphazard]

Is this close?

It's Estonia!

 

[Thalassa]

I certainly like stylish food. He may be on to something.

Any other ectomorph ISTJ/ISTPs who'd like to eat that?


*crickets*

 

[Thalassa]

the only problem I see with the associations he's making between appetite and body type is this: there's an obesity epidemic in the United States...people are biologically programmed to respond positively to a certain blend of carbs/fats which is encapsulated perfectly in many junk foods, like cheeseburgers and pizza. It's a human thing, NOT an endomorph thing. You can't sit here and tell me all of the overweight people are endormorphs. It's just not true. It's more or less a cultural disease that manipulates people's animal tendencies to crave certain foods.

Just like all of the people who are more health conscious and discerning about food (like me, to a certain extent) are NOT ectomorphs. I was a picky eater as a child, and while I learned to eat what was put in front of me (that's the problem - not body type, but being taught that kind of mentality through family and culture), as an adult I have a lot of interest in exotic foods and eating healthy.

I'm sure all anorexics aren't ectomorphs, either.

 

[Vamp]

the only problem I see with the associations he's making between appetite and body type is this: there's an obesity epidemic in the United States...people are biologically programmed to respond positively to a certain blend of carbs/fats which is encapsulated perfectly in many junk foods, like cheeseburgers and pizza. It's a human thing, NOT an endomorph thing. You can't sit here and tell me all of the overweight people are endormorphs. It's just not true. It's more or less a cultural disease that manipulates people's animal tendencies to crave certain foods.

Just like all of the people who are more health conscious and discerning about food (like me, to a certain extent) are NOT ectomorphs. I was a picky eater as a child, and while I learned to eat what was put in front of me (that's the problem - not body type, but being taught that kind of mentality through family and culture), as an adult I have a lot of interest in exotic foods and eating healthy.

I'm sure all anorexics aren't ectomorphs, either.

This is true. This is why I do not agree with using weight to define body type. I'm an ecto but if I eat properly and train hard I "turn into" a meso and certainly would not stay (looking) ecto. Not all healthy people will be ectos, some will even be endos; to me, that's the individuality in the body. It can't really be measured or made "logical". This is why fad diets are so rampant, everyone wants an easy one-size-fits-all directory.

A lot of "overweight" people are mesos with muscles. When I got into lifting weights the first thing I was told over and over again is to pay no attention to that number on the scale. Pay attention to how you feel and how your body naturally responds. When I eat right I gain weight.

 

[Vamp]

Vamp:

This is a science. Sheldon somatotyped over 100,000 people in his life time.

Here are some of the myths about body type.

1. It is a myth that anyone can get fat if they eat enough. Ectomorphs would physically die if they cramed their short intestinal length with enough food to make them obese. Endomorphs can have intestines up to 45 feet long. Ectomorphs as short as 15 feet.

2. It is a myth that if an endomorph goes on a starvation diet that they will become an ectomorph. A starved endomorph doesn't even look like an ectomorph. A starved endomorph looks like an emaciated ENDOMORPH. If you took two people the same height and same weight and stood them before me in swimwear I could easily pick out which one was the endomorph. This is why Endomorphs need to radically alter the type of food they consume for permanent weight loss. They need to fill that 45 foot long food processing tube with lots of raw vegetables. On the other hand Ectomorphs need concentrated foods in small amounts throughout the day because they don't have reserves of fat for energy. Ectomorphs move their food fairly quickly through their 15 feet of intestines.

3. It is a myth that anyone can become a mesomorph by following a vigorous program of weight lifting. The Trunk Index is changed very little by weight training. Most of the muscle mass that is added is in the arms and shoulders which isn't calculated into the Trunk Index.

To understand Sheldon's method you really need to understand the Trunk Index. This is how the Trunk Index is determined.

1. You have a photograph of a person. Preferably enough of the body is exposed to determine the critical measurement points. You need a planimeter which is an instrument for measuring irregular areas. You determine two areas on the photograph. One is called the Thoracic Trunk and the other is the Abdominal Trunk. Basically we are dealing strictly with the Torso (body excluding head, arms and legs). The dividing point between the Thoracic Trunk and the Abdominal Trunk is a line midway between the anatomical waist and the top of the pelvis. The Trunk Index is determined by dividing the area (obtained using the planimeter) of The Thoracic Trunk and dividing it by the area of the Abdominal Trunk. As the abdominal trunk area gets larger the Trunk Index becomes a smaller number. So here are some Trunk Indexes that will give you an idea of how they vary. (Trunk Index abbr. TI)

Extreme Endomorph Endo 7, Meso 1, Ecto 1 Height 62.4" Weight 219@50 TI = .85
Extreme Mesomorph Endo 1, Meso 7, Ecto 1 Height 62.4" Weight 144@50 TI = 2.05
Extreme Ectomorph Endo 1, Meso 1, Ecto 7 Height 69.6 Weight 106@50 TI = 1.45
Balanced Endo 4, Meso 4, Ecto 4 Height 70.8 Weight 186@50 TI = 1.45

I can figure this out for about 1,800 combinations using a 13 point scale (using .5 increments for 7)

It is possible for a person who has worked with this system to be fairly accurate with guessing, but it is really best to have a proper photograph.

If you aren't familiar with the system don't even think that you can guess. But, please don't dismiss it just because you don't understand it.

Also, the written test some of you have been referring to is practically worthless for figuring out your somatotype.

A lot more on my website.

I'm not the one who dismissed it, dude. I was actually kind of "on your side". Was. Hormones can determine body type and personality to a certain point. I am a tad meso and a tad aggressive because I have a little bit more testosterone in me.

BUT

While it is true that not everyone can get fat by eating enough and ectos have a hard time putting on weight everyone has the same length of intestine.

It is true that starving an endo will not make them ecto but an endo does NOT have to "radically alter their diet" for permanent weight loss. They just need to find a balance and put the science/art of nutrition and training to use.

It is true that you cannot change your bodytype but you can change it's composition. You still are what you are but you can move the levels of muscle, fat etc.,

You're WAY off base now, buddy.

You don't need a planimeter, btw.

Btw- it is recommended ectos eat small meals because their usually low weight/lower calorie burn rate means they can't absorb a bigger meal as efficiently not because of what you said.

But as it stands, individuals do what works best for them. No system of thought, no Socratic method will ever be able to replace that.

 

[Thalassa]

^^^

there are also ectos who can consume huge amounts of food...like the skinny guy who wolfs down an entire pizza, and can eat McDonald's every day and still be skinny....

 

[Psychdigg]

Vamp:

everyone has the same length of intestine.

Why would you say that when you absolutely can't prove it?

Here is a quote from Sheldon's 1968 paper "Psychotic Patterns and Physical Constitution. A Thirty Year Follow-Up of Thirty-Eight Hundred Psychiatric Patients in New York State.

"Later in medical school, my attention was called to the fact that a number of investigators - notably Bean, Bryant and Goldthwait - had reported that both intestinal mass and total length of the gut tended to VARY GREATLY in different people. Some persons, often called herbivorous types, had been found at autopsy to have a total gut length of forty feet or more; while others, called carnivorous types, measured around fifteen feet. I was permitted to test this observation by assisting as "measurer" at thirty autopsies. We had seventeen "herbivorous" and thirteen "carnivorous" cases. The mean total length for the former turned out to be 32 feet; for the latter, 19 feet. The longest gut was 43 feet; the shortest, 14 feet. Better than a three to one ratio. Again, something was there. This time something pleasingly substantial. Forty three feet of it. The constitution problem began to seem worth looking into."

 

[Psychdigg]

Marmalade Sunrise:

Psychdigg is wrong. I read up about this on another site, and weight gain or loss does not indicate body type. Endos can be relatively slim, but have a hard time building muscle, and usually have to work harder to not gain weight.

I am wrong because some other site say something different?

Weight is an important factor in determining somatotype BUT - not by itself. Weight means different things. A six foot 6 inch man weighing 200 pounds means something entirely different than a man five feet 6 inches weighing 200 pounds.

Mass alone doesn't tell you whether the weight is fat or muscle.

When you somatotype a person all these factors are considered to arrive at a best fit.

 

[Thalassa]

Marmalade Sunrise:



I am wrong because some other site say something different?

Weight is an important factor in determining somatotype BUT - not by itself. Weight means different things. A six foot 6 inch man weighing 200 pounds means something entirely different than a man five feet 6 inches weighing 200 pounds.

Mass alone doesn't tell you whether the weight is fat or muscle.

When you somatotype a person all these factors are considered to arrive at a best fit.

Yeah, you aren't asking people body fat percentages, you're asking them for weight in pounds. I think that body fat percentage would be more important.

 

[Psychdigg]

Serge:

I thought Endomorphs actually gained muscle about as well as they gain fat? I think that makes sense, logically, since they have a heavier frame and as such, need more muscle to support it.Hence why somaotype centric information tells endomorphs to focus on losing weight rather than trying to bulk up.

There are endomorphs with very small and weak bones and not much muscle. Sometimes they can't carry their weight and need motorized wheel chairs to get around.

Most of the people that get on shows such as "Biggest Loser" are Mesomorphic Endomorphs. They have the ability to become really massive. They are also strong enough to endure the grueling work outs. Endomorphs that are low in mesomorphy have basically one option to lose significant weight - eat fewer simple carbs and eventually add moderate exercise when their bones and muscles can carry their weight better.

 

[Vamp]

^^^

there are also ectos who can consume huge amounts of food...like the skinny guy who wolfs down an entire pizza, and can eat McDonald's every day and still be skinny....

That's me. I found out the hard way when I had to gain weight. I had some epic battles trying to eat enough to beat my metabolism. Staying away from fast and processed foods did make the weight gain easier, tho.

People think I'm nuts when I say "McDonald's makes me skinny".

 

[Psychdigg]

Marmalade:

"you aren't asking people body fat percentages, you're asking them for weight in pounds. I think that body fat percentage would be more important."

To accurately determine a somatotype I need the Trunk Index which can be obtained from a photograph taken according to certain specifications. Next I need to know height. Finally I need to know maximum weight at various ages.

Without ALL of that information I can only make an educated guess about a person's true somatotype.

However, there are some factors that improve the odds when making an educated guess. Knowing that a person's weight hasn't changed much as they got older is usually an indication of low endomorphy. Low weight for a given height can mean ectomorphy. Huge weight can mean high mesomorphy along with high endomorphy.

A life of activity and participation in college level sports indicates higher than average mesomorphy.

There are other cues. If all a person gives me is their weight it would be hard to make even an educated guess.

So you may want to go over the cases I've discussed and you'll notice weight is not the only thing.

 

[Psychdigg]

What bothers me about this topic is that no one really seems to want to know their real somatotype. I posted a photo of the type I need to determine somatotype. If you post photos like that I could figure out exactly what your somatotype is.

Where are the scientists on this forum? You would all rather take a flawed paper and pencil test and delude yourself into thinking you are really the type it says you are. The test is right for some people. But less than 60% of the people who take the mbti more than a year later keep the same type classification. Almost all the Ixxx, IxFP, ESxx issues can be resolved if you know your somatotype. You don't have to believe it. You merely have to try it. And I am willing to do this free.

Until Galileo started dropping rocks off the Tower of Pisa everyone believed that heavy objects fall faster than lighter objects. They believed that because it was so "obvious". Everyone knew that if an object weighed more it would fall faster. They were wrong.

By dismissing the importance of somatotype you are missing out on one of the most important tools of self discovery.

 

[KDude]

I could just go and buy a hamburger in the time it'd take to do all the things in your test. If I'm lucky, it'll all go to my ass, and I can truly type myself ISFP. Yay self discovery.

 

[Haphazard]

^^^

there are also ectos who can consume huge amounts of food...like the skinny guy who wolfs down an entire pizza, and can eat McDonald's every day and still be skinny....

Are you sure that's not an issue of simply being unable to digest McDonald's?

Body fat percentage is weird. I tried a calculator and I got two numbers that were 10% apart.

 

[Vamp]

Are you sure that's not an issue of simply being unable to digest McDonald's?

Body fat percentage is weird. I tried a calculator and I got two numbers that were 10% apart.

That's common with calculators. None are exact. The way they work is that you take it once and keep taking it with that same calculator so you know your general progress. The best way is a pricey gym/lab thing. Or old fashioned calipers with a trainer/nutritionist/coach.