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What type is the most independent and why?

G

Glycerine

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From my experience, INTJs are the most introverted type (independent). INTPs seem pretty social.
 
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Halla74

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Extroverts might get CHARGED by interactions with other people, but that doesn't mean they NEED it.

Just like introverts might get DRAINED by interactions with other people, but that doesn't mean they are ANTISOCIAL.

Outside of MBTI, the most independent types are 7w8/8w7.

Neither really give a fuck what anybody else thinks. :cheese:
 

Aleksei

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Extroverts might get CHARGED by interactions with other people, but that doesn't mean they NEED it.
Well, they kinda do need occasional social interaction (what with the whole "isolation is draining" thing and all), but extroverted loners and misanthropes do exist -- they're usually ENTP. Generally those people approach other people with the purpose of annoying them.
 
G

Glycerine

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I feel underdeveloped....
Dang it. I knew I should have clarified. From my limited observations, INTPs seem much more likely to engage others in conversations than INTJs. INTJ conversations seem very short and to the point while INTP conversations seem very tangential and will go and go if you give them enough fodder. Of course, this is just from one ENFJ's perspective.
 

OrangeAppled

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2 questions:

1 How Fi is independent? Does'nt Fi implies to be dependent of what the Fi user values?

2 How would you define the word "independent"?

I'd say the most independent types are INTJ>ISTP>ESTP>INTP>ENTP>ENTJ>INFP>ISFP>ESFP>INFJ>ENFJ>ENFP>ISTJ>ESTJ>ESFJ>ISFJ more or less in that order.

Isn't Ti dependent on what the Ti-dom accepts as logical? But it's the Ti-dom's own logic, right?

Fi values are based on internal feelings. So Fi is "dependent" on itself - which makes it independent.

I'm thinking independent to mean low reliance on & influence from people & the external realm in general. Someone who does many/most things alone & is happy/prefers to, turns inward for stimulation, not easily influenced by other people's views - but has created many of his own views separate from his environment, figures things out & accomplishes a lot without much or any help, and is his "own person" - meaning unique.

Someone who is extreme in this way is really NOT admirable or healthy, IMO. It can make someone needlessly rebellious, arrogant, and detached.
Independence can be & often is overrated. I find it admirable when someone has the humility to ask for help from others.
 

Sunny Ghost

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i skipped over a lot of this thread... sowwy...

i feel like i'm a pretty independent person. i don't know if that is due to my personality type or other external values. but i don't feel as happy, as confident in who i am or what i am or anything i do, or as sane if i don't have my independence. i don't like being reliant on others, or others being reliant on me... i don't like constantly being bombarded by others... i like to be able to do what i feel like doing, when i feel like doing it. i like to sit at home in silence, with no one else around. i prefer my style to the style of the masses. and likewise for my values and morals. i view my life as a path in which only i am living out, and therefore feel as though i am a loner. i get along with others just fine, but i often prefer to not be in social situations, except on rare occasions. i like car rides, and plane rides and etc alone. so, i suppose depending on your definition of independent... ISFP's are right up there. another quality of ISFP's is the lack of desire to lead or be lead, which also leads us to be independent people. we aren't the hermits, but we are the lone travelers. or at least, i think we ISFP's as a group are. but, there could be another ISFP who disagree's here with me on that.
 

Speed Gavroche

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|quote]Fi is dependent on values but that's kind of stretching the meaning of dependency in this context. I was under the impression that dependency here meant in reference to making decisions that are necessarily mindful of other people. Which would not be Fi. Fi is the most likely function to tell people to go fuck themselves, if necessary. Just to put it in lamen's terms at least (Fi is not always telling people that or anything ). It's introverted judging, and can thrive without reference to friends, social norms, what you or your mom think is right, or caring to even justify itself with a logical explanation either. That isn't to say I think it's the most independent, once you line all functions up... but you will find a streak of independence in every SFP or NFP.[/quote]

Yes I see. This is because I'm myself a big Fi user (that is correlated with my enneagram) and sometimes I hate it because I feel like I value something and so I need it, and I think that if did'nt feel anything, I would be free. Sounds dependant for me. At the same time that drive me to want things wich are different that the group values and I'm not ready to make any concessions. In that way, Fi sounds independant.

Isn't Ti dependent on what the Ti-dom accepts as logical? But it's the Ti-dom's own logic, right?
Proof that I'am a Ti dom. I don't feel dependant of Ti at all, it's just the most natural way to act.:D

Fi values are based on internal feelings. So Fi is "dependent" on itself - which makes it independent.

I'm thinking independent to mean low reliance on & influence from people & the external realm in general. Someone who does many/most things alone & is happy/prefers to, turns inward for stimulation, not easily influenced by other people's views - but has created many of his own views separate from his environment, figures things out & accomplishes a lot without much or any help, and is his "own person" - meaning unique.

Yes, I relate to this.

Someone who is extreme in this way is really NOT admirable or healthy, IMO. It can make someone needlessly rebellious, arrogant, and detached.
Argh, I tend a little to be like that.:doh:

Independence can be & often is overrated. I find it admirable when someone has the humility to ask for help from others.

:yes:
 

Thalassa

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I have a very hard time believing the argument that any F type would be "the most independent."
 

FDG

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ESTP in my experience. INTPs? C'mon, being misanthropic is different from being indipendent - having sufficient contact with a large amount of people is a pre-requiste to check if you're indipendent or not.
 

InsatiableCuriosity

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But, I also want to point out that we have valuable skills. Our skills are usually the ones that sensors aren't as good at, and vice versa. We're at our best, when we learn to put these skills together and help each other out.

Absolutely!! Nature has done an awesome job of distributing type across populations according to the need for the skills of each type/temperament/function - we have only to look at an ant colony that will only survive with the correct proportion of soldiers, workers etc.

Ironically, where even the flawed MBTI could be best used in team building, research has shown that most managers employ types that either mirror their own type or that are least threatening in their eyes!:rolleyes::doh:
 

InsatiableCuriosity

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ESTP in my experience. INTPs? C'mon, being misanthropic is different from being indipendent - having sufficient contact with a large amount of people is a pre-requiste to check if you're indipendent or not.

I wasn't aware that misanthropy was another prerequisite for INTPs :shock: Gosh - I have been living a lie all of this time!!:doh:
 

Moiety

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I have a hard time seeing extroverts as independent because they seem so reliant on people to feed them energy.

Extroverts don't need people to fee them energy, they need external stimuli.

I could survive 365 days a year playing videogames.


(then again I've tested INTP in 3 of the 4 last tests I took, but thats another story)
 

Moonstone3

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INTPs, INTJs, and ISTPs are probably the most independent types for different reasons.

If every human were to disappear from earth and they were the only ones left I think they would have an easier time adapting to a world without other people, some of them might even enjoy a world without people.

I agree. That's the type of independence that I was really thinking about. It took me a day to process, but I like this perspective. People independence. There it is.
 

INTPness

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INTPs? C'mon, being misanthropic is different from being indipendent - having sufficient contact with a large amount of people is a pre-requiste to check if you're indipendent or not.

:shock: If someone doesn't rely on people or desire lots of contact, they may be misanthropic (or they may not), but they are definitely independent. If we set misanthropy aside for a minute (an INTP may be one, or he may not be one), and just look at a sliding scale of being "dependent/independent":

dependent <--0---1---2---3---4---5---6---7---8---9---10--> independent

I can assure you that whether I am misanthropic or not, I am nowhere near the left side of that scale.

I'm not arguing that INTP's are more independent than ESTP's. I'm just making the point that if someone is indeed a misanthrope (big "if"), that certainly doesn't exclude them from being independent. Not at all.



I wasn't aware that misanthropy was another prerequisite for INTPs

:nice:
 

highlander

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Responding to a few points that I missed.

The definition of "independence" was also vaguely established. By nature, Ni-dom's for certain are the "revolutionaries" that revolutionize our world. Does that strike as "independence" to you?

Yes, it does.

INTP's independence is usually a lack of care for the "goal". It's that person who criticizes a model or a person who's motivated by the process of work.

INTPs do seem to be more about the process of getting there than the result. How this is "independence" though?

I'd say the most independent types are INTJ>ISTP>ESTP>INTP>ENTP>ENTJ>INFP>ISFP>ESFP>INFJ>ENFJ>ENFP>ISTJ>ESTJ>ESFJ>ISFJ more or less in that order.

The more I think about it, the more I like this ordering. I'm not sure about placement of ESTP (I'd rank lower) and ISTJ (I'd rank higher) but otherwise, it looks pretty good.

Would you agree that Extraverted Judgment functions are the most "dependent" functions? Would you agree that specifically Extraverted Feeling IS the most "dependent" function? On average, Will an ExFJ work better than an ExTJ alone? Will ExxJ's work better alone than ExxP's?

If you agree that Je is the most dependent on "people stimuli", then certainly Ji is the least dependent on "people stimuli".

I would agree that Fe is the most dependent function but don't agree that extraverted judgment functions are the most dependent functions. I'd also suggest that Ni is the most independent function by a long shot.

ISTPs and ITJs.
This is what I would have thought before reading this thread.

INTJs, with no close competitors.

+1 :)
 

Craft

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Yes, it does.
Then, you were working with a different type of "independence".



INTPs do seem to be more about the process of getting there than the result. How this is "independence" though?
It's independent of "external 'Je stimuli". "I am not pressured to do this and finish that." It has less care for practical, which is external, goal. TiNe doesn't have to go to the "practical world". NiTe does.

Ni, by itself (which is impossible), is as independent as Ti but where it is mainly judged is based on Je(external association). On independence, Ti = Ni. But TiNe =/= NiTe.

I would agree that Fe is the most dependent function but don't agree that extraverted judgment functions are the most dependent functions. I'd also suggest that Ni is the most independent function by a long shot.
Ni is independent in that it is "unique". Ti is independent in that it doesn't care about whether it's unique, special or what. Ti is the supreme opposite of Fe wherein judgments rely on the impersonal self, not outward based. Though even if it is the opposite, it doesn't constitute as the *most* independent.

Another error I've made in my last "hierarchy" was that I didn't include all cognitive functions to affect certain types. For example, INTJ's have Ni but also have Tertiary Fi. Tertiary Fi has a certain degree of "independence" especially in that cognitive slot.
 

highlander

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It's independent of "external 'Je stimuli". "I am not pressured to do this and finish that." It has less care for practical, which is external, goal. TiNe doesn't have to go to the "practical world". NiTe does.

Ni, by itself (which is impossible), is as independent as Ti but where it is mainly judged is based on Je(external association). On independence, Ti = Ni. But TiNe =/= NiTe.


Ni is independent in that it is "unique". Ti is independent in that it doesn't care about whether it's unique, special or what. Ti is the supreme opposite of Fe wherein judgments rely on the impersonal self, not outward based. Though even if it is the opposite, it doesn't constitute as the *most* independent.

Another error I've made in my last "hierarchy" was that I didn't include all cognitive functions to affect certain types. For example, INTJ's have Ni but also have Tertiary Fi. Tertiary Fi has a certain degree of "independence" especially in that cognitive slot.

If you look at this through a function lens, it might be right to pick the first two. Tertiary influence is relatively weak in comparison to dominant and auxiliary. (edit) Maybe you could apply weighting based on function order.

I can see your point on not being pressured by an external goal. I guess, my bias is towards this definition, "freedom from control or influence of another or others." The key is being controlled or influenced by other people. In that context, I think practicality of orientation and independence are not highly correlated. Ni is rather irrational and yet the influence of it is huge for INxJ. Others don't see it so it is hard for them to understand. They see the Te/Fe. It's a bit of a paradox because I think most INTJs would see themselves as very rational people and yet they are internally governed by this irrational and unconscious function. A couple more quotes from Gifts Differing that might be helpful:

"Thinking or feeling judgment is vitally necessary, and introverted intuitives must develop it for themselves, because their utter conviction of their intuition's validity makes them impervious to the influence of outside judgment"

"It follows that these people cannot be successfully coerced. They will not even be told anything without their permission, but they will accept an offer of facts, opinions, or theories, for free consideration"
 
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