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  1. #11
    Yeah, I can fly. Aleksei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Craft View Post
    ^
    Introversion/Extroversion determines the affinity for "independence". Pi requires introversion and at the same time dislikes external outputs. What's about it that dislikes independence?
    Well, speaking of the individual functions, Si is obsessed with stability and tradition, and operates entirely on the basis of data collected over time. Nothing about it could really be considered independent, unless you wholly describe independent as antisocial.
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  2. #12
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    At first I would have said INTJ, since we do tend to be very independent. Our drive to implement our ideas in the real world, however, does require a degree of interaction and connection with it, however, so INTP is probably a better answer.

  3. #13
    Probably Most Brilliant Craft's Avatar
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    Independence(+):

    Ti +10
    Fi +7.5
    Ni + 5
    Si + 2.5

    Independence(-):

    Ne - 2.5
    Se - 5
    Te - 7.5
    Fe - 10

    From this you have to consider the Dom(+-5) and Aux(+-2.5) functions of each type so it's this:

    INTP(10), ISTP(7.5)=INFP(7.5), ISFP(5)=ENTP(5), ESTP(2.5) = ENFP(2.5), ESFP(0) = INTJ(0), ISTJ(-2.5) = INFJ(-2.5), ISFJ(-5) = ENTJ(-5), ESTJ(-7.5) = ENFJ (-7.5), ESFJ(-10)

    ...at least based on my understanding. Realistically, I think nurture would overwhelm nature.
    Last edited by Craft; 06-12-2010 at 01:18 PM.

  4. #14
    Probably Most Brilliant Craft's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    Well, speaking of the individual functions, Si is obsessed with stability and tradition, and operates entirely on the basis of data collected over time. Nothing about it could really be considered independent, unless you wholly describe independent as antisocial.
    It is independent of its own "personal" data. It determines "tradition" on a subjective level.

  5. #15
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajblaise View Post
    1. INTP
    2. INTJ
    3. Everyone else

    This isn't so much an IxxP thing, it's an INTependence thing.
    INTJs may not budge and change easily, but they still kind of want to be in charge of things though, right? There's a still need to define oneself through control.

  6. #16
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    I see you guys want all the nice parts of independence and not, say, the asexuality and the closed-mindedness.
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

    Boy meets Grr

  7. #17
    Yeah, I can fly. Aleksei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Craft View Post
    It is independent of its own "personal" data. It determines "tradition" on a subjective level.
    Unicorns are real, and they're blue. See? I can make shit up too.

    Si determines tradition (and really, anything else) on a data-based level, and is wholly dependent on what came before it. That's what it is, in fact -- adherence to what was. No independence whatsoever there.

    Introverted Sensing often involves storing data and information, then comparing and contrasting the current situation with similar ones. The immediate experience or words are instantly linked with the prior experiences, and we register a similarity or a difference—for example, noticing that some food doesn’t taste the same or is saltier than it usually is. Introverted Sensing is also operating when we see someone who reminds us of someone else. Sometimes a feeling associated with the recalled image comes into our awareness along with the information itself. Then the image can be so strong, our body responds as if reliving the experience. The process also involves reviewing the past to draw on the lessons of history, hindsight, and experience. With introverted Sensing, there is often great attention to detail and getting a clear picture of goals and objectives and what is to happen. There can be a oneness with ageless customs that help sustain civilization and culture and protect what is known and long-lasting, even while what is reliable changes.
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  8. #18
    Probably Most Brilliant Craft's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    Si determines tradition (and really, anything else) on a data-based level, and is wholly dependent on what came before it. That's what it is, in fact -- adherence to what was. No independence whatsoever there.
    "Data" is defined by cognition or the person's perception; "Data" is relative to the person. "Data" and/or "Tradition" can therefore vary between different individuals creating "independent tradition" and/or "independent information".

    "I am independent because society doesn't fit my 'tradition'."

    Now, Je(Te&Fe), however, is about adaptation towards a system and since Dom Si's are usually accompanied by Je, it forms the relationship of Si-Je, which is the relationship of tradition that is judged based mainly on external criteria.

  9. #19
    Minister of Propagandhi ajblaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    INTJs may not budge and change easily, but they still kind of want to be in charge of things though, right? There's a still need to define oneself through control.
    They seek a more controlled environment than INTPs, but are the last type to give up self-sufficiency in order to get it.

  10. #20
    Yeah, I can fly. Aleksei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Craft View Post
    "Data" is defined by cognition or the person's perception. "Data" is relative to the person. "Data" or "Tradition" can therefore vary between different individuals creating "independent tradition" and/or independent "information".
    Data is data. The only thing that could change is your interpretation of it, or the data itself. Si does not interpret -- it only collects and then associates, which means A is A, regardless of which Si user perceives it. Si is not Ne.
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