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  1. #51
    Join Date
    Jun 2010


    Quote Originally Posted by gromit View Post
    I wasn't sure whether to post this in the MBTI and other personality matrices or in Religion and Spirituality, but I went with this one because I want it to be more functions-focused.

    So I've been thinking about religion/faith a bit recently and also trying to get a little better grasp on these cognitive functions.

    In the category of religion, we have communal and individual aspects, group worship and service (like in the "helping others" sense) and then things like personal devotion and prayer. On some level, the communal aspects of religion appear to be very Fe-oriented, while the individual aspects tend to be more Fi-oriented. Religion vs. spirituality, perhaps?

    However, there are a lot of Fi users who participate actively in organized religion, and there are a lot of Fe users who are disenchanted with it.

    It has been my observation that a lot of Fi users become disenchanted with religion (particular religions or religions in general) because they perceive it as the Fe "man" trying to get them to live by its rules sort of thing. Totally valid, this makes a lot of sense to me. At the same time, Fi users who ARE religious seem to find that religion, even the communal aspects, enhances their Fi spirituality (whether or not they even know/use the term Fi).

    Fe users... I do not know exactly what makes them disenchanted with religion or how they feel about the individual aspects. I don't have a lot of data points except for on here and people from real life who have identified with a particular type (since I'm not amazing at distinguishing on my own yet). My dear ENFJ friend has been recently dissecting her religious views, because for a large portion of her life, duty and devotion were the same to her. She felt a sense of spirituality when she was performing religious duties, even in her private live. She wants to continue to be spiritual - and relgious to the extent possible (within a religion that isn't necessarily accepting of her sexuality) - but I can see that it has been very very painful and almost violent for her to let go of these expectations on herself, and I know that she will feel it sharply when she brings these things up with her family.

    People who find fulfillment in relgion, it seems, are able to significantly reconcile the communal aspects and the individual aspects with their own F values. But I suspect there will always be tensions there for Fi and Fe users... maybe not. Maybe some people are religious without tension.

    Anyway, these are just some thoughts. I'd be really interested in feedback. I didn't even get into the Te dimension for the Fi users and the Ti dimension for Fe users, but I'm sure that has a lot to do with it, particularly for the T-dom people. The above is certainly F-biased.

    Didn't read the other posts, just wanted to throw in my 2cents...

    The communal aspect of spirituality does not have to be religion.
    A religion is an organized set of ..rules, you could say, on how why & who to worship.
    In order to enjoy communal spirituality one does not HAVE to take part in a religion.

    I would first say that religions are moral structures created by humans for..many reasons. Religion first served to bring spiritually like minded people together but were soon overtaken by groups and individuals seeking to gain power for themselves. By manipulating other humans' spiritual & moral ideals they exert control over their group and lead the group away from a spiritual path to one rooted in egotistical motives. Now I'm not saying that christianity/islam/insertrandomreligonhere's ideals are necessarily wrong, I'm just saying that humans control religon mostly and usually to gain personal power so the whole system is not so much spirituality based its just controlling.

    A better way to grow spiritually is for one to follow their own paths & ideals that explain the balance of the universe in a way they can personally relate to. This would be an example of what you see as Fi based but my argument is that both individual and communal spirituality is important for the individual, and for humanity as a whole.
    Change must start on a individual level so individual spirituality is important. (Fi)
    Universal truths must be shared with others in order to benefit humanity as a whole so communal spirituality is equally important. (Fe)

    Perhaps Fi's are better at personal spiritual journeying, and Fe's are naturally good at spreading and sharing the things Fi types find in their journeys.
    It's like yingyang, we have to work together or there isn't balance.

  2. #52
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008


    My mom is an ESFJ and she is highly religious and Christian.

    As an Fi user, you can't tell me what is holy/sacred, I must feel it and believe it MYSELF in order to respect it.
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

  3. #53
    Yeah, I can fly. Aleksei's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    7w6 sx/sp
    ILE Ti


    Same here. And I don't believe in shit, so I don't respect much anything spiritual (though I can usually avoid arguments about it by keeping my mouth shut). I do respect the role of religion and traditional mores in society, but I won't apply it to myself.

    Teacher (Idyllic), ESE-IEI (Si-ESFj), SLue|I|, Sanguine-Melancholy
    Sage, True Neutral (Chaotic Good), Type III Anti-Hero
    Inventive > Artistic > Leisurely > Dramatic
    7w6 > 4w3 > 9w8, weakside sp/so

    Dark Worker (Sacrificing)
    Freewheeling Designer

    Hayekian Asshole

  4. #54


    Quote Originally Posted by SillySapienne View Post
    My mom is an ESFJ and she is highly religious and Christian.

    As an Fi user, you can't tell me what is holy/sacred, I must feel it and believe it MYSELF in order to respect it.
    yeah, as a strong Fe user (ENFJ), I'm the same way! Well, I want the logic behind it in order to believe it, lol.

    IMO, religion really doesn't have to do much w/ Fe or Fi. It serves different purposes for each. In my family, my mom (INFP) and my dad (ESFJ) are fairly religious. My ISTJ and INFP brothers were religious but not so much anymore. My ENFP sister and I have never really been religious (I have always been skeptical).

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