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  1. #41
    Blah Orangey's Avatar
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    Jun 2008


    I've never felt a spiritual impulse in my life, nor have I ever felt drawn to the community aspect of religious organizations. Add to that my strong distaste for the monotheistic religions (because their teachings violate my core principles) and I am a bonafide anti-theist.

    Not that this is all that relevant to the thread. But I thought Eric B's answer pretty much covered what the OP was asking.
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  2. #42
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Jan 2010


    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    Religion has something for all the function preferences.

    The universalized inner ethics it supports will appeal to Fi. However, if it doesn't seem authentic or congruent with other personal values, they may resist it.
    The group harmony will appeal to Fe. However, if the group dynamic is abused, and disharmony is sensed; then they will be against it.

    Te will like the organizational aspect of it.

    Ti can like some of the concepts, but they may run afoul of universal logical principles. So of the judgment functions, Ti will probably have the most trouble getting into it.

    Si also likes the concrete structure. However, bad memories (esp. childhood, etc.) will make them rebel against it and never look back.

    Ni might like the archetypes and symbols that can be found in it. But then these things might move them away from an "orthodox" interpretation in any system.

    Ne will like the possibilities of how it can make things better. But then if it is too restrictive and tradition-focused, they will be left dry.

    Se probably has the least use for religion.

    Also, of course, for any of these functions preferred, the opposite will be in the nonpreferred position, and also affect the person's view of it.

    Like because a Ti dominant is going by internal logic; if it is a judgmental authoritarian atmosphere that restricts free thinking, then the inferior Fe, as vulnerable as it is, will sense potential disharmony and shy away from the group.

    A Te preferrer's lesser Fi will also rebel against the organizational aspect of it if it is seen as trampling personal/universal values.

    Se could still probably find use for religion, especially in old catholic or orthodox settings.. you're kinda awash in sensory stimulation in some of these places (art, music, incense, etc). There are a lot of catholic teachings just on the experience of the mass in and of itself, as if it's a small taste of the divine for some people.

    Doesn't really do it for me, but just a thought.

  3. #43
    Yeah, I can fly. Aleksei's Avatar
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    Mar 2010
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    I would think that an Ni Fe could see flaws in the way organized religions work, or perceive them to be harmful in some way, or else believe alternative paths to spirituality to be better, and thus strike out away from it; thus many ENFJs and INFJs would seek alternative paths. Don't think many SFJs would have that experience though.

    Fi users are a wildcard, though most are very spiritual in some way or another. I'm really not, myself.

    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    actually one of the things that pisses me off the most about organized religions may be Fe based... I see them as doing more harm in the world in a lot of cases than they do good... it's incredibly rare that I see any religious group actually DOING good works and helping their fellow human beings... the religion may be based on the principle of being kind and good to others, but I keep getting a creepy feeling that telling people that they're headed to hell, smiting non-beleivers and televangilism aren't exactly things that go along with those principles
    Religious organizations (Protestant Christian organizations especially) devote more money and man-hours to charity purposes than any other organization on the face of this Earth. Most homeless shelters are church-run, for example. They really do practice what they preach.

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  4. #44
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Apr 2010
    5w6 sp/sx


    A very honest and insightful post, Cafe.

    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    Now I find myself still religious, but always a skeptic, wanting to obey the commandment to be part of a fellowship, but very much not the target audience of the ones that seem to share my religious beliefs. They are often loud and emotional and lacking rationality. I don't doubt their sincerity, but I guess I question their depth.
    Perhaps you just need to expand your idea of what a fellowship is. Didn't Jesus say, "wherever two or three are gathered in my name"? You don't need a formal organization to have fellowship. Jesus' earliest followers certainly didn't, in fact they met outside of the formal organizations of their day, though they continued to observe those rituals meaningful to them (e.g. the Passover).

  5. #45
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Jan 2010


    Has anyone read about the "desert fathers" (a misnomer, since some were female too).. Probably a lot of Fi types there. In the earliest centuries of Christianity, some were already recognizing it was too "civilized" and social for their tastes... so they wandered into the deserts to meditate. Some wrote, and most of the literature is more mystic and individualistic in nature.

    These movements always evolved into monastic orders though..

    Even in later european history, independent types would do their own thing (like St. Francis...who I think was probably ISFP), only to have their causes become more Fe-like organizations (Francis > Franciscan order). AND THEN... it just keeps repeating itself. Martin Luther was a Franciscan monk himself, but I think very Fi - and what does he end up doing.. he blows them all off, nails the 95 theses on the door, and gets married. And then his movement becomes the Lutherans. Etc., etc..

    I think Fi might be an impetus for a lot of changes, but they seem to always become more Fe or Te like movements later.

  6. #46
    Senior Member Yloh's Avatar
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    Jul 2009


    Quote Originally Posted by gromit View Post
    I wasn't sure whether to post this in the MBTI and other personality matrices or in Religion and Spirituality, but I went with this one because I want it to be more functions-focused.

    So I've been thinking about religion/faith a bit recently and also trying to get a little better grasp on these cognitive functions.

    In the category of religion, we have communal and individual aspects, group worship and service (like in the "helping others" sense) and then things like personal devotion and prayer. On some level, the communal aspects of religion appear to be very Fe-oriented, while the individual aspects tend to be more Fi-oriented. Religion vs. spirituality, perhaps?

    However, there are a lot of Fi users who participate actively in organized religion, and there are a lot of Fe users who are disenchanted with it.

    It has been my observation that a lot of Fi users become disenchanted with religion (particular religions or religions in general) because they perceive it as the Fe "man" trying to get them to live by its rules sort of thing. Totally valid, this makes a lot of sense to me. At the same time, Fi users who ARE religious seem to find that religion, even the communal aspects, enhances their Fi spirituality (whether or not they even know/use the term Fi).

    Fe users... I do not know exactly what makes them disenchanted with religion or how they feel about the individual aspects. I don't have a lot of data points except for on here and people from real life who have identified with a particular type (since I'm not amazing at distinguishing on my own yet). My dear ENFJ friend has been recently dissecting her religious views, because for a large portion of her life, duty and devotion were the same to her. She felt a sense of spirituality when she was performing religious duties, even in her private live. She wants to continue to be spiritual - and relgious to the extent possible (within a religion that isn't necessarily accepting of her sexuality) - but I can see that it has been very very painful and almost violent for her to let go of these expectations on herself, and I know that she will feel it sharply when she brings these things up with her family.

    People who find fulfillment in relgion, it seems, are able to significantly reconcile the communal aspects and the individual aspects with their own F values. But I suspect there will always be tensions there for Fi and Fe users... maybe not. Maybe some people are religious without tension.

    Anyway, these are just some thoughts. I'd be really interested in feedback. I didn't even get into the Te dimension for the Fi users and the Ti dimension for Fe users, but I'm sure that has a lot to do with it, particularly for the T-dom people. The above is certainly F-biased.
    I am Fe dom and I would say I am more spiritual than religious. The main reason is because there has been too many times where there has been corrupt leaders in the Church. It makes me really angry because those people with in a religion who are corrupt give the whole religion a bad name. :steam: I also don't need the Churches approval to live my life. I know what is right from wrong and actually read my Bible. Reading The Bible is a thing very few people actually do.

    Now with that said, it is important to meet with others with similar spiritual believes. It doesn't have to be an official Church, but a gathering. The Bible talks about "The Body" and how we are part of a whole. We all work together to accomplish a common goal. :workout: As a group we hold each other accountable, in a good way, and take care of each other. This is different than an official Church as this is done on a much smaller scale and there is no official leader. It is important to meet with other believers on a regular basis.

    Hope this helps.

  7. #47


    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    Martin Luther was a Franciscan monk himself
    No, he was an Augustinian monk.

  8. #48
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Jan 2010


    Oops. Thanks for the correction. Hmm. well , the illustration only partly applies I guess. I kinda associate Augustine with a more urban type of monastic.

  9. #49
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Mar 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    Se could still probably find use for religion, especially in old catholic or orthodox settings.. you're kinda awash in sensory stimulation in some of these places (art, music, incense, etc). There are a lot of catholic teachings just on the experience of the mass in and of itself, as if it's a small taste of the divine for some people.

    Doesn't really do it for me, but just a thought.
    True! Forgot about that.
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  10. #50
    eh cascadeco's Avatar
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    Oct 2007
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    Religion never really made sense to me, although I understand the necessity of it for many people on a personal level as well as a 'glue' that might be needed on a societal level.

    And, I really can't believe in something that doesn't make sense. I've always wanted to know more how things really are, rather than how I might wish or want them to be. And I can't really reconcile most aspects of religion or ideas of a higher power. Therefore I can't even say that I'm spiritual in the sense most people would use that word. Like I said, it just doesn't make sense. I know that's a very vague statement, but it's preferable to the alternative which would require me to post about 80 pages worth of stuff.
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