"Untypeable" Family Members

[OctaviaCaesar]

I have two members of my family who have been difficult to type, and I am collecting information on what makes people behave against their type, especially in the family context. So, does anyone care to share (generalized!) portraits of family types who are "off" for whatever reason--how they manifest counter-type behaviours or do seemingly untypeable things?

I'll start off. (Note: They have never taken the official MBTI, just internet approximations.) Sister 1 has always tested as an INFP. I can see that in her childhood, but she shows no orientation in adulthood toward Kiersey's Idealist traits--especially not self-actualization, which she laughs at me for being interested in. She has an F preference, I am pretty sure, being sensitive, but she is interested in science and is much like her INTJ boyfriend now; I wonder if he is the reason for this. She also has always been an amazing artist. I cannot figure out her type for sure.

Sister 2 has tested TWICE as ENFP but this cannot be true. She is a textbook ESTP: as early as two years old perfect strangers would watch her and tell my mother, "I think you've got your boy there." To this day she is proud of being "one of the guys." She fits all the descriptions of an SP Artisan. I just don't know why there is such a discrepancy in the test results.

 

[MerkW]

I know how you feel. It is highly irritating. My father is virtually "untypeable." He is definitely IxTx. INTP can be ruled out. That leaves us with INTJ, ISTP, and ISTJ. He is very much against tradition, so ISTJ then ends up seeming unlikely. He doesn't seem particularly N (I think he is borderline on the N/S dichotomy), which would make INTJ seem less likely. But he seems too organized and J-like to be an ISTP. If he were to take the cognitive functions test, I predict that he would score lowest on Fi and Fe.
Clearly, whichever type he is, he is an abnormal version of it.

The options...
- An stressed-out INTJ who keeps his Ni to himself, and out of stress, uses his Se quite a bit more than usual.
- A very, very untraditional ISTJ.
- An organized ISTP who is not that much of a risk-taker and who appreciates politeness (Fe + Si) more than most ISTPs seem to.

I suppose I'll just have to force a barrage of Jungian tests on him.

 

[miss fortune]

sis two sounds like me growing up! good ESTP! (did she like to beat up bullies? that would be another sign! )

sis one- sounds vaguely like my sister- maybe an ISFP? My sis almost majored in a science, is rather influenced by her fiance and is VERY artistic!

 

[OctaviaCaesar]

So, Merkw, I wonder what that means about your father's type development throughout his life, or lack thereof. Hopefully he is not psychotic, etc., at all...but what things would non-normal type development point to? Repression in earlier life?

 

[INTJMom]

I have two members of my family who have been difficult to type, and I am collecting information on what makes people behave against their type, especially in the family context. So, does anyone care to share (generalized!) portraits of family types who are "off" for whatever reason--how they manifest counter-type behaviours or do seemingly untypeable things?

I'll start off. (Note: They have never taken the official MBTI, just internet approximations.) Sister 1 has always tested as an INFP. I can see that in her childhood, but she shows no orientation in adulthood toward Kiersey's Idealist traits--especially not self-actualization, which she laughs at me for being interested in. She has an F preference, I am pretty sure, being sensitive, but she is interested in science and is much like her INTJ boyfriend now; I wonder if he is the reason for this. She also has always been an amazing artist. I cannot figure out her type for sure.

Sister 2 has tested TWICE as ENFP but this cannot be true. She is a textbook ESTP: as early as two years old perfect strangers would watch her and tell my mother, "I think you've got your boy there." To this day she is proud of being "one of the guys." She fits all the descriptions of an SP Artisan. I just don't know why there is such a discrepancy in the test results.

If sister 2 is an ESTP, then I would assume the reason she came up with ENFP is because she really doesn't know herself in a deep way.

 

[Zergling]

My brother doesn't really fit with anything. He has taken an MBTI test 5 times, and gotten INTP, ISTP, ISTJ, ISFP, and ISTJ. He does seem more on the ISTP side, such as being less of a scheduler and his interests seem to lie in less emotional areas, but he has no qualities that really stand out strongly. (Currently, he's going to study German and international studies in college, tends to get average/slightly below average grades, does much less well on homework and tests, plays a bass outside of school and otherwise hangs out with a small/medium sized group of friends, doing typical "friends" stuff like movies, concerts, etc.)

 

[Wandering]

I have two members of my family who have been difficult to type

Only two? Consider yourself lucky I cannot manage to type *anyone* in my family! First because I don't trust the online MBTI tests (they always get me wrong - INFP instead of INFJ - , and my ENFJ husband easily fooled one into typing him as INTP just because that's what he wanted to be at the time), so I don't even bother having my family members answer those tests. And second because I know my family too well: for every "clue" I can think of, I can also think of several times when they did the exact opposite!

(Note: They have never taken the official MBTI, just internet approximations.) Sister 1 has always tested as an INFP. I can see that in her childhood, but she shows no orientation in adulthood toward Kiersey's Idealist traits--especially not self-actualization, which she laughs at me for being interested in. She has an F preference, I am pretty sure, being sensitive, but she is interested in science and is much like her INTJ boyfriend now; I wonder if he is the reason for this. She also has always been an amazing artist. I cannot figure out her type for sure.

One possibility is INFJ. Hanging around lots of INTPs and INTJs as one tends to do when one is interested in science, and having an INTJ boyfriend, could explain her current disregard for spacey stuff like self-actualisation.

Another possibility is INTJ. It's relatively easy for family members to mistake INTJs for Feelers, because INTJs much more freely express their Tertiary Fi with them: they show their emotional side in their family.

 

[OctaviaCaesar]

One possibility is INFJ. Hanging around lots of INTPs and INTJs as one tends to do when one is interested in science, and having an INTJ boyfriend, could explain her current disregard for spacey stuff like self-actualisation.

Another possibility is INTJ. It's relatively easy for family members to mistake INTJs for Feelers, because INTJs much more freely express their Tertiary Fi with them: they show their emotional side in their family.

Thank you, Wandering! Your ideas are wonderful. Before I went to college, I thought that my oldest little sister and I were the same soul in two bodies. She was always so good at being invisible and adapting to whomever she was around--I was duped! So I can see a case for INFJ from that point of view. Although, she is very P, I think, because our approach to homework schedules in college are opposite, and she is more easygoing than I am about deadlines. She was always called a crybaby by my father when she was young (he is ISTJ, btw) and so I always assumed she was a Feeler. However, not with me! She saves her juciest sarcasm and insults for me, it's weird. We have always had that relationship, too, at the same time that we were best friends. She told me today when I was trying to find out more about her type--which drives her nuts and she tells me I am unhealthily obsessed with this--that she has no orientation toward helping people. When she was little she wanted to be a doctor, but she didn't like telling others about this because they wouldn't understand that she just wanted to see and work on their insides, and didn't have a desire to save the world through the marvels of modern medicine.

And this all leads me to wonder how birth order affects all of this, too...

 

[arcticangel02]

I don't hold much stock in birth order, Octavia, (because the three children in our household are nothing like what the stereotypical 'eldest child', 'middle child' and 'youngest child' are supposed to be) but I suppose that would also depend on the parents... and what type they are. To be honest I think there are just too many variables to really consider it. Maybe look at the parents, and if they've been strict or whatever with the child? (In your case, an ISTJ dad teasing your sister about being overtly F?)



As far as hard-to-type individuals, I'm certain I've typed my mother (ISFP), but to someone who doesn't know her as well as I do, I have no doubt they'd have difficulties. My dad is an fairly obvious ESTJ, and it's curious to see how she's taken on some of his traits over 20-odd years of marriage. (He's been influenced by her, too, but in much less obvious ways.) Mum does come off like a TJ at times now - she's rarely emotional, quite rational and logical when dealing with things, and any sort of unfinished business drives her nuts: again, these are much more obvious in dad, but she clearly displays those traits too. Yet when she was younger, she never used to be anywhere near this organised, and when she was my age she was just as horrible as I am about bursting into tears in any sort of conflict. You wouldn't guess that now, but there you have it.

So I would hazard a guess that spouses, especially over a long relationship, would have quite an effect on each other's personalities. As you get older, you become more well-rounded, so I can imagine it'd be very difficult to type a healthy adult in their 50s or older, unless you knew them very well. Maybe that's part of what's confusing things for you, Wandering?

 

[quietgirl]

My boyfriend is untypeable. He's tested ISTP, INFJ, and ENFJ. He also seems ISFJ. When I had him take a test with percentages, he was borderline on all traits. The only thing I can say for sure is that he has a strong Fe.

Very frustrating!

 

[cascadeco]

I'll start off. (Note: They have never taken the official MBTI, just internet approximations.) Sister 1 has always tested as an INFP. I can see that in her childhood, but she shows no orientation in adulthood toward Kiersey's Idealist traits--especially not self-actualization, which she laughs at me for being interested in. She has an F preference, I am pretty sure, being sensitive, but she is interested in science and is much like her INTJ boyfriend now; I wonder if he is the reason for this. She also has always been an amazing artist. I cannot figure out her type for sure.

Sister 2 has tested TWICE as ENFP but this cannot be true. She is a textbook ESTP: as early as two years old perfect strangers would watch her and tell my mother, "I think you've got your boy there." To this day she is proud of being "one of the guys." She fits all the descriptions of an SP Artisan. I just don't know why there is such a discrepancy in the test results.

Well for starters, I don't think it's that rare for people to be a certain type, and then when taking various internet tests, come up as something else. And as INTJMom was saying, it could boil down to a disconnect between how your sisters perceive themselves (and thus how they interpret the questions and answer the questions), and how they actually are. Another possibility is that your sisters are borderline on one or more functions. I think the tests are much more accurate for those who are extreme E/I, N/S, T/F, P/J. Someone who's 40/60 on one or more functions would probably have a much harder time answering the questions, and might also test out as one of several different types whenever they take a test.

I know for myself, internet tests aren't great. With cognitive functions tests on the internet, I always come up as INFP. And for the longest time in my early 20's I thought I was INTJ, just because that's how I would test. In my particular case, I think a lot of my NT leanings would be due to my family -- mom is ISTJ, Dad is INTJ, brother is INTP. I was 'pushed' in that direction, so to speak.

 

[Jive A Turkey]

I think the tests are much more accurate for those who are extreme E/I, N/S, T/F, P/J. Someone who's 40/60 on one or more functions would probably have a much harder time answering the questions, and might also test out as one of several different types whenever they take a test.

I couldn't agree more.

My wife is on the fence with E/I and S/N which makes her hard to type. With all of the pressing outside influences is difficult not to force yourself towards the common ground.

It's funny. After I took a few different MBTI examinations, consistently tested as a biased INFP, and overcame the high and low of an accurate personality analysis, I asked myself, "You know who would like this?". And I promptly answered, "Everybody." Unfortunately, "nobody" would probably've been more accurate. I'm finding that most people think self-analysis is a bit silly. I'm waiting for my ole lady to throw me out the house with all my recent rhetoric.

 

[runvardh]

Sister 1 sounds like my father: dream child growing up, amazing when it comes to music and visual art, and he's a refrigeration mechanic. I have him down as INFP because of how he still relates to his values dispite the crap life throws at him.

 

[Wandering]

As you get older, you become more well-rounded, so I can imagine it'd be very difficult to type a healthy adult in their 50s or older, unless you knew them very well. Maybe that's part of what's confusing things for you, Wandering?

Makes lots of sense, yes. So I guess one way to type my mom would be to try and think of her as she was when she was younger? Not a bad idea. Thanks for the hint !

 

[alcea rosea]

I have some problems with typing my father in law and my husbands sister. Father in law is ISTJ, ISTP or INTJ. Husbands sister is ISTP, ISFP or ISFJ. She is not always very stable so it's not easy to find out her type. Sometimes my ISTP husband keeps surprising me with his big picture thinking and he seems very INTJ at times. I don't know why. I have even suspected my own type to be ENFx. My sister hates when I try to type her (very P'ish of her). She is INTP or ENTP. She herself says she is much like ENFP but I do not see the F very strong in her. She is definitely T. She does similar people tests that I see INTP's do here, so I would say she is belongs to the great INTP family.

It takes lots of self knowledge to find out what is your best fitting MBTI type. If the tests give lots of different results and there are no MBTI courses available (or one doesn't want to attend to them),I think the best way to find somebody's type is to observe them for a long time. It took me 12 years to understand my mother in law and it took me 3 years to figure out her MBTI type. It took so long because she behaves the way she thinks is appropriate and she hides her true self.

I have come across of many people who are obviously mistyping themselves. I think the problem is that a) they don't know themselves, b) they want to be something else than they are c) they think that somebody wants them to be something else. One guy at my work actually said to me that he is one personality type at work and another at home. Based on his behaviour I would say that he was somewhat unstable person. This guy imagined he was ENTJ even if his behaviour was saying totally different things e.g. he was definite P (started many things but didn't finish any). I have known ENTJ's and he was definitely not one. But he was unstable, and the MBTI is for typing healthy people.

 

[OctaviaCaesar]

Makes lots of sense, yes. So I guess one way to type my mom would be to try and think of her as she was when she was younger? Not a bad idea. Thanks for the hint !

Yes, Sis 1 was very INFP when she was young...I guess I will stick with that. Although I think she is a mentally stable person, I can somehow see her in the Artisan and Rational groups easily due to some similar traits she has within each of them.

Alcearos, it took 3 years to type someone!?!?!? Oh my gosh. I had better be prepared for difficulties in typing then. (I got The Art of SpeedReading People for Xmas and naively assumed it would now always be speedy .)

 

[runvardh]

I suppose I would confuse you too...

 

[INTJMom]

Yes, Sis 1 was very INFP when she was young...I guess I will stick with that. Although I think she is a mentally stable person, I can somehow see her in the Artisan and Rational groups easily due to some similar traits she has within each of them.

Alcearos, it took 3 years to type someone!?!?!? Oh my gosh. I had better be prepared for difficulties in typing then. (I got The Art of SpeedReading People for Xmas and naively assumed it would now always be speedy .)

I've got that book, too. I like it a lot, but what I've been learning on this forum is that not everyone fits the stereotypes. The books do help, though.

 

[alcea rosea]

I've got that book, too. I like it a lot, but what I've been learning on this forum is that not everyone fits the stereotypes. The books do help, though.

I have the speedreading book too.

It's hard to type somebody if they are not showing their real preferences or if they are trying to be something they are not.

 

[OctaviaCaesar]

My dear sweet grandmother was also hard to type. I had her pegged as an ISFP of an INFP, but I didn't know which. She has been notorious throughout our family for hating to ruffle feathers so much that she will agree with two people with opposite opinions one right after the other that no one seems to know what she really thinks on an issue. Her house is immaculate, she is never late, and she is easily worn out by too much contact with people. She practiced as a registered nurse, trained during WWII in a non-degree program taught by religious sisters at a Catholic hospital. As far as I can tell, she is ISFP, when I talked to her at Thanksgiving she indicated that she did not think she sounded N, although I am never sure if I explain things very well...she listens to whomever she is talking to for hours if they keep talking, and just agrees with everything anybody says and is so darn NICE!