Male NFs vs. Female NTs: Who has it harder?

[Ming]

I'll go with NFs males. People's expectations of 'men' to be 'men' are overrated.

I mean if a woman dresses in men clothes, then it is okay. But if a man dresses in women clothes, it's not.

Society still holds this view where men and women aren't equal. I myself might be one. (Or I might be an SP, which I feel like more).

 

[erm]

Of course NT females have it harder, because being female is an immediate disadvantage even in some of the fairest countries, especially since NTs may gravitate more towards those areas with the larger disadvantages. Just in relation to type, I think male NFs have it harder, because they are generally seen as worthless and a waste of space, the exceptions rare. They have to really twist themselves in order to fit in.

For STs and SFs its a very different story.

 

[garbage]

43.5% of men are abandoned by the world?

Hi, I'm Mister Eyebrows. I'm a sarcastic prick

 

[Ming]

Of course NT females have it harder, because being female is an immediate disadvantage even in some of the fairest countries, especially since NTs may gravitate more towards those areas with the larger disadvantages. Just in relation to type, I think male NFs have it harder, because they are generally seen as worthless and a waste of space, the exceptions rare. They have to really twist themselves in order to fit in.

For STs and SFs its a very different story.

Why is that?

 

[Synapse]

the current generation is better able to bridge the gap. however its still a very traditional based society that is, while favourable to the male hierarchy tends to leave the NF male, more so INF male, susceptible to a bigger loss than the female NT in terms of attitude and ability to deal with life. also the rational and the emotional aspects mayn't be as adequate in what constitutes value checklists that are being constantly appraised in a subconscious manner mirroring societies expectations in what should be the right context in which the female and male are meant to exist. the roles are still very much biased towards certain models than others and limited beliefs abound, tough to say

 

[erm]

Why is that?

Because the combination of N and F make for a person much further away from what is valued in men typically. One example would be daydreaming and fantasising as a kid, basing life around subjective states and such, being very abstract and subjective in language, thought and practice. In some cultures it was or is still valued, even in men, but rarely in western cultures. SFs are not nearly as removed from what is valued. Some, like ISFPs, can fit right into certain male stereotypes.

ST, especially STJ traits, are highly valued in men and women alike, if in different ways. NT traits are more respected in males, but it's equalising slowly.

That's not to say NF men are screwed. Especially those with Fi, as they are usually very good at changing themselves and adapting to these circumstances. It just puts them through more trials.

 

[MacGuffin]

I'll say NF males. Subverting gender expectations seems easier for women.

 

[Salomé]

Subverting gender expectations seems easier for women.

That's only because of this:

being female is an immediate disadvantage even in some of the fairest countries

The fact is, it's easier to "fake it till you make it" with type than gender.

But it's more likely for a male to be a F than it is for a female to be a T according to stats, is it really that unacceptable?

T
Males 56.5%
Females 24.5%
Total 40.2%

F
Males: 43.5%
Females: 75.5%
Total: 59.8%

source

Interesting. I always thought it was around 60/40 for both sexes. This explains why I meet so many more F men than T women.

 

[gromit]

43.5% of men are abandoned by the world?

The stats have males thinkers at 56.5% and male feelers at 43.5%, doesn't seem like much of a minority, especially when you compare it to female thinkers/feelers that are closer to 75/25.

Is there some sort of self-selecting bias going on here though? Do you think male feelers (and maybe just feelers in general) might be more likely to take the test in the first place?

 

[Kasper]

Morgan, the 60/40 figures are from an older study in 1964 by Keirsey and Bates.

Is there some sort of self-selecting bias going on here though? Do you think male feelers (and maybe just feelers in general) might be more likely to take the test in the first place?

There are different stats out there that have different percentages, the ones I linked on are the ones that I believe are most accurate.

About the data:

MBTIâ„¢ Statistics '98
The figures below are from a random sampling of 3009 people culled from a total pool of 16,000 using the 1998 MBTIâ„¢ Form M. The individuals whose form results were used in this random sampling were not provided with the data to verify or question their accuracy. But these numbers do provide a working base on which to build further understanding and development of the model as extraplated to larger populations.

At Toronto's 1998 Ontario Association for the Application of Personality Type Conference, "Growing with Type," Danielle Poirier gave an excellent presentation on the then-new MBTIâ„¢ Form M and manual, for those who may be interested in researching more background information for these figures. These MBTIâ„¢ statistics are from the psych-type list, circa 1998.

 

[miss fortune]

it's not the easiest thing being an ST woman either- we're apt at manly tasks, which is a threat... plus, the thinking edge always displeases the traditionalists

 

[goodgrief]

50 years ago NT women. Today, NF men. Womens gender roles are much weaker, but men are still meant to be tough as nails and unemotional.

 

[Salomé]

Morgan, the 60/40 figures are from an older study in 1964 by Keirsey and Bates.

Interesting in itself. Shouldn't something like type, supposed to be innate, be proportionally stable over a period of a few decades?

 

[Saslou]

I am going to say Male NF's have it harder.

Men are not supposed to be emo according to society. Although in relationships women want men to be in touch with their more feminine/emotional side. They can't win sometimes.
In the workplace, even i don't act F .. I play the cold hearted robot because that is what is expected of me.

Disclaimer - I think it is cute from what i have been reading today about NF's being emo dumper, crying after sex and all that .. Oh, the stereotyping. Lol

 

[Nonsensical]

so being an NF male makes you socially emo?

 

[OrangeAppled]

I'd say that INxx types have it harder than ENxx types, regardless of gender. I've seen too many ENTP women do just fine socially and romantically, but most INFXs struggle a bit, whether male or female. ENFx men often do well socially/romantically also.
The few INTx women I know have less trouble than I do, but I imagine it can be hard for others.

Between the two, I picked NF males, but I'm mainly thinking of INFx men.

 

[Kasper]

I'd say that INxx types have it harder than ENxx types, regardless of gender. I've seen too many ENTP women do just fine socially and romantically, but most INFXs struggle a bit, whether male or female. ENFx men often do well socially/romantically also.
The few INTx women I know have less trouble than I do, but I imagine it can be hard for others.

Now that's taking it too far. ENTP women have it easier socially and romantically than you as an INFP women? And INTx women may as well? Heh. Step outside your bubble, maybe you specifically have a tough-tough life but pha-leeeese! My empirical evidence conflicts with yours.

News flash: No one has it easy! Life is not easy. And one persons dramas are not easier than another from their personal perspective because no one has it easy.

 

[Salomé]

Now that's taking it too far. ENTP women have it easier socially and romantically than you as an INFP women? And INTx women may as well? Heh. Step outside your bubble, maybe you specifically have a tough-tough life but pha-leeeese! My empirical evidence conflicts with yours.

News flash: No one has it easy! Life is not easy. And one persons dramas are not easier than another from their personal perspective because no one has it easy.

Precisely. One would have to come up with some objective measure in order for this poll to have any validity or merit.


Damn, I'm such a T!

 

[Little_Sticks]

^ And the two lions decide to pounce together on the simple grass-grazing zebra. It's a bloody vicious takedown; it looks like they are eating the limbs while the animal is still alive. Tonight they will feast, but what will tomorrow bring these precarious adventurers of the animal kingdom? As we witness them closer and closer we hope to find out.

 

[William K]

When did this thread become "Big Cat Diary"?