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  1. #111
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Jan 2009


    Quote Originally Posted by aphrodite-gone-awry View Post
    I love this. I feel like this about my Ni (the bolded). I think it's especially interesting how you used descriptions of your dominant irrational function as if it were a 'judging' function. That is also how I feel about my Ni. Yes, Fe and Te for me can "judge" if hard-pressed, but Ni is truly the "gatekeeper" and responsible for what goes in and what goes out, whereas usually Fe and Te just gather data for it to use.

    Yeah, AA, Ne for me is really weird. Funny two weeks ago I would have read your post and not agreed but as of late as I think more about it, dominant intuition can be really strange. This will make the hard core MBTI-ers roll over in their graves but I feel like Ne can build such extensive models for things-just via connections.

    Then it goes back and cross checks against reality. "Hmmm, I made 47 connections into a massive 3D pattern...if true I should see this...." Those cross checks back for objective data may be peeking into the TeSi library of facts. So I suppose judgment of some sort. But Ne is the workhorse.

    The trick may be to recognize the flaws that our Dom N can give us. For me I have to recognize I use Ne to connect and then Te to cross check-but lack Ti connectivities. I have no need for them if my model gives me the proper predicted output-I am interested in the predictive data, not the model itself-where Ti is interested in the actual model as I recall from papa jung.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    They'll become more soft, more accepting, more wise - yet rooted, even more firmly. An apparent contradiction.
    Thanks PB! I think I would like to start a thread to chat more on this. My tert Te is all like, no "we have to structure this growth. We need stages, and metrics, and deliverables. Otherwise how will I know if Fi is growing?" I have a baby estj in my head... it is ridiculous most days....

    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    I was talking about objective reality.

    Not the subjective "reality" of each of our minds.

    Hence, law of the jungle: the reality of the harsh, cruel natural world.

    An Fe (or Te) user can think whatever they want about the nature of the world, but when they find themselves standing alone in the middle of an African savannah and a starving pack of hyenas just happens to stroll along their way, they will clearly learn that, whatever their opinions about the ultimate nature of reality, that supposed nature becomes immediately subservient to the law of the jungle.
    Do hyenas actually eat people? (Dingos do. You should use dingos in your example next time...)

    I cant remmeber why I posted that comment of reality but I think it was aimed towards social reality-interaction among individuals/groups...

    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Ti and Fi more alike than Te and Fe?

    I mean, I agree that there are similarities between Ti and Fi, but if you want to be making a comparison that's relevant to this thread, you need to argue that Ti and Fi are more similar than Ti and Te...

    Tesla has attempted to make essentially this same argument about Ni and Si vs. Ni and Ne, but, at least in my opinion, trying to say that one is more similar or less similar ultimately fails, as each is more similar and less similar in a particular regard. The difference is qualitative, not quantitative.
    Hmmm, this could be the problem... I have already Ne hopped to something else.

    U, (and of course Z) do you think this may be the source of confusion sometimes between NTPs and INTJs-For me, I will leave one argument and divert into a second totally different discussion based upon an Ne linkage. The first argument just isnt so interesting any more. Externally I could see this as being hard to follow, given the INTJ focus on the discussion at hand.

    It also may look like I "gave up", as I just dont care-this new pebble is far more interesting than that other one. I do this all the time with INTJs in real life...

    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    That's what a nobler, stronger-willed person would do...

    If someone just wants to sit around and whine that their dominant function is, all other things being equal, less deep or broad than its opposite-oriented counterpart, well, I don't really have pity for them. That's their weak-willed choice.

    Just think of the most mature ENFP, particularly with regards to his or her Fi use, and the least mature INFP.

    I would assume the mature ENFP would have better use of his or her Fi than the immature INFP would.

    That was my point. And I think it stands.
    "willed" is a very Te choice of words. An interesting one as it presents a value judgment (Fi) of character funneled through a Te judgment of externalized results.

    Yeah, I dont think the base Fi goo is the same though. another thought-to develop the aux Xi functions, it is not strength needed-but actually a safe enviornment-a place where all defenses can be dropped. But yeah, I am totally Ne-ing.

  2. #112
    Let's make this showy! raz's Avatar
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    Nov 2008


    IxTJs are all about willpower. Reservation from introversion combined with the logical standpoint of Te and the sense of self provided by Fi makes us cherish our ability to make our own choices.

  3. #113
    Senior Member Llewellyn's Avatar
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    Oct 2008


    INtj | 9w1

  4. #114
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Jan 2008


    Introverted functions are more ________ than their extroverted counterparts

    I would say, in general, that introverted functions are deeper than their extroverted counterparts.

    All I know is that when I get into an Fi-Si loop, which I often do, I enter and engage in a whole universe that resides within me.

    This Fi and Si loop, and for me, particularly, my Fi make me an extraordinarily deep person.

    This is why I cannot fathom/understand why ESFPs are perceived to be vapid heathens, they have aux Fi, this should make them quite deep and serious when it comes to their intrinsic heart-felt, hard-held values.

    Now, hmm, Ne vs. Ni, thats tricky.

    On various tests I score high on both Extroverted and Introverted Intuition, but I most definitely am a dom Ne user, and would I say Ne is a "deep" function, hmm, no.

    Rather it is a cerebral/perceptual platform of great magnitude and breadth, it sees a lot, macro and micro nuanced patterns.

    What i do know.

    Ti is DEFINITELY more complex and "deep" than Te.

    Fi is DEFINITELY more complex and "deep" than Fe.

    And, Si is DEFINITELY more complex and "deep" than Se.

    So, one could surmise that so too would Ni be definitely more complex and deep than Ne.

    The introverted functions are subjective, intrinsic, authentic, original, independent to a degree, whereas the extroverted functions heavily rely on the extrinsic environment/stimuli.

    Just some thoughts from someone who admittedly knows very little about functional analysis.

    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

  5. #115
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Nov 2007


    Hey CC!

    introverted functions aren't any more complex than extroverted functions, they just have a different focus. introverted ones are "deeper" (goes deeper into fewer environmental factors) as you said. but what does that have to do with complexity?

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