I'm an E type 4w3/ MB type ENFP-- questions

[Thalassa]

I remember one of your posts on thread about 4w3/3w4 about having super ambitions and wanting to achieve sooooo much... maybe that's what they mean about being intimidating. Being "very ambitious" and all...
you certainly sound like 3 and not 4. IMO. You can identify with 4 because of NF. All NFs can identify with 4, and not all are 4s. Go figure.

My mom is ISTJ and 4, and I couldnt guess it in a million years because it looks sooo different in STJ... but she is, i'm 100% certain now. She always slides to 2 aand starts pleasing people, being loving after having dramatic & self-absorbed rages. Not that this is the only way I know she's 4, of course.
Also, one of the biggest 4s characteristic is envy. When I was first asked is my mom envious of people (from proffesional who tried to help me type her) I was "hell NO" (bc my mom is very self confident, maybe overly even).. and then she said to me, knowing that my mom is STJ, "look, it looks very different in ISTJs, is she sometimes envious of not having husband who gives her financial security and all that?" - i was shocked because my mom is constantly like that, always crying about how her female friends have financially caring husbands. i didnt think of this because I as NF, when it comes to envy, dont think of financial stuff, I had picture in mind of E4-NF who is envious of other more special, more talented, more creative people... but it's not the case with my SJ mother, haha!

The same can apply to NF 3s, VERY different than 3 and ex. ESTJ. And NF 3s will usually think they're 4.

The reason why what you say here interests me is because the shadow of ISTJ is ENFP...we share all the same functions...is your mom living in her shadow a lot? And is there a reason why she would?

 

[Chloe]

The reason why what you say here interests me is because the shadow of ISTJ is ENFP...we share all the same functions...is your mom living in her shadow a lot? And is there a reason why she would?

I doubt so, she's average or little above average stable and healthy. And somewhat happy so...

my sister is ISTJ and 3, and 3 doesnt match her shadow but still she reacts like 3 in stress.

Or if you take unhealthy ExFP 7s... they dont seem to act like their shadow no matter how fucked up they can be. They usually act more like unhealthy 7, more stimulation, drugs, excitment. While ENFP 1s become more obsessed with order, perfection and following rules...

people when stressed/unhealthy act like their enneagram type. People who have matching enneagram and mbti type, like INTX E5, or ENFP E7, ISTJ E1 ... dont see the change in their behavior so much as some that have very different enneagram type and mbti type. This could be reason why some people with good match of mbti-enneagram dont dig this theory. They dont relate to enneagram being "shadow" because it's so similar to their mbti type.. but somebody like me who's nf and 3 can see very clearly difference in behavior while i'm unhealthy/stressed and when i'm not.
Also many uncertainity about typing can be because of enneagram, ex. ENTJ E7 cant believe she/he isnt P, but while getting to know herself and becoming more stressed /in shadow J become clear.
Or ENFP 1 couldnt even answer MBTI questions because of confusion.
also there are ESFJ and 4s, and 4 isnt like INTP (shadow of esfj)

 

[Thalassa]

I doubt so, she's average or little above average stable and healthy. And somewhat happy so...

my sister is ISTJ and 3, and 3 doesnt match her shadow but still she reacts like 3 in stress.

Or if you take unhealthy ExFP 7s... they dont seem to act like their shadow no matter how fucked up they can be. They usually act more like unhealthy 7, more stimulation, drugs, excitment. While ENFP 1s become more obsessed with order, perfection and following rules...

people when stressed/unhealthy act like their enneagram type. People who have matching enneagram and mbti type, like INTX E5, or ENFP E7, ISTJ E1 ... dont see the change in their behavior so much as some that have very different enneagram type and mbti type. This could be reason why some people with good match of mbti-enneagram dont dig this theory. They dont relate to enneagram being "shadow" because it's so similar to their mbti type.. but somebody like me who's nf and 3 can see very clearly difference in behavior while i'm unhealthy/stressed and when i'm not.
Also many uncertainity about typing can be because of enneagram, ex. ENTJ E7 cant believe she/he isnt P, but while getting to know herself and becoming more stressed /in shadow J become clear.
Or ENFP 1 couldnt even answer MBTI questions because of confusion.
also there are ESFJ and 4s, and 4 isnt like INTP (shadow of esfj)

I doubt I'm a 7 then, because when I'm under stress or feel out of control of my life, I become more like my STJ shadow and get bossy and impatient and want to control my external space. I act like some kind of SJ freakazoid bitch (nothing against SJs, I'm saying I act like an unhealthy/unpleasant one under stress) when I'm extremely unhappy or heart broken, though I can do the 4 thing and just give up and hide, but something in me won't allow me to to do that, I always have to keep pushing forward....when I'm happy, though, I'm much more relaxed and almost completely focused on relationships...

 

[Chloe]

I'm on summer break before my senior year of college and on days when I'm not doing anything productive, for ex. watching the OC and hanging out with my boyfriend at night, I get weirdly nervous because I felt useless and thus I have to go write, make e-mails or work out on days when I'm not working to feel productive.

and I already had an internship this summer & money from my parents but until I found a part time job as a hostess I was super anxious and feeling uselesssssss. I cant just sit still doing nothing, even if I'm perfectly happy, or I get very nervous. I'm assuming this corresponds to my 3 wing?

This is classic 3. Being "do-er", busy. Well, I'm incredibly lazy and non productive but I have that DRIVE. Planning million stuff to do..
Most of it fail, but I'm not really functioning 3... so dont be fooled by not being achiever (i'm not saying you arent but if you arent), for ex. i score 95% on P, but it all depends how much your 3 is active and functioning.

but then as a writer I am super snobby about being the best writer I know. and I decided on my next day off I would go into NYC (10 mins from where I am in NJ) for the day and wander around taking pictures & writing in cafes. that feels productive to me as well. and I identify with my creative self as my favorite part of myself, more so than my crazy nervous part that needs to be doing something productive everyday im not at work, or my internship.

well besides 3 (which i think you are) you're also NP so of course you value creativity and all...

about bolded; you identify more with your creative self (ENFP) than your 3 defense, which is true because your real self is enfp and 3 is only protection.

oh, also despite my ambition & competetive nature, I am very quiet about it all, and about 5ft tall & a hundred pounds who compliments & hugs people all the time, so I cant imagine intimidating a fly

I'm sure with ambitions you listed you can pass for intimidating sometimes. Maybe you arent aware of it, and it doesnt have to be all the time.
I think intimidating in this context mean simply being very amibitious and appear fearless even when you are fearful. 3 dislikes fear and rarely is aware of feeling it

I was also told that good way to tell is someone 3 or 4 is did they have serious suicidal thoughts. I know this sounds a bit stereotype but it's more likely 4 will have them. 3 is much more unlikely to be suicidal than 4, simply because 3 never gives up, avoids failure, this is also why 3 can look like 7 very much. But I actually like this because I know that the hardest times in my life, I must admit that some other people would probably dream about suicide, I never thought about such stuff because its really really not in 3s fashion... you're mostly to busy (either for real or in your head planning) to GIVE UP. And 4s romanticize (damn spelling) death so are probably more fixated on it.


Also do you after being very busy and lots of plans, if something doesnt go like expected ... go home and lie in bed all day doing nothing? it's also classic 3 to 9 slide. It can happen daily.

 

[Chloe]

I doubt I'm a 7 then, because when I'm under stress or feel out of control of my life, I become more like my STJ shadow and get bossy and impatient and want to control my external space. I act like some kind of SJ freakazoid bitch (nothing against SJs, I'm saying I act like an unhealthy/unpleasant one under stress) when I'm extremely unhappy or heart broken, though I can do the 4 thing and just give up and hide, but something in me won't allow me to to do that, I always have to keep pushing forward....when I'm happy, though, I'm much more relaxed and almost completely focused on relationships...

well if you relate more to 1 and 2, than to 9 and 6, you're more likely 4.
and this what you described reminded me a lot of my 4 friend he is also very cinical and critical, and harsh on people when stressed.

 

[gigi_xo]

This is classic 3. Being "do-er", busy. Well, I'm incredibly lazy and non productive but I have that DRIVE. Planning million stuff to do..
Most of it fail, but I'm not really functioning 3... so dont be fooled by not being achiever (i'm not saying you arent but if you arent), for ex. i score 95% on P, but it all depends how much your 3 is active and functioning.


well besides 3 (which i think you are) you're also NP so of course you value creativity and all...

about bolded; you identify more with your creative self (ENFP) than your 3 defense, which is true because your real self is enfp and 3 is only protection.



I'm sure with ambitions you listed you can pass for intimidating sometimes. Maybe you arent aware of it, and it doesnt have to be all the time.
I think intimidating in this context mean simply being very amibitious and appear fearless even when you are fearful. 3 dislikes fear and rarely is aware of feeling it

I was also told that good way to tell is someone 3 or 4 is did they have serious suicidal thoughts. I know this sounds a bit stereotype but it's more likely 4 will have them. 3 is much more unlikely to be suicidal than 4, simply because 3 never gives up, avoids failure, this is also why 3 can look like 7 very much. But I actually like this because I know that the hardest times in my life, I must admit that some other people would probably dream about suicide, I never thought about such stuff because its really really not in 3s fashion... you're mostly to busy (either for real or in your head planning) to GIVE UP. And 4s romanticize (damn spelling) death so are probably more fixated on it.


Also do you after being very busy and lots of plans, if something doesnt go like expected ... go home and lie in bed all day doing nothing? it's also classic 3 to 9 slide. It can happen daily.

ahahaha its so funny because I'm so hard on myself feeling like I never get anything done, and sometimes I do, sometimes I don't, but I always WANT to get things done... but my P is so damn high

and what do you mean about P being a protection? I'm not sure exactly how enneagram and MBTI interact, but its fascinating

It would be so funny if I could intimidate people... I kind of like the idea of intimidating others subtly... oh im a bad person haha. and as for being fearful? Probably rarely, don't even know. Anxious is something I feel often, but its anxious I'm not doing enough, or doing things well enough, not actualized fear of something.

and yeah as for suicide, its not something I'd consider, I hate the idea of death, it makes me uncomfortable and I'd rather fantasize about love or adventure or my next big plan.... is that very 3 of me? I HATE sad things. I don't romanticize sadness, I try to banish it mostly. But not in a 7 way, I really don't relate to that happy-7-ness so much. I feel like I always need to do MORE, like make plans or do something productive, not runaway para sailing to forget I had a bad day lol. which is sort of my conception of 7s....


and there have definitely been a couple low points where I've laid in bed lamenting a plan gone awry... thats not 4-esque?

 

[Thalassa]

I can come across as openly intimidating, but only if I feel it's necessary or I'm angry.

That's probably my 3 wing.

 

[Chloe]

and what do you mean about P being a protection? I'm not sure exactly how enneagram and MBTI interact, but its fascinating

I didnt mean P is protection; 3 is protection. You said that you're more happy when you're your creative self and not 3ish "do-er".. I said that you'll always be more happy as ENFP than as 3, 3 is more active in stress and when you're unhealthy.
I think MBTI typ = true self. Enneagram type = defense mechanism.
So both will always be present but it will be different who is in charge. The more healthy you are the more your mbti type is in charge.
And people with matching mbti and enneagram dont see this difference, but all people who have something very different like ENFP-3 or ENFP-1, ESFJ-4, ENTJ-7, INFJ-7 (edcoaching is INFJ-7 !) when you explain them see this clearly in millions examples in their life.

Real examples:
ENFP-1
INTJ-4 and ESFP-8

Anxious is something I feel often, but its anxious I'm not doing enough, or doing things well enough, not actualized fear of something.

And do you relate to "inner child of enneagram 3 -type 6" - you have thread in enneagram forum.

3s are afraid to relax into themselves because they "took things in their own hands" and are kind of "self-creators", type 3 develops from type 6, meaning, 6 feels unprotected and anxious because of that and then in reaction to that person decides "i will take things in my own hand". this is why 3s relate to 6 as inner child, because 3 is actually running from that anxiety and aloneness, so she feels like she must do everything herself, and that she exist only if she is DOING stuff.

anyway, 4 and 3 aren't that similar at all, it can be at first look, but i read maitri's descriptions both about 20 page, and its very different core fixation in 3 and 4.

i'd put 1000$ on you for 3

Holly Golightly from Breakfast at Tiffany's is ENFP 3, dont know have you watched.

and yeah as for suicide, its not something I'd consider, I hate the idea of death, it makes me uncomfortable and I'd rather fantasize about love or adventure or my next big plan.... is that very 3 of me? I HATE sad things.

dont know is it 3ish but definately isn't 4-ish haha


tell me something: when was the last time you failed at something for real ?? (try to observe your reaction to this question and how much it took you to answer )

I feel like I always need to do MORE, like make plans or do something productive, not runaway para sailing to forget I had a bad day lol. which is sort of my conception of 7s....

hahaha, yeah exactly. good distiction probably. 7 would runaway para sailing and 3 would go work on something or even if the day was REALLY bad go to bed all lethargic.

and there have definitely been a couple low points where I've laid in bed lamenting a plan gone awry... thats not 4-esque?

i dont know ask 4s. i think they do it in different way than 3s, 3s do it when 3's plans go wrong and then they just cant hold it any more and go to bed (9)...

i can spot 3 very easily... others, not so easily.

 

[Chloe]

I can see how your mom as an ISTJ fits into the 4 catagory... thats really interesting how that works actually. perhaps I am just relating to the basic NF properties of 4.

http://www.typologycentral.com/foru.../8511-edcoaching-s-q-thread-5.html#post403508
here is very well described how MBTI and Enneagram interfere.. and you saw she mentioned INFJ overlaping with 4s description.. etc..
anyway, this is what i was explaining

 

[gigi_xo]

the 6 as the inner child thing makes SO much sense. It explains a lot. whenever I get anxious which seems to be fairly often I just bury it in work and plans and productivity...

and I see how my MBTI and enneagram can be so different and it makes sense why I cant just relax as an enfp a lot of the time, though that is my preferred personality....

and I always related to Holly Golightly she was my favorite movie character ever, for years.... how interesting...

and the last time I really failed at something? my last breakup maybe? I laid in bed for two days crying and sleeping? but that might be a normal breakup response. we were dating for 2.5 years....

and I think you're right.. this 3 business is making more and more sense where as 4's seem a bit gloomy to me. I like the creative part, but I'd rather be ambitious and successful than obsessed with my own uniqueness... which is secondary to image and success.