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Pi = Judger, Pe = Perceiver; why?

miss fortune

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For a seemingly irrelevant question, if one's two strongest functions are actually Pe functions does this mean that one is a super perceiver? :huh:
 

Zarathustra

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^ And furthermore, I'm not sure how good of a definition "liking options" is for perceiving, cuz, as an INTJ (and I'm sure the same goes for ENTJs), I'm all about contingency planning...

I think "liking closure" and "liking openness" might be a bit more accurate.
 

Little_Sticks

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The thing is since we are communicating online, which is an introverted place, the extroverted functions are less represented. So an ExxJ will be seen as someone in introverted perceiving mode most of the time and an IxxP will be seen as someone in introverted judgment mode most of the time. It's just what happens, I don't make the rules. I just enjoy breaking them, but they still remain.
 

Zarathustra

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For a seemingly irrelevant question, if one's two strongest functions are actually Pe functions does this mean that one is a super perceiver? :huh:

Whatever, don't you dare derail this thread!

It means that you're a Pe dom and your S and N are balanced (ExTP [you], ExFP), so you switch between the two functions as your dominant.
 

Magic Poriferan

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Yeah, I figured I might be misusing it a bit, but, at the same time, am I really?

I mean, ExxPs seem to much less judgmental (in the normal, everyday sense of the word) than your typical ExxJ, in my opinion.

I mean, might there not be some kind of correlation between liking closure and being judgmental and liking options and being perceiving?

My experience is different. I find that EPs can be quite judgemental. They are certainly often as or more judgemental than IPs. This is because a Perceving process can sometimes lead someone to actually be much more stubborn or assertive than Judgement, because it is inherently less rational (and in other words, harder to reason with). It's basically more complicated than one continuum. It's rather multi-dimensional in its contextual relevance.

I believe that would be the case based on my claim, but it would be purely correlatiional, not causational.

I mean, I didn't say the ExxP is more judgmental that IxxP...

Get my drift?

Well there are two variables involves, which is why I understood that EPs were considered less judgemental than IPs. It's two variables with J/P being the dominant one (think of genetic alleles :D).

Anyhow, I guess the general idea is refered to in the point above.
 
G

Glycerine

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Yeah, I figured I might be misusing it a bit, but, at the same time, am I really?

I mean, ExxPs seem to much less judgmental (in the normal, everyday sense of the word) than your typical ExxJ, in my opinion.

I mean, might there not be some kind of correlation between liking closure and being judgmental and liking options and being perceiving?

Potentially there might be a slight correlation but at the same time one does not equal the other. There are close-minded Ps and open-minded Js.
 

Z Buck McFate

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I’ve actually wondered about this quite a bit myself. I remember reading something like what appled wrote- about the extraverted preference being the ‘face’ we show to others, and being the one we use to interact with the outside world- probably in Thompson’s book. Beyond that, I’ve got my own minor theory about behavior differences:

Judgers typically don’t seem to like the external world to be subject to change as much as Ps do. I think it’s because when the more dominant P function (be it specifically the dom or aux) is introverted, we prefer to have the external world remain relatively stagnant so that we are free to perceive introverted information. I know this much is true for Ni doms: we thrive on exploring internal possibilities and unstable external environments inhibit our ability to do this. Freedom is found in the mind, and external changes (that we aren’t in firm control of) constrict this freedom.

I suppose the inverse is true for perceivers. When the more dominant P function (again, whether dom or aux) is directed outward, then ‘freedom’ would be found where the external world is more subject to change- allowing them to explore external options.
 

Zarathustra

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The thing is since we are communicating online, which is an introverted place, the extroverted functions are less represented. So an ExxJ will be seen as someone in introverted perceiving mode most of the time and an IxxP will be seen as someone in introverted judgment mode most of the time. It's just what happens, I don't make the rules. I just enjoy breaking them, but they still remain.

Eh, I'm not too sure about this.
 

Zarathustra

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Potentially there might be a slight correlation but at the same time one does not equal the other. There are close-minded Ps and open-minded Js.

Yeah, but open-mindedness might be a J's form of closure (i.e., myself) while close-mindedness might be a P's form of "openness" (echh... the worst -- this is what I hate about some Ps... they think they're open-minded, when, in fact, they're close-minded as shit).
 

Zarathustra

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Well there are two variables involves, which is why I understood that EPs were considered less judgemental than IPs. It's two variables with J/P being the dominant one (think of genetic alleles :D).

Yeah, but it was the dominant "allele" (i.e., having a Je dominant function) that I was referring to as being the cause of Jness... :D

All good discussion, though. Been very thought-provoking...
 
G

Glycerine

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Yeah, but open-mindedness might be a J's form of closure (i.e., myself) while close-mindedness might be a P's form of "openness" (echh... the worst -- this is what I hate about some Ps... they think they're open-minded, when, in fact, they're close-minded as shit).
Interesting take. I would think that someone who thinks they are open but are actually closed-minded might be deluded. Out of curiosity, how is closed-mindedness a form of openness?
 

Zarathustra

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Interesting take. I would think that someone who thinks they are open but are actually closed-minded might be deluded. Out of curiosity, how is closed-mindedness a form of openness?

In fact, it's not; it is, as you said, deluded "open-mindedness".

In the perception of the subject, they are open-minded; however, in truth, they are close-minded.

I'm thinking of the close-minded ExFP who thinks she's open-minded because she believes in... hmm, let's say, gay marriage, for example... and she cannot imagine how anybody else could not have a different opinion about gay marriage, and, furthermore, that anyone who does have a different opinion must be close-minded.

In this case, the ExFP might think she's open-minded, but, in reality, an open-minded person would be open to the idea that people could have differing opinions about gay marriage.

Thus, her "open-mindedness" is actually close-mindedness.
 

SillySapienne

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In fact, it's not; it is, as you said, deluded "open-mindedness".

In the perception of the subject, they are open-minded; however, in truth, they are close-minded.

I'm thinking of the close-minded ExFP who thinks she's open-minded because she believes in... hmm, let's say, gay marriage, for example... and she cannot imagine how anybody else could not have a different opinion about gay marriage, and, furthermore, that anyone who does have a different opinion must be close-minded.

In this case, the ExFP might think she's open-minded, but, in reality, an open-minded person would be open to the idea that people could have differing opinions about gay marriage.

Thus, her "open-mindedness" is actually close-mindedness.
:rolleyes:

I wonder who you're talking about, here.

I'm closed minded regarding a couple of subjects, why?

Because what I believe in, (regarding these several subjects) happens to be categorically right.

It's not even about me, it's about the TRUTH.

:smooch:
 

Zarathustra

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:rolleyes:

I wonder who you're talking about, here.

Actually, I used ExFP cause I was referring to both you AND my ex...

:newwink:

I'm closed minded regarding a couple of subjects, why?

Because what I believe in, (regarding these several subjects) happens to be categorically right.

It's not even about me, it's about the TRUTH.

:smooch:

Well, to be completely accurate, a part of open-mindedness is to actually believe that, in certain cases, it might be correct and necessary to be close-minded.

And so, in certain circumstances, your point is absolutely true.

Unfortunately, with regard to gay marriage: it is not.

However, with regards to civil unions: yes, yes it is.

:smooch:
 
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