Your shadow

[Saslou]

Can you go into your shadow but not take on the negative aspects of that type?

Example - My job requires me to behave in a different manner than i am accustomed to. No structure nor routine amongst other things
I am also in a relationship where i have to protect myself by behaving in a totally objective manner as if i become subjective, then I'd fall to pieces probably. My stress levels are higher than usual but i am very proud of myself in the way i am dealing with these persistent nuisances.

My partner (INFP) and his friend (INTJ) are trying to type me at present as by my writing on another site, i am not behaving typically ESFJ. This is driving me insane, the fact that people who are not professionals in the matter seem to know me better than myself but then leads me to question myself, my beliefs and my whole structure.

I did the humanmetrics test last night and came up as -
Your Type is
INTP
Introverted Intuitive Thinking Perceiving
Strength of the preferences %
11 38 12 33

Is that my shadow in play?

If i am to believe my partner then i seem to be behaving more N than i ever have in my life, but it still seems foreign to me. I never test N, which is worrisome.

I read the profile for an INTP in 'The 16 personality types, description for self-discovery' and it scared me how much i could relate to quite a bit of it.

Now i am sure there are some very nice INTP's out there (Jock, Costrin and a few others) but i don't think i am like you. No disrespect.

I am rambling.

 

[JocktheMotie]

Your "shadow" would be an ISFP. No idea how you'd test INTP unless you were trying to or in weird mood. You keep the same letters, just flip the orientations. FeSiNeTi becomes FiSeNiTe.

For example, my shadow is an ENTJ, and his name is Siegfried.

 

[LeafAndSky]

You are rambling, and I am taking a break from transcribing audio files,
so we meet in the moment.

Don't worry, be happy!

Easier said than done, huh. About your supposed type change:
so what? I've tested as different types at different times, too.
Very different. The first time I ever took the test, back in about
1977 (?), I was INTJ. Type is a handy handle but it doesn't
define me. Is it important to you to have your type settled for
all and forever? Oh. Yeah. The "J".

About your job: I'm glad you have one in this economy!

About your relationship: Do you like being in a relationship where
you have to "protect" yourself?

It's the Ides of March. Maybe that explains everything.

Best wishes!

 

[ThatsWhatHeSaid]

I don't know exactly how MBTI and the shadow work together, but I'm familiar with how the shadow operates outside of that. Your shadow is the part of your personality you hate and are ashamed of--the part you go to great lengths to hide or change (or change in others). There are schools of psychology/psychotherapy (probably Jung's analytical psychology, but definitely Gestalt) that view happiness as the merger of the self and the shadow. In other words, you accept that your shadow is a part of you, unconditionally. It's real and actually quite a brilliant insight.

Best wishes!

 

[Saslou]

Trying to or weird mood .. Neither. I just gave them some consideration as opposed to answering quickly before i got bored.

Interesting analysis though .. I was under the impression that my shadow would be INTP as -

Under extreme stress, fatigue or illness, the ESFJ's shadow may appear - a negative form of INTP. Example characteristics are:

* being very critical and finding fault with almost everything
* having a pessimistic view of the future
* suggesting ideas that are quite impractical
* ignoring others' feelings

So i was thinking if i am capable of doing the negative form of INTP whilst stressed then why am i not capable of doing the positive.

Just a thought

 

[nanook]

i dont know you but i think i like you, like when i look at your pictures, and what i see is sensitivity, and by sensitivity i mean the trait of being permeable to all parts of one self, meaning the so called shadow. its a great trait, don't just look at the negative sides, but its hard to handle, for sensitive people of other types it's just the same.

 

[nanook]

i know a guy who looks somehow like you and he does not know his type (why ??? probably a symptom of him being enneagram nine) but he says he thinks he might be an introverted perceiver. he is odd in many ways and i cant type him either.

 

[EJCC]

I dunno, Saslou. I've noticed with me that the type I act like depends on the situation I'm in, so maybe, since ESxJs are really adaptable and really good at modelling behavior, you've started to act a bit INTP? For example, when I'm in a silly mood or around silly people, or feel the need to be silly in order to keep the conversation going, my Ne gets a lot stronger, making me seem ENFP-ish. And when I'm in a terrible mood, I can be pretty emo/INFP.

I dunno. I'm rambling too... wish I could be more helpful, lol

Edit: To reassure you, I'll say that I'm 99% sure that you're ESFJ. I've told you this before (I think? maybe?), but in your video, you remind me a whole lot of (a British version of) an ESFJ friend of mine.
No way in heck you're INTP, lol

 

[Saslou]

Don't worry, be happy!

Easier said than done, huh. About your supposed type change:
so what? I've tested as different types at different times, too.
Very different. The first time I ever took the test, back in about
1977 (?), I was INTJ. Type is a handy handle but it doesn't
define me. Is it important to you to have your type settled for
all and forever? Oh. Yeah. The "J".

About your job: I'm glad you have one in this economy!

About your relationship: Do you like being in a relationship where
you have to "protect" yourself?

It's the Ides of March. Maybe that explains everything.

Best wishes!

I am trying very hard to be happy. No i do not like being in a relationship where i have to protect myself.

Thank you The Ideas of March it must be, lol

Best wishes!

i dont know you but i think i like you, like when i look at your pictures, and what i see is sensitivity, and by sensitivity i mean the trait of being permeable to all parts of one self, meaning the so called shadow. its a great trait, don't just look at the negative sides, but its hard to handle, for sensitive people of other types it's just the same.

You see sensitivity, really? I am cold and distant. I am not a huggy-feely kind of person, gosh, i am even afraid of people touching me. I think i may be paying to much attention to other people and what they think.

i know a guy who looks somehow like you and he does not know his type (why ??? probably a symptom of him being enneagram nine) but he says he thinks he might be an introverted perceiver. he is odd in many ways and i cant type him either.

Can't win them all

I dunno, Saslou. I've noticed with me that the type I act like depends on the situation I'm in, so maybe, since ESxJs are really adaptable and really good at modelling behavior, you've started to act a bit INTP? For example, when I'm in a silly mood or around silly people, or feel the need to be silly in order to keep the conversation going, my Ne gets a lot stronger, making me seem ENFP-ish. And when I'm in a terrible mood, I can be pretty emo/INFP.

I dunno. I'm rambling too... wish I could be more helpful, lol

Edit: To reassure you, I'll say that I'm 99% sure that you're ESFJ. I've told you this before (I think? maybe?), but in your video, you remind me a whole lot of (a British version of) an ESFJ friend of mine.
No way in heck you're INTP, lol

I do know i adapt to situations. Where only logic is required i excel, where i have to show compassion or empathy, i can do that .. Just don't hug me. Maybe you are right, maybe i am just good at shifting from type to type.

confuses the hell out me though. Thank you for your reply

 

[nanook]

haha, i would never associate the term sensitivity with huggy-feely. (especially in context of strangers)

being permeable to your self equals being permeable to other people. other people's nature creates a resonance in your shadow, so when they curse you from their standpoint and you are sensitive it feels like god is cursing you. every time, even if its a stranger on the internet. (that is: only if someone truly talks to your shadow). and if you can open up to your shadow, its message becomes less literal and concrete, less like what the person said, and then you can digest it and it can help you. and if you can't create that open (irrational) mental space that allows for such translation/conversion, then its just fucking terrifying and you wish you were insensitive and could just recject those voices all together. but sensitive people dont have a choice. and if they are extroverted, they won't behave as extroverted as others do.

there are positive aspects of being permeable, but somehow the negative ones might be more reliable for diagnosis. its not something someone would make up. even though it can be confused with other troubles.

 

[Saslou]

haha, i would never associate the term sensitivity with huggy-feely. (especially in context of strangers)

being permeable to your self equals being permeable to other people. other people's nature creates a resonance in your shadow, so when they curse you from their standpoint and you are sensitive it feels like god is cursing you. every time, even if its a stranger on the internet. (that is: only if someone truly talks to your shadow). and if you can open up to your shadow, its message becomes less literal and concrete, less like what the person said, and then you can digest it and it can help you. and if you cant create that open (irrational) mental space that allows for such translation/conversion, then its just fucking terrifying and you wish you were insensitive and could just recject those voices all together. but sensitive people dont have a choice.

there are positive aspects of being permeable, but somehow the negative ones might be more reliable for diagnosis. its not something someone would make up. even though it can be confused with other troubles.

If i am correct, you are being so abstract now, that it is not even funny. I even wiki'd the word permeable.

I have just written a long passage and deleted it because what i did was infact contradict myself. To discuss logic with you, i must realise that nothing is set in stone. I enjoy the fluidity and yet my thinking can stop short on occasions. Thank you for your insight, it is much appreciated.

 

[nanook]

i am all for fluidity and not setting things in stone. and if i don't understand anything or it does not fall into place i just move on. eventually it will come back to me, when i need it/have use for it.

 

["?"]

The shadow of a type will be the same functions, but in reverse (i.e. INTP=Ti-Ne-Si-Fe; Shadow=Te-Ni-Se-Fi). They can be found here at the bottom of the page.

 

[Glycerine]

Some people say that an ESFJ's shadow is actually INTP. However, shadow types are highly debatable.

 

[The Outsider]

I am afraid of my own shadow, which is the reason I tend to reside in dark areas.

 

[edcoaching]

• Your shadow side can trip you up whe forced to use preferences or when life gets stressfull--and especially if both of those criteria are met at the same time
• Arguing exactly what is defined by "shadow" is probably pointless, but the biggest part of it in clinical experience and research (see "Was That Really Me?" by Naomi Quenk for the best descriptions) is that the function opposite the dominant erupts, outside of conscious control, and makes a mess of things
• However, when you consciously try to use that inferior function, you actually turn off the dominant, so it can be a source of rest, delight, renewal.

Often, hobbies reflect the shadow side for just this purpose. Intuitives take up counted cross stitch, growing orchids, building domino mazes to use Sensing. Sensing types decide they want to travel or take an adult ed course, or...my mother-in-law at age 60 joined community theater. Thinking types work on relationships or play pick-up basketball with a group of friends. Feeling types do Sudoku or read mysteries...

 

["?"]

Some people say that an ESFJ's shadow is actually INTP. However, shadow types are highly debatable.

Naomi Quenck’s books “Beside Ourselves” and “Was that Really Me”, and Joe Butts of typelogic.com coincide with the MB theory, and as you are conveying it. They both say that the inferior function is the fourth function used. In the case of an INTP, that would be Fe. I have some problems with this theory that I will come back to. ESFJ is merely the functions of INTP in reverse. This is unfortunately incorrect. For years when I read the descriptions in the books of the aforementioned, I always wondered why the Fe did not seem to fit. In fact even when I mistyped as INTP, I always thought there was something wrong with me since other INTPs said they have little use of Fe when I used it very readily. It became apparent that there was something wrong with the theory as I understood it.

The first and only MB enthusiasts that know to go further and say we do use all 8 functions, is Lenore Thomson-Bentz. In her book, “Personality Type: An Owner’s Manual” Lenore refers to our function hierarchys as lasagnas. For an INTP, Lenore’s lasagna theory went something like this: Ti-Ne-Fi-Se-Ni-Te-Si-Fe. Lenore’s theory maintains the consistency of the MB theory that the Si and Fe are the least used functions for INTP. Lenore’s theory splits the first two functions (Ti-Ne) and last two (Si-Fe), adding the other four in between (Fi-Se-Ni-Te) hence the term lasagna. The problem is that in splitting the functions, she misplaces the tertiary and fourth functions. After all, tertiary literally means “in third place”, hence the Si must go after the auxiliary function Ti-Ne-Si…. For balance, the fourth function must be a feeling function and be opposite of Si to keep with Jung’s principles, ergo Fe.

John Beebe as we know theorizes that the functions for an INTP are as follows: Ti-Ne-Si-Fe-Te-Ni-Se-Fi. This makes perfect since for a number of reasons. Although I can and do use E/I functions in combo (even Ti-Fe), it’s cognitively impossible for me to use two judging or two sensing functions simultaneously, and defies the laws of physics in believing that I can introvert or extravert two functions simultaneously. Thus not only do we use many functions in combo we can never use these functions together since they represent the same thing:

Si/Ni, Se/Ne, Te/Fe, Ti/Fi. In conclusion my least used function is not Fe as it has been proposed, but Fi. The same goes for INTPs. My shadow function is not the reversal of my four functions ESFJ, but even based on Beebe’s work it could be ISFP and as ISTP mine would be INFP. Followers of Beebe and Berens work simply say that our shadows would be the same function order of our normal type, just using opposite attitudes. Hence ENTJ would be the shadow of INTP and ESTJ for ISTP.

 

[PeaceBaby]

And when I'm in a terrible mood, I can be pretty emo/INFP.

Why does the rain have to fall perpetually upon the INFP?

I love you EJCC, but being sad or in a bad mood is not reflective of the natural state of the INFP.

And saslou, once you've taken the test more than two or three times there's little hope in my opinion of getting an accurate result ever again. You are too biased; you know where the questions lead.

Plus, if you read type descriptions, it's not weird to identify with little pieces of other ones here and there anyway. And if you are functioning in non-typical ways for yourself, I could see you identifying more with non-typical traits at this time.

 

[Jaguar]

Why does the rain have to fall perpetually upon the INFP?

People enjoy wallowing in their own ignorance.

Fi is about personal values, maintaining integrity.
There's a reason Gary Hartzler named his chapter on Fi, "The Conscience."
It's not about being emotional.

I love you EJCC, but being sad or in a bad mood is not reflective of the natural state of the INFP.

Sure it is. Just like the natural state of the ESTJ is torturing small animals.

 

[EJCC]

Why does the rain have to fall perpetually upon the INFP?

I love you EJCC, but being sad or in a bad mood is not reflective of the natural state of the INFP.

Sorry... I phrased it badly.

I meant this:

Under extreme stress, fatigue or illness, the ESTJ's shadow may appear - a negative form of INFP. Example characteristics are:
withdrawing and wanting to be alone
having intense emotions, that may or may not be expressed
being very sensitive to criticism
attributing unrealistic negative meaning to others actions or statements

^and also feeling like no one understands how DEEPLY I feel the PAIN... which is a totally un-ESTJ-ish thought, and it only comes up when I'm under severe stress. Very Fi... so I figured it was the negative INFP shadow.

p.s. I love you too, PeaceBaby