The Tertiary

[Amargith]

Ok so I want a list of the tertiaries at their worst and their best. Ime, tertiary Fe is something I just wanna pummel and get rid of, though it can also be used properly. And it's true what they say, the tertiary is like that teenager you just wanna strangle.

So..I'd like to see examples of all functions in their Tertiary use at their worst, but also how they could function at their best. We know that they can never be as extensive and as well versed as doms or aux's, but how can does a tertiary that has been developed properly function? And what does that concretely look like on each function?

In other words:

Which Tertiary drives you mad and why/how? And what would it look like in a healthy state?

 

[brainheart]

bad Si- hypochondriac, paranoid, detached from the moment reality

good Si- uh, maybe paying attention to the information/lessons of the past that are relevant and helpful?

 

[Litvyak]

Tert. Fi:

- Random bursts of emotions, uncontrollable on short term, like a roar. Paranoid convictions, unexplainable pathos followed by shame.

+ Internal compass, navigates between possibilities offered by Ni, and tells Te what is and what isn't worthy of constructing. Integrating values, empathizing with other people's concerns even if they seem illogical.

 

[JustHer]

Good Se: Ability to say "ah, fuck it" and go with an easier solution that may not be the best, rather than continue beating the problem to come up with the ultimate perfect one. Also, its awesome when it lets you bask in fun extravertedness and go with the flow and just enjoy yourself.

Bad Se: Making stupid mistakes and expecting them to work out in the end because you usually make good decisions so you assume that you can make them without a lot of thought and then when you do they turn to shit and your usual ENxJ self is disapointing with yourself for not thinking it through. Also, sometimes doing embarassing or really stupid things with future consequences.


What bugs me:
Tertiary Fi.
IxTJs can sometimes not realize that they're using Fi rather than their aux Te, and then they are so certain that they are being rational as usual and they stick blindly to their argument.

Tertiary Fe:
When people use it to flatter you or try to manipulate you for whatever reason, it's generally entirely see-through but you still feel like an asshole being rude to someone who is *technically* saying nice things.

 

[Amargith]

Good, good, not what i was expecting..I was kinda hoping for personal rants and sharing anecdotes here, people
It gives more detail to work with

 

[Litvyak]

Perhaps you should start, then.

 

[Amargith]

Sigh, ok, here's the post that made me make this thread:

I have to agree on the whole 'insisting on an appology when someone clearly had no intention of pissing you off, or did something on purpose.' It seems petty.

Honestly, that's the thing that wears me out about [tertiary Fe]. It expects you to catch every little consideration for everyone around with an overabundance of thank you's, pleases, and sorries, to the point where it becomes a bully. It like feels self-righteous to demand these things from people and becomes rude and rather uncivil in the process, which just looks ironic and hypocritical to me. Not to mention judgemental. This is also why Fi always feels Fe is judgemental, coz it expresses leading thoughts, jumping to conclusions according to the social norm and according to what social bonusses you received by your actions which you haven't even thought of but they won't even believe you hadn't, instead of listening to the reasoning as to why a Fi-user did something. It assumes. And, gets paranoid about the correction of its assumptions. Drives me mental that. Then it demands that you confess your lies or you're deceitful, lying, selfish, cruel or worse, in denial and need a reality check.

At this point, I just wanna cry. Really. How you can believe such things about me, it's just downright hurtful. I give you the benefit of the doubt and all you can do is accuse me and demand I appologize for trivial things coz they weren't up to your standards. And when I refuse, you slander my name and guilttrip me for being a horrible person?

At that point, I'd give anythign to wake up and discover it's all a bad dream.

/rant.

It made me curious if such strong reactions were also experienced with tertiary Te, tertiary Si etc etc, and if so, how one can grow past causing such irritations with others.

 

[sketchymcsketcherson]

bad Si- hypochondriac, paranoid, detached from the moment reality

^ This.

The best part of Si is the nostalgia.

 

[JustHer]

This is actually a good example of how Fi can bother me, so I guess it would apply to tertiary Fi as well:

I have to agree on the whole 'insisting on an appology when someone clearly had no intention of pissing you off, or did something on purpose.' It seems petty.

I dislike it when people put too much weight on intentions and no weight at all to what ACTUALLY happened. As immature Fi it can be a bit of a "Well I didnt MEAN to do put you in a bad position, so you cant blame me".

 

[Amargith]

That, i agree on, however, it can be considered a mittigating circumstance and it depends on whether it concerns a trivial detail or an actual action which caused a lot of damage. If it's a trivial detail that happened to slip through the net, then big deal, if it was somethign thath ad big consequences, it takes very immature Fi to not say 'sorry, I fucked up', i think.

 

[simulatedworld]

This is actually a good example of how Fi can bother me, so I guess it would apply to tertiary Fi as well:



I dislike it when people put too much weight on intentions and no weight at all to what ACTUALLY happened. As immature Fi it can be a bit of a "Well I didnt MEAN to do put you in a bad position, so you cant blame me".

Yeah but pure consequentialism doesn't really work either.

The important factors should be intentions + reasonable predictability of results.

If the person in question puts you in a bad position unintentionally, but could have reasonably predicted that it might very well happen (i.e., s/he was negligent), then yes I agree...but it's not the actual result that matters in moral evaluation; it's the predictability of that result.

If, on the other hand, I'm playing catch with a friend and the ball hits him in the chest and he dies of a fluke heart attack, I don't really accept moral responsibility for that.

 

[sculpting]

Bad Tert Te-I am highly irritable, bitchy, dominating, dont want to be touched. I will tend to lash out. I want to be in control of everything as I cant keep up with all of the details. It looks very reactive and is tainted with emotive overtones. It wants to lend control but isnt strong enough to supply direction. Ah, yes the tert Te bitch slap as well....Te can be cruel and harsh in how it judges others and hurts them without being aware.

Good Tert Te-Feels very grounded, stable, directive but not dictatorial. I can build plans. I can troubleshoot very well. If I can use with Fi, I can take a group and reroute them onto a more productive path. I can use it to gain the trust of ISTJs and then convey an ENTP vision. They can trust Fi, understand the Te practicality, thus I can get them to buy into the idea.

 

[JustHer]

That, i agree on, however, it can be considered a mittigating circumstance and it depends on whether it concerns a trivial detail or an actual action which caused a lot of damage. If it's a trivial detail that happened to slip through the net, then big deal, if it was somethign thath ad big consequences, it takes very immature Fi to not say 'sorry, I fucked up', i think.

Yes definitely, I think the problem lies in what a "trivial detail" is.. because where one person might think being late is okay and it happens, another person might feel like its a big sign of disrespect.. so you never know.

Bad Tert Te-I am highly irritable, bitchy, dominating, dont want to be touched. I will tend to lash out. I want to be in control of everything as I cant keep up with all of the details. It looks very reactive and is tainted with emotive overtones. It wants to lend control but isnt strong enough to supply direction. Ah, yes the tert Te bitch slap as well....Te can be cruel and harsh in how it judges others and hurts them without being aware.

Good Tert Te-Feels very grounded, stable, directive but not dictatorial. I can build plans. I can troubleshoot very well. If I can use with Fi, I can take a group and reroute them onto a more productive path. I can use it to gain the trust of ISTJs and then convey an ENTP vision. They can trust Fi, understand the Te practicality, thus I can get them to buy into the idea.

Uhh.. You're thinking of PMS.

 

[raz]

Uhh.. You're thinking of PMS.

LOL, that was below the belt.

As for unhealthy Fi, it's more of using it to rationalize bad judgments. You're in charge of yourself, so you justify bad decisions that are made out of immaturity or inexperience.

Healthy Fi allows you to remove external rules around a person and look at them as a human being. It also allows you to establish your independence to be used toward higher aims.

 

[brainheart]

The best part of Si is the nostalgia.

Maybe if it were good nostalgia for me. If anything, it's the moments I wish I could change. I never 'wax poetic' about the good ol' days. I have never been tempted to. Really.

I don't really remember details of the good things, just an overall good feeling.

Although I can have nostalgia for a time in which I was never alive, say the U.S. when it was still unspoilt. I would have liked to have seen that, not to mention kicked the asses of those dumbshits shooting buffalo from trains, setting the prairie on fire, etc.

 

[Tamske]

My Tertiary Fe at its best: I've messed something up and I've got to apologize. Suddenly everything goes well and I realize everyone has forgiven me already, just because I am honest enough to acknowlegde my mistake. Other people tend to forgive me easier than I do myself.
My Fe is very well exercised in apologizing . Now if I could get her on socializing and small-talk...

My Tertiary Fe at its worst: like my mother once said, I'm "not interested in people". I can act interested for a while, but if the subject doesn't interest me, the person won't interest me either. I want to talk about literature, science, philosophy,... If Ne can't work, Fe concludes the person isn't interesting.

 

[BlackCat]

Tert Ni at it's best- Figuring out something's intentions, implications, and how something will develop as it arises in the moment.

Tert Ni at it's worst- Thinking about all of the negative ways that a situation can play out, overthinking.

 

[sketchymcsketcherson]

Maybe if it were good nostalgia for me. If anything, it's the moments I wish I could change. I never 'wax poetic' about the good ol' days. I have never been tempted to. Really.

I don't really remember details of the good things, just an overall good feeling.

Although I can have nostalgia for a time in which I was never alive, say the U.S. when it was still unspoilt. I would have liked to have seen that, not to mention kicked the asses of those dumbshits shooting buffalo from trains, setting the prairie on fire, etc.

There's plenty of remembrance of things I wish I could go back in time and change, believe me you. But the ability to look back and remember comes with plenty of positives.

Yeah, I would be right there alongside you killing those bastards.

 

[Amargith]

Ok people, I want to hear some bitching about tertiary Te and tertiary Si specifically! Out with it!!!

 

[sketchymcsketcherson]

Ok people, I want to hear some bitching about tertiary Te and tertiary Si specifically! Out with it!!!

Sometimes I am far too aware of my internal state. I have a feel of impending illness, like something is wrong with the inner workings of my body.

Especially if the weather is gloomy or depressing, I have this feeling of something very wrong on the horizon. I can't get comfortable, I feel trapped in my own skin, etc.