ExxJ.

[Xander]

Is it fair to attribute the attitude and quote of "Do as I say, not as I do" to the ExxJ personalities?

 

[FDG]

I don't know. When I get around to say "Do as I say", which is extremely rare (probably twice in my lifetime??) I'm just being extremely furious.

 

[proteanmix]

Is it fair to attribute the attitude and quote of "Do as I say, not as I do" to the ExxJ personalities?

Are you asking if it's fair to attribute hypocrisy to the EJs? I say no. Any type can hold that attitude and not express it.

 

[Totenkindly]

Are you asking if it's fair to attribute hypocrisy to the EJs? I say no. Any type can hold that attitude and not express it.

That sounds like a closer to me.

Any last words for this thread?

 

[substitute]

Dunno, but you can say it of me quite often. I know it well enough, that I've translated it into Latin and used it as a tongue in cheek motto for years (non ut faco sed ut dico facite).

Thing is, someone not doing a good thing themselves, doesn't make the suggestion that you do so invalid or unhelpful, or any less worth taking on board. edit - in fact, it might make the 'hypocrite' all the more qualified to advise you, since s/he knows very well the consequences of not following this piece of advice!!

It's like a good tennis coach. He might not be able to win a Grand Slam himself, but if you want to, you'd better listen to him.

 

[Xander]

That sounds like a closer to me.

Any last words for this thread?

Last words as in "we're going to close this before it gets out of hand"?

I'm not trying to label any type as one thing or another. I have observed that Js tend to get disappointed or frustrated in others when they don't follow the plan and yet themselves reserve the right to abstain from plans should they think it necessary.

It's not supposed to be a criticism or one upmanship, just an observation to be discussed. If you have reason to think it's common in SPs, NTs, NPs or any other group of types then go ahead and say why. I'm only musing.

 

[Xander]

Dunno, but you can say it of me quite often. I know it well enough, that I've translated it into Latin and used it as a tongue in cheek motto for years (non ut faco sed ut dico facite).

Thing is, someone not doing a good thing themselves, doesn't make the suggestion that you do so invalid or unhelpful, or any less worth taking on board. edit - in fact, it might make the 'hypocrite' all the more qualified to advise you, since s/he knows very well the consequences of not following this piece of advice!!

It's like a good tennis coach. He might not be able to win a Grand Slam himself, but if you want to, you'd better listen to him.

I have a little counter saying too.
"Being a hypocrite does not make someone wrong"
A little logical flaw I noted in people many years back.

This facet I've noted in many people though. It seems common between my sister and my father but my INTJ friend seems less prone to it, though it still exists so perhaps it should be attributed more to a J preference than anything.

It just seems to me that ExxJs organise the external world and excuse themselves where as IxxPs do the opposite. I'm not sure about the other two groups though.

 

[substitute]

I think the word 'hypocrite' is bandied about too loosely, too. Someone just not being able to manage to always live as they believe they should, someone being human and falling for temptation now and again, though usually not meaning to and being sorry about it - that doesn't make someone a hypocrite. I've heard people use the word to describe someone who's just quite simply made a mistake, say, an oversight.

Somebody who makes a lifestyle of telling other people how to behave whilst, say, abusing their wife/kids or just being a real terror to the people they live with, also as a lifestyle - that's a hypocrite.

Someone telling people not to drop litter and accidentally dropping a Snickers wrapper, is not a hypocrite. Someone who gives someone else advice to avoid judging people, but who sometimes makes hasty judgements themselves, is not a hypocrite. It's just a human being.

 

[Xander]

I think the word 'hypocrite' is bandied about too loosely, too. Someone just not being able to manage to always live as they believe they should, someone being human and falling for temptation now and again, though usually not meaning to and being sorry about it - that doesn't make someone a hypocrite. I've heard people use the word to describe someone who's just quite simply made a mistake, say, an oversight.

Somebody who makes a lifestyle of telling other people how to behave whilst, say, abusing their wife/kids or just being a real terror to the people they live with, also as a lifestyle - that's a hypocrite.

Someone telling people not to drop litter and accidentally dropping a Snickers wrapper, is not a hypocrite. Someone who gives someone else advice to avoid judging people, but who sometimes makes hasty judgements themselves, is not a hypocrite. It's just a human being.

Exactly. The situations I have in mind are more when they say to you "you should really do it this way as it helps you dot all the 'i's and cross all the 't's" but when you point out that they have just skipped half of that process the response comes back "ah well yes but that' because I know what I'm doing". It was something I spotted in specific with my father in fact "do as I say, not as I do" was one of his quotes.

I'm now wondering if every ExxJ is "slitting their eyes" at me now.
(That's still an odd saying.)

 

[substitute]

Well I don't believe you were the first to use the word 'hypocrite'. It was inferred from what you were saying, by others. Though, IMO, you weren't quite as careful in the OP to describe these 'minor' incidents that you had in mind, as you ought to have been for it not to be misread, so it was inevitable that someone was bound to take it in that direction.

What you describe is something I see very often in the ENTJ's I work with, but to me that's one of their endearing qualities and I see it as something completely valid and not hypocrisy or something 'bad'. But I also behave in that way when I'm supervising someone to do something in which I have far greater skill/experience.

When you've gained a certain level of experience at something, then you're able to make those judgement calls as to when it's okay to skip something or play with the order of things, and when to go by the book. But if you're advising someone who doesn't have that level of experience yet, you'd naturally get a situation like you describe. I don't think it's a J thing though.

Unless... unless... it's simply a J thing to be more likely to have acquired a high level of skill/competency/experience with something, and therefore be in the position to say that.

edit - ENTJ in the room with me just now called it 'an executive decision'. He says if you're not an executive, you don't get to make them, but if you are, then you are for a reason!

 

[Xander]

Well the opening post was deliberately left short so that I wouldn't be hung with the rope I laid out (as is so often the case when you attempt to attribute anything but "hey these guys are awesome" to a type).

What get's me is people's resistance to having anything negative being linked to their type. Personally I'm a firm believer in the old theory that you like people for their good features but you love them for their flaws.

Oh and considering I'm saying that this "criticism" applies to my father and sister should tell you something.

Of course there's the old sited problem that some people will take things like this and use it as a stereotype to victimise people with but as is common with ym type, I don't give a stuff. Personally I try to give as little thought as possible on these places to repercussions of fools, I just hope they give up trying to press buttons in order and go away. Besides anything involving typing can be used as such.

 

[INTJMom]

Is it fair to attribute the attitude and quote of "Do as I say, not as I do" to the ExxJ personalities?

My ESTP father used to say that.
I would think that ESPs have the least amount of "control" over themselves.

 

[Domino]

Yes, I believe that Extroverted Judgers of any type may be more inclined to hand down Sinai tablets of "DO IT NOW". Any hard J might. Boundary establishment is imperative. All violators will be shot/prosecuted/smeared with peanut butter and left for the chickadees. My ENFP sister regulates this guillotine urge in me to drop the blade. My very introverted INTJ best friend is a blade dropper too, through similar and unrelated means -- we both hate redundancy and inefficiency, but he has a particular anti-social loathing for both that far exceeds mine.

Granted, INTJMom has a point. Bossiness, which I don't consider a trait so much as a flaw, is matter of control that seems to be wielded by various and sundry types.

 

[Xander]

My ESTP father used to say that.
I would think that ESPs have the least amount of "control" over themselves.

Odd. Both the ESxPs I know show very little control over anything. It's almost as if control is a foreign concept. Of course put them behind a wheel and they soon change but with drivers it seems everyone is a critic.

 

[Xander]

Granted, INTJMom has a point. Bossiness, which I don't consider a trait so much as a flaw, is matter of control that seems to be wielded by various and sundry types.

Oh it wasn't so much what they were intending by the statement, more the duality that they see something as the best way to do a thing and yet they themselves do not do it. It's almost as if their focus is entirely external at points so they don't see their own actions in reference to this ideal which they have set down for others.

 

[Domino]

Oh it wasn't so much what they were intending by the statement, more the duality that they see something as the best way to do a thing and yet they themselves do not do it. It's almost as if their focus is entirely external at points so they don't see their own actions in reference to this ideal which they have set down for others.

I can get behind this description entirely. You're very astute. I can admit to doing that from time to time.

 

[Xander]

I can get behind this description entirely. You're very astute. I can admit to doing that from time to time.

Oh the ENFJ one I've seen tends to be more
ENFJ "do this"
Misc "Why? You don't"
ENFJ "I'm telling you to do it because it would be good for you. I don't do it because I'm not in that position"

Sometimes my astute ENFJ mate Mike will admit that he's much better at giving advice than following it but he can also be tempted and caught evading having to take his own advice just because he doesn't want to. My sister, conversely, appears to just not think about her own problems and surrounds herself with others problems. It's almost like myself as I tend to avoid dwelling on my own larger external problems as it stresses me quickly but she does it more with internal problems. An I/E thing I'm sure.

I have to say the funniest thing is watching my sister get so frustrated with her sons disobedience whilst knowing that she would be as evasive and more stubborn were it her being the child!