is this Te?

[psyche]

I still can't wrap my brain around the ways functions are introverted or extraverted. So I still have no idea what I introvert and extravert.

Anyway, one thing I do, always and without exception, is need to organize my thoughts externally. Whether I'm trying to figure out the dynamics of a conversation, develop a theory I'm working on, or put together a presentation I'm going to give I have got to either say it or write it out before I can think about it clearly.

With more relational issues, like interpersonal disagreements, I tend to process verbally, with friends (often this verbal processing is enough, but sometimes I'll write out the exact dialogue between myself and the other person to better understand our commentary). Other more intellectual issues, like my work, I've got to write out; I generally don't like to talk about them because I prefer to work independently and think on my own.

So....is this an example of Te? It seems like it would be, but I'm just not sure. And is there a reason for needing to process relationship issues verbally, but intellectual issues in writing?

Thanks!!

 

[VagrantFarce]

Could be!

Extraverted Thinking is taking control of your surrounding environment by enforcing efficiency, procedure, structure, maximizing goals etc. Introverted Thinking is more gestalt - it's a sense of knowing how your environment breaks down into its separate variables, allowing you to make decisions on-the-fly.

With Ti you're not interested in controlling your environment, you just want to understand it (because knowledge is power!). Whereas the whole point of Te is to control your environment, in order to maximize measurable goals.

 

[psyche]

Could be!

Extraverted Thinking is taking control of your surrounding environment by enforcing efficiency, procedure, structure, maximizing goals etc. Introverted Thinking is more gestalt - it's a sense of knowing how your environment breaks down into its separate variables, allowing you to make decisions on-the-fly.

With Ti you're not interested in controlling your environment, you just want to understand it (because knowledge is power!). Whereas the whole point of Te is to control your environment, in order to maximize measurable goals.

Hmm.....I never thought of it in terms of control. It's more like I can't think clearly internally; the thoughts have to get out, ideally on paper. What I do with the thoughts depends, but they're not very clear unless I say them out loud or write them down.

This doesn't mean I'm confused when I'm thinking; I'm not. I do a lot of teaching, and my job is to present complex ideas to groups of people in a way that they can understand. I have to be able to think on the spot and respond to questions clearly. This is all fine; it's when I'm sorting out my own thoughts that I need to externalize them...or maybe teaching IS externalizing them, which is why I can think clearly in that environment.

Are there other markers of Te that I should be looking for?

Thanks!

 

[VagrantFarce]

Perhaps it's just indicative of an extraverted thinking process in general?

 

[psyche]

Perhaps it's just indicative of an extraverted thinking process in general?

Well, this is where I'm a real rookie. Even though I've been learning about MBTI for years, taken classes, etc. I still don't grasp the concept of introverting and extraverting functions, let alone doing so with processes. I was thinking I might start a thread asking for others to help me determine what functions I extravert, etc.

 

[Kalach]

Erm... extroverting the thinking doesn't necessarily make it extroverted thinking. You're putting the thinking out there, but what are you thinking about?

Wild surmise, totally made up, not necessarily based on any Jung, but assuming your type label is accurate:

putting the thinking out there on paper or saying it out is using extraverted SENSING to prompt (or express) introverted intuition; and thinking in the company of others is relying on Fe to prompt (or express) introverted intuition (with indeed the extra thinking virtue of getting others to provide answers too).

And when Ni is doing its thing, Ti will rear its ugly head eventually. Most especially so if the higher functions have been engaged in the task too.

 

[21%]

This is an interesting thread. I don't seem to 'get' Te either. I think I understand Fe and Fi, and I guess Ti. But from all the descriptions that I have read, I just can't separate Te from 'planning skills'. I know it's not supposed to be that way. I've been around ENTJs and ESTJs, and I noticed that their 'thinking' was somehow different from mine, but I can't put my finger on what exactly was different.

Then, what's even more confusing is how T and F functions are judging functions. I can see how we can use feelings to judge things:

Fe: I feel this is right (based on social values -- it's actually more complicated than that, but let's keep it simple for now)
Fi: I feel this is right (based on internal values/beliefs)

But when it comes to Thinking...

Ti: I think this is right (based on "this is how the world works" / internal principles)
Te: I think this is right (based on... ?)


From what I understand, skills are different from functions. You can plan without using Te. You can have social grace without using Fe. You can be analytical without using Ti. It's just that if something is your dominant function, you are more inclined to develop certain skills that are in line with your orientation. Right now I'm not sure if I understand what Te is oriented towards. Reasoning? Logic? Laws? Control? Efficiency?

Or maybe I'm just completely off on this

 

[BlueScreen]

This is part of Jung's description of Te. It's a good start.

As a result of the general attitude of extraversion, thinking is orientated by the object and objective data. This orientation of thinking produces a noticeable peculiarity.

Thinking in general is fed from two sources, firstly from subjective and in the last resort unconscious roots, and secondly from objective data transmitted through sense perceptions.

Extraverted thinking is conditioned in a larger measure by these latter factors than by the former. judgment always presupposes a criterion ; for the extraverted judgment, the valid and determining criterion is the standard taken from objective conditions, no matter whether this be directly represented by an objectively perceptible fact, or expressed in an objective idea ; for an objective idea, even when subjectively sanctioned, is equally external and objective in origin. Extraverted thinking, therefore, need not necessarily be a merely concretistic thinking it may equally well be a purely ideal thinking, if, for instance, it can be shown that the ideas with which it is engaged are to a great extent borrowed from without, i.e. are transmitted by tradition and education. The criterion of judgment, therefore, as to whether or not a thinking is extraverted, hangs directly upon the question: by [p. 429] which standard is its judgment governed -- is it furnished from without, or is its origin subjective? A further criterion is afforded by the direction of the thinker's conclusion, namely, whether or no the thinking has a preferential direction outwards. It is no proof of its extraverted nature that it is preoccupied with concrete objects, since I may be engaging my thoughts with a concrete object, either because I am abstracting my thought from it or because I am concretizing my thought with it. Even if I engage my thinking with concrete things, and to that extent could be described as extraverted, it yet remains both questionable and characteristic as regards the direction my thinking will take; namely, whether in its further course it leads back again to objective data, external facts, and generally accepted ideas, or not. So far as the practical thinking of the merchant, the engineer, or the natural science pioneer is concerned, the objective direction is at once manifest. But in the case of a philosopher it is open to doubt, whenever the course of his thinking is directed towards ideas. In such a case, before deciding, we must further enquire whether these ideas are mere abstractions from objective experience, in which case they would merely represent higher collective concepts, comprising a sum of objective facts ; or whether (if they are clearly not abstractions from immediate experience) they may not be derived from tradition or borrowed from the intellectual atmosphere of the time. In the latter event, such ideas must also belong to the category of objective data, in which case this thinking should also be called extraverted.

 

[raz]

It just sounds like plain dominant extraverted judgment.

That block of text above me scares me. Extraverted Thinking is about impersonal rational judgment. It looks at the outside world as impersonal objects to be controlled and managed, detached from the emotional attachment to reach a desired goal. It isn't concerned with being cruel or cold. It is focused on efficiency and productivity, impersonal standards of measurement that are based on logic.

 

[psyche]

Erm... extroverting the thinking doesn't necessarily make it extroverted thinking. You're putting the thinking out there, but what are you thinking about?

Wild surmise, totally made up, not necessarily based on any Jung, but assuming your type label is accurate:

putting the thinking out there on paper or saying it out is using extraverted SENSING to prompt (or express) introverted intuition; and thinking in the company of others is relying on Fe to prompt (or express) introverted intuition (with indeed the extra thinking virtue of getting others to provide answers too).

And when Ni is doing its thing, Ti will rear its ugly head eventually. Most especially so if the higher functions have been engaged in the task too.

This is very interesting. So maybe what I'm doing is using extraverted sensing? I'm expressing my iNtuition, which is internal (mulling over theoretical constructs and relational dynamics, ideas and systems and philosophies) through concrete means. I'm making the intangible tangible.

I'm definitely an NF, and almost definitely a J. But the E/I has always been in question. When I test, I type as one or the other about 50% of the time. I relate to descriptions of eNFj but not to iNFj so I've assumed that I'm an extravert. But if I'm extraverting Sensing, and I'm a J, does that make me more likely to be an introvert or extravert?

Thanks!

 

[JustHer]

Extraverted Thinking is taking control of your surrounding environment by enforcing efficiency, procedure, structure, maximizing goals etc. Introverted Thinking is more gestalt - it's a sense of knowing how your environment breaks down into its separate variables, allowing you to make decisions on-the-fly.

This is pretty off the mark. Te is not about "enforcing" anything or taking control. It's about how you internally assess a situation.

OP: have you read this definition instead?

Extraverted Thinking

I think this part is helpful:

extraverted Thinking helps us easily follow someone else’s logic, sequence, or organization.

and this:

Empirical thinking is at the core of extraverted Thinking when we challenge someone’s ideas based on the logic of the facts in front of us or lay out reasonable explanations for decisions or conclusions made, often trying to establish order in someone else’s thought process.

 

[Eric B]

This is an interesting thread. I don't seem to 'get' Te either. I think I understand Fe and Fi, and I guess Ti. But from all the descriptions that I have read, I just can't separate Te from 'planning skills'. I know it's not supposed to be that way. I've been around ENTJs and ESTJs, and I noticed that their 'thinking' was somehow different from mine, but I can't put my finger on what exactly was different.

Then, what's even more confusing is how T and F functions are judging functions. I can see how we can use feelings to judge things:

Fe: I feel this is right (based on social values -- it's actually more complicated than that, but let's keep it simple for now)
Fi: I feel this is right (based on internal values/beliefs)

But when it comes to Thinking...

Ti: I think this is right (based on "this is how the world works" / internal principles)
Te: I think this is right (based on... ?)

External efficiency

 

[VagrantFarce]

This is pretty off the mark. Te is not about "enforcing" anything or taking control. It's about how you internally assess a situation.

Of course it is! It's all about efficiency, organization...the whole point is to rally your environment toward identifying and maximizing measureable goals through empiricity and procedure. Even the link you shared points to this.

 

[raz]

I think people need to realize how essentially detached extraverted thinking is. Extraverted thinking is really just a thought process. It doesn't force action. You act based on your thoughts. Extraverted Sensing tells you to move along with what's happening. Extraverted Thinking tells you to stop and assess the situation. You act based on each thought, just in a different manner.

Make sure you understand what Introversion and Extraversion move us to do rather than what each function moves us to do. You can easily misunderstand a function just by associating it with actions that are merely a person using extraversion as their first priority.

 

[BlueScreen]

This is very interesting. So maybe what I'm doing is using extraverted sensing? I'm expressing my iNtuition, which is internal (mulling over theoretical constructs and relational dynamics, ideas and systems and philosophies) through concrete means. I'm making the intangible tangible.

I'm definitely an NF, and almost definitely a J. But the E/I has always been in question. When I test, I type as one or the other about 50% of the time. I relate to descriptions of eNFj but not to iNFj so I've assumed that I'm an extravert. But if I'm extraverting Sensing, and I'm a J, does that make me more likely to be an introvert or extravert?

Thanks!

Extroverted Sensing is ENFJ and ENTJs tertiary function. So most likely extrovert. You'll get a lot of the practical part from Fe also.

 

[Kalach]

This is very interesting. So maybe what I'm doing is using extraverted sensing? I'm expressing my iNtuition, which is internal (mulling over theoretical constructs and relational dynamics, ideas and systems and philosophies) through concrete means. I'm making the intangible tangible.

Well, it's undoubtedly NOT strictly extraverted sensing by itself. But, for example, if you prefer ENFJ, then you get a boost from taking part in physical things, being in the environment and seeing and doing. Se as tertiary. So actively *physically* doing things, like writing or talking to people is going to be normal and comfortable. And then, yeah, the intuition becomes expressible. And mixed in at a basic level with the intuition will be introverted thinking.

On the other hand, if you prefer INFJ, then you get your boost from theorising and discussing. Straight up Ni+Ti.

I wouldn't know exactly how to tell the difference between INFJ and ENFJ in these terms. Perhaps it would appear in who and when you chose to speak to.

Wild speculation: INFJ would be the more theoretically inclined of the two types, prone to more enjoyment in the theoretical, and ENFJ would be the more managerial? (That's actually not a useful speculation, in fact. Both types will enjoy the theoretical to some extent, and individual variation will undoubtedly be come into play, so that say an academically minded ENFJ would seem less managerial than a bossy INFJ... or something.)

The fact that both types focus their intuition with extraverted feeling makes them... dunno, what's a good phrase, "operational in the world"? Capable of thinking objectively about outcomes and requirements and making plans. But like is sort of being pointed out by everyone else, the difference between that and extraverted thinking lies in the content, or perhaps the focus.

(So the actual difference between Te and Fe is focus and affect? Holy crap! The conflicts between the two functions are IRL so very disturbing sometimes, and yet, formally, the functions are really similar. Ma Gawd.)


It is actually really interesting, working out what people mean when they say "I'm thinking". The term "think" seems to cover the normal operation of a lot of different functions.

 

[JustHer]

I think people need to realize how essentially detached extraverted thinking is. Extraverted thinking is really just a thought process. It doesn't force action.

Yep Yep!

Of course it is! It's all about efficiency, organization...the whole point is to rally your environment toward identifying and maximizing measureable goals through empiricity and procedure. Even the link you shared points to this.

Uhh, read again.

 

[psyche]

Thanks for all your feedback.

I think I just don't understand the concept of introverting and extraverting functions well enough to follow some of the comments here.....it sounds very abstract and I just have never been able to get a true sense of this aspect of the MBTI.

In time, perhaps...

 

[disregard]

Te is concerned with the object. Facts. Logic. Order. Sequence. Organisation.