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Thread: Baffled by Fi

  1. #211
    :) INFtha14's Avatar
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    Dec 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    Post #194
    Very lovely read .
    What is Feeling?
    Feeling is primarily a process.....that imparts to the content a definite value in the sense of acceptance or rejection. In the same way that thinking organizes the contents of consciousness under concepts, feeling arranges them according to their value. Feeling, like thinking, is a rational function, since values in general are assigned according to the laws of reason...
    (Carl Jung, Psychological Types, Chapter XI - Definitions)

  2. #212
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    May 2007


    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    If the person has Te as the "hero" function (ETJ), then organizing the desk will be his way of "saving the day".

    Why can I hear Edgar laughing?
    Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.
    — Mark Twain

  3. #213
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Mar 2008
    548 sp/sx


    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    He's only using shadow Fe if he makes a moral judgment based on surrounding cultural values over his own. I don't know how to say that any more plainly. Why is it that applying his values to the group automatically turns them into Fe? You don't have to use an extroverted function to interact with others.

    Again it's the source of the values that determines the orientation of the function at that moment, not who the decision is applied to.

    Yes, Fi could easily come to a similar conclusion, but what you're missing over and over is that the determining factor is what source the values leading to the decision came from (internal or external), not who the decision is then subsequently applied to.

    If he makes a moral decision based on his personal values and ignoring what anyone else thinks about it, he is using Fi, even if he then applies this Fi decision to others by criticizing the group for not following it.

    The decision to wear shorts or not wear shorts could be motivated by Fi or Fe--if his personal values are in agreement with the surrounding cultural values, then this is probably best interpreted as Fi, because he's usually going to place more importance on his own values than the group's.

    So it doesn't matter if the Fi user applies his decision externally; the fact that the decision was made based on internal values implies Fi use and not Fe.

    Shadow Fe would occur when he sets aside his own values in favor of the group's.

    That's fine, but you still seem to be defining "extroverted function" as "applying the decision to others after it's been made", whereas I'm defining it as whether the decision came from an internal or external standard. It's the standards upon which the decision was made that matter, not whether it's applied to the self or others. Applying an Fi position to others doesn't turn it into Fe.
    You're misunderstanding what I've been saying. I said I was not making it so much where it was applied.
    I said it starts with the personal values (the internal source); and when the issue [meaning the standard] expands beyond personal, to group, then, it's shadow Fe.
    As for the whole "caring' thing, the way I understand it, is that an expressed need of other people becomes an "external" source to the one responding. I did not say anything about "application".
    So both Fe and Fi will care for others. Fe will respond to the external source, being the person's stated need. Fi will respond based on either a personal sense of need, or a universal need (which is technically "external", but universals are connected with introverted processes, because they each person makes it apart of his own personal system).

    We're obviously using different interpretations of what constitutes Fe use. My interpretation is based mostly on Jung/Lenore, where Fi is based on an internal standard and Fe on an external one.
    And I guess I'm still more influenced by Berens, which is perhaps the problem. She describes the "processes" more in terms of behaviors (actions) and key words, so I have learned to express them in those fashions, even though I since learned that it is about the source. (I even had one pair of "experts" who operate off of Berens' key word definitions tell me I was "using" Te because I was "extraverting" my logic by sharing it with others or "the logical energy was flowing outward" where the "true" Ti user keeps it inside, at least until the conclusion is complete. So the concept of the "source" is what finally allowed me to see past that interpretation. Jung/Lenore, and even seeing Beebe material directly greatly helped me further straighten things out as well).
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
    Ti 54.3 | Ne 47.3 | Si 37.8 | Fe 17.7 | Te 22.5 | Ni 13.4 | Se 18.9 | Fi 27.9

    Temperament (APS) from scratch -- MBTI Type from scratch
    Type Ideas

  4. #214
    RETIRED CzeCze's Avatar
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    Sep 2007


    I am baffled by this thread.

    Wait..wait..did someone already say that somewhere in these 22 pages?

    Sowwy. :looks pitiful:
    “If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.” ― Oscar Wilde

    "I'm outtie 5000" ― Romulux


  5. #215
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Jun 2007


    Quote Originally Posted by Little Linguist View Post
    I don't know about you, but I am positively baffled by Fi. When people tell me to "go inside myself and see what I want and need and feel and believe and blah blah blah," I just scratch my head and wonder what the hell that means.

    Of course, I wouldn't say that I have no values or principles! I have very strong values and principles. I just find it hard to go 'inside myself' to see what 'I want' if it is not an 'instilled principle.'

    Can anyone else relate? How did you overcome it?
    Fi is field independent, therefore it is conscentious to what is outside of the field.
    What is the role of introversion in judgement?
    Objectivity. Fair play.

  6. #216
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Nov 2008
    7w6 sx/so


    whooo boy, somebody went and revived this thread
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

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