Too much credit to MBTI and not enough to male/female?

[kyuuei]

^ Imo, human beings are never too far apart from each other. We have the same needs, and wants, just sometimes various pathways and thinking processes to get to those things. I don't think gender influences those pathways.. the only thing that is influenced by gender is social statuses and traditions. (And let one person come bugging me about "but girls can't do as many push-ups whatchoo got now lolz?!... )

 

[Nonsensical]

Simulatedworld would not agree with this, therefore it is not true. you should feel ashaimed for posting such a ridiculous thread.

 

[Space_Oddity]

I have to say I agree with you, although I don't necessarily think the difference lies specifically in the areas the book touches. However, saying there is no difference between, let's say, a female INFP and a male INFP is denying reality. I know that when I'm "classifying" my observations about types in my head, I always subconsciously create a divide between male and female representatives, because the females have certain tendencies that the males just don't share and vice versa. Of course they're similar in many aspects either, but I'd say the mental connection I have with them is on a different wavelength anyway. Finding a girl who is "just like me" is much easier than finding a man who is, and not because of type (as a matter of fact I know many male INFPs and they'll always have a more "T" vibe than INFP girls, for example; and also many shared traits that the INFP girls can "understand" but they'll still annoy them ).

I'm not sure what is the basis of this difference, and perhaps no one can tell with certainty. My boyfriend believes that basically, "all men are concrete and all women are abstract". Yes, it's a stereotype, but if you look outside the "living in your head" stuff and cognitive functions, it might be something to think about.

For example, a friend of mine read a book (unfortunately I don't recall its name) where the author presented an interesting metaphor (I haven't read the book so I might twist it a little, but this is the general idea): all men are kind of standing on the shore and watching the boat where their dreams are in the distance - if it comes, wonderful; if it doesn't, they'll wait some more. On the other hand, women do not watch the boat; they create the boat, and if the reality doesn't match their dreams they'll take a new approach to reality and recreate it (if only inside their heads) so that it matches their dreams better. I think it's really spot on, and I'd say it correlates with the "concrete/abstract" very nicely.

 

[FDG]

For example, a friend of mine read a book (unfortunately I don't recall its name) where the author presented an interesting metaphor (I haven't read the book so I might twist it a little, but this is the general idea): all men are kind of standing on the shore and watching the boat where their dreams are in the distance - if it comes, wonderful; if it doesn't, they'll wait some more. On the other hand, women do not watch the boat; they create the boat, and if the reality doesn't match their dreams they'll take a new approach to reality and recreate it (if only inside their heads) so that it matches their dreams better. I think it's really spot on, and I'd say it correlates with the "concrete/abstract" very nicely.

That's kind of offensive usual bullshit "women are smart men can only repair cars"

 

[ajblaise]

Unless it's a gender related topic, I'm probably going to have more in common with an INTP female than an ESFJ male.

I think MBTI gender-blindness benefits T females and F males. T females don't have to feel like they're masculine or manish, they're just Ts, and F males don't have to feel feminine or girly, they're just Fs.

 

[SilkRoad]

Simulatedworld would not agree with this, therefore it is not true. you should feel ashaimed for posting such a ridiculous thread.

 

[sleepy]

Finding a girl who is "just like me" is much easier than finding a man who is, and not because of type (as a matter of fact I know many male INFPs and they'll always have a more "T" vibe than INFP girls, for example; and also many shared traits that the INFP girls can "understand" but they'll still annoy them ).

So, you are saying there really are no T-girls? they will come in the shadow of even the most F dude regarding T?

all men are kind of standing on the shore and watching the boat where their dreams are in the distance - if it comes, wonderful; if it doesn't, they'll wait some more. On the other hand, women do not watch the boat; they create the boat, and if the reality doesn't match their dreams they'll take a new approach to reality and recreate it (if only inside their heads) so that it matches their dreams better.

Well, you are being consistent in your subjective opinion. What you really are saying is that men can distance themselves to be able to make difficult objective decisions, where women can not make this separation.

 

[ajblaise]

Just inter-thread drama he's having.

 

[CJ99]

Theres lot of discusions on it in the NT forum especially the differences between ENT male/female as there seem to be lots of differences in that one!

 

[Space_Oddity]

That's kind of offensive usual bullshit "women are smart men can only repair cars"

No, that's definitely not what the author was trying to imply. It's not about abilities at all. It rather regards something abstract like love etc. In my experience, men usually wait for the "right one" to come, but women can persuade themselves that the one they have really is the right one (even when he's really an abusive bastard). That's why it might be so hard for some men to move on after they broke up with a girl they really considered "the right one". In perspective, women can see their past as really positive even when it was really negative and vice versa, whereas men are more realistic about things. But I'm not an expert on men, this is just what I can say from my and my friends' experience.

So, you are saying there really are no T-girls? they will come in the shadow of even the most F dude regarding T?

No, it's not like that. F/T, MBTI wise, doesn't really have anything to do with what I said. Of course there are T girls and F men. But there will usually be a stronger element of feeling in T girls than in T men, in my opinion, and stronger element of thinking in F men.

What you really are saying is that men can distance themselves to be able to make difficult objective decisions, where women can not make this separation.

No, that was not the point at all. It was more about the concrete/abstract approach to reality, not about feelings and thinking.

 

[Asterion]

Theres lot of discusions on it in the NT forum especially the differences between ENT male/female as there seem to be lots of differences in that one!

I didn't think there were... though I can't really remember anymore

 

[Kasper]

I can relate easier in terms of similarities to NTs of any gender over SF women.

No, that's definitely not what the author was trying to imply. It's not about abilities at all. It rather regards something abstract like love etc. In my experience, men usually wait for the "right one" to come, but women can persuade themselves that the one they have really is the right one (even when he's really an abusive bastard). That's why it might be so hard for some men to move on after they broke up with a girl they really considered "the right one". In perspective, women can see their past as really positive even when it was really negative and vice versa, whereas men are more realistic about things. But I'm not an expert on men, this is just what I can say from my and my friends' experience.

Stuff like that is why I prefer to look at MBTI differences over gender differences cause I can't relate one iota.

 

[sleepy]

In perspective, women can see their past as really positive even when it was really negative and vice versa, whereas men are more realistic about things.

Who decide what is real? Are you now saying that women really are E, where men are I?

No, it's not like that.F/T, MBTI wise, doesn't really have anything to do with what I said. Of course there are T girls and F men. But there will usually be a stronger element of feeling in T girls than in T men, in my opinion, and stronger element of thinking in F men.

but...I'm now slightly confused what T-girls really is.

No, that was not the point at all. It was more about the concrete/abstract approach to reality, not about feelings and thinking.

Okay, so you are saying all men is really S then, and women N?

What about the P/J? If you provide a scenario, I'll but down the last two letters. Then we have solved the F/M thing with regards to mbti.

---
Not saying this is true, but it has been said that INFPs tend to take generalities a bit to far sometimes, due to subjectivity

 

[Magic Poriferan]

I'm concrete? There's a chuckle.

 

[Kasper]

*pores teh spongie into a slab to dry*

 

[Magic Poriferan]

*pores teh spongie into a slab to dry*

Not without taking you with me!

Is there a substance called abstract?

 

[Kasper]

Not without taking you with me!

Is there a substance called abstract?

Absinth? That works for me *hopes*

*adds sugah and sets self ablaze*

 

[Snow Turtle]

Guess it depends on whether there's some form of correlation between biology and MBTI. It could very well be possible that NTs are biologically similar to other NTs and so gender doesn't really have that much importance. Gender in this sense is just socialisation of certain characteristics... like T being associated with masculinity.

There's no denying there are usually differences between the two gender in regards to mental development. There are afterall studies on the idea of 'mean' female generally being more verbal than their 'mean' male who are better at image/rotations etc.

 

[BlackCat]

For example, a friend of mine read a book (unfortunately I don't recall its name) where the author presented an interesting metaphor (I haven't read the book so I might twist it a little, but this is the general idea): all men are kind of standing on the shore and watching the boat where their dreams are in the distance - if it comes, wonderful; if it doesn't, they'll wait some more. On the other hand, women do not watch the boat; they create the boat, and if the reality doesn't match their dreams they'll take a new approach to reality and recreate it (if only inside their heads) so that it matches their dreams better. I think it's really spot on, and I'd say it correlates with the "concrete/abstract" very nicely.

Oh crap, I guess this explains why I didn't wait to sign up for mediation classes, recently applied for my passport to volunteer abroad, and am moving (today actually) to have more opportunities to pursue my dreams. Yep. I just waited, hoping that they would happen, even though you can make them happen by taking action.

 

[Seymour]

Here's my take one it:

• Some "gender" differences are the result of Jungian functional preferences (there being more female Fs and male Ts, for example).
• Some "gender" differences are the results of socialization.
• Some "gender" differences are in fact gender differences that are not the result of the above.

I think the above overlap in effect, and teasing them apart is difficult.

For example, female T's appearing a little bit more F than their male counterparts (as some have reported) might be the result of women being socialized to act more in F-typical ways, or it might be some actual gender difference.

I think a type-aware study of gender differences would be interesting.