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Do you think it is possible that NTs (esp. NTPs) are not good at academic writing?

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To begin with, I am sure that everything can be possible in every type....... but I always thought that somehow NTs must be good at structuring academic papers, good at arguing etc.
I have some friends whom I believe to be NTs, one NTP possibly and one NTJ, and I have noticed that they have difficulty with writing academic texts (even though I believe both to be fairly intelligent), even with the structure. I have read text by both of them and they were sooo short I was almost shocked.... My supposedly NTJ friend was good at bringing things to the point, but she was not really elaborating on her ideas. Similar this NTP friend....a strange mix of expressing things to the point and adding sentences that seemed to lack content at all......
Maybe this is just due to the individuals abilities in writing.....but I found this strange somehow.....
 

JocktheMotie

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My lab writeups and papers were always under the page limits, yet I was never penalized, except once.

If these are young NTs they might be still getting the hang of it, sometimes what seems like an obvious conclusion to the NT is not obvious to the reader. That's something my writing teacher told me in high school, and I've tried to keep it in mind ever since.
 
Joined
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My lab writeups and papers were always under the page limits, yet I was never penalized, except once.

If these are young NTs they might be still getting the hang of it, sometimes what seems like an obvious conclusion to the NT is not obvious to the reader. That's something my writing teacher told me in high school, and I've tried to keep it in mind ever since.

Thank you for your reply. This seems helpful :).... they are both in the latter half of their twenties..... But the "obvious conclusion" that is may not be so obvious to other readers is something I have noticed in texts of both of them....
 

Space_Oddity

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I don't think such thing is type related. I know a few ENTPs and ENTJs who are excellent at academic writing and at least one INTJ who is very good. But then, I went to a very prestigious high school, which definitely has something to do with that (much more than the people's "types"). I think that this skill requires both talent and education, and type alone doesn't matter that much. Neither age, for that matter.
 

mrcockburn

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Well, I'm terrible with academic papers/essays etc, however I have had a LOT of compliments about my creative writing/satire.

I think it all comes down to the issue many NTPs have with structure. You have to have a broad but concise and to-the-point thesis statement in essays, have to lay out your arguments step by step, painstakingly inserting bits of evidence that supports your statement, and then an explanation about how it all ties in, etc transition to the next statement seamlessly, etc etc. Very methodical, very...zzzzz. This is why Adderall was invented..

Oh, and the SOURCES. :steam: :devil: :angry: :2ar15: :ranting:

There are few things worse than having rummage through musty books that are only distantly related to what you have to write about. (You'll find books about Egypt and mummies, but NOT about why the ancient Egyptians were actually black...*not something I personally agree or disagree with...to me, they're decayed and green in their rot and that's all that matters...*)

So TRY finding all the required TEN sources, NOT from the internet, and then THE CITATIONS, goddamn the CITATIONS. MLA, AAA, WTF. It's a royal pain in the donkey to have to go and quote the "proper" way, remember where to put the page number, footnotes, bibliography, put the periods and spacing in the proper place in the bibliography. Just thinking about it makes me see blood. :yes:

And please have a HARD COPY on my desk next week at 8:00AM sharp, or you'll FLUNK the class, as it's 40% of your grade. Oh, and the paper is a 15-page MINIMUM. Forget to staple, and you lose 10 points!! :rules: :nono:

hahaha...HAhaha...MUAHAHAHAHA!...... :yay:

Oh...my point is, I always got C's on these things, because there's no quick, painless way to do them. All the red x's on my papers had a way of dampening my enthusiasm.
 

Antimony

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Well, I myself I have always been really good at writing, and writing anything. Essays, books, poetry, etc, I can do it. I get excited to write papers over how easy it is.

However, I do agree with above poster that the GODDAMN CITATIONS in these stupid papers drive me up a wall! I tend to just kind of skim through my sources, make some stuff up, leave some stuff out, and hope I don't lose points. Citations should not be included in a paper! This is for education! :angry:


But yes, papers are fun!
 

Blank

.
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Sources are fucking stupid--especially when you're fucking writing about some author's shitty-ass literature books. It's like, "Really? I can see that Biff wants to have children of his own by how he treats little girls. I don't need John and/or Jane Doe to fucking point that out for me."
 

teslashock

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Academic writing, like any skill, just takes practice. Some people have a natural penchant for certain aspects of academic writing, but IME there are a lot of things to consider:

1) Understanding the topic
2) Writing in detail about all the different aspects of the topic
3) Communicating the details in some understandable way
4) Balancing detail with organization
5) Writing on a level that is not too in depth for the interested readers but not too superficial to be deemed "laymen"
6) Structuring sentences and using elegant diction to give off an aura of sophistication

NTPs are probably good at 1, 3 and 6. NTJs would probably be good at all of those, though (thus why INTJs are so drawn to the sciences). I see NTPs in a position that's generating ideas, and NTJs in a position that's actually following through with those ideas, finding corollary ideas/problems, getting shit done, and publishing their works. NTPs are good at teaching their ideas and making their ideas sound appealing/exciting, but I don't really think they are good at focusing on some important details that aren't as exciting, which is a really important facet of academic writing.
 

Antimony

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They drive everyone up a wall :D

I would rather eat a citation than write one :steam:

OM NOM NOM NOM NOM!!!! RAWERRZZRKK!!!

Sources are fucking stupid--especially when you're fucking writing about some author's shitty-ass literature books. It's like, "Really? I can see that Biff wants to have children of his own by how he treats little girls. I don't need John and/or Jane Doe to fucking point that out for me."

Sigh. I need to force the government to make any type of sourcing illegal, unless it is copyrighted.
 

jenocyde

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I'm really good at academic writing, and I have a strong Te so they are organized pretty well. Very concise. My papers tend to be on the shorter side initially because everything seems so... obvious. And elaborating would seem so fake and patronizing, imo.

I was often told that my blunt, direct way of communicating comes off as arrogant because I expect people to "catch up with my train of thought". So I always edit in more fluff for wider appeal. But it took time to learn that. I am also criticized of writing from a very detached viewpoint that states the facts and does not try to engage the reader or make emotional appeals. I have yet to decide if that's a positive or negative thing, so I still do it.

On the other hand, my INTP bf never leaves one single detail out. He says in 10 pages what could easily be said in one or two. He speaks like that, as well. I have never once gotten through one single analytical essay he's ever written, and he's a professional writer. But I think his audience is other INTPs.
 

Wiley45

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I proofread a few college papers for an INTP. The ideas in them were great. The structure, grammar, and punctuation were horrific. I've also read a few papers an INTJ wrote for school, and she did a pretty decent job, although she used a lot of big words that just didn't seem to 'flow' well, which was distracting.
 

paintmuffin

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I'd say I'm pretty good at writing in general, although i definitely have been known to sort of blast my way through the structural stuff, and yes, my papers always turned out to be too short. My teachers were really nice about it, though.
 

paintmuffin

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I'm really good at academic writing, and I have a strong Te so they are organized pretty well. Very concise. My papers tend to be on the shorter side initially because everything seems so... obvious. And elaborating would seem so fake and patronizing, imo.

I was often told that my blunt, direct way of communicating comes off as arrogant because I expect people to "catch up with my train of thought". So I always edit in more fluff for wider appeal. But it took time to learn that. I am also criticized of writing from a very detached viewpoint that states the facts and does not try to engage the reader or make emotional appeals. I have yet to decide if that's a positive or negative thing, so I still do it.

This.
 

lunalum

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It's like, "Really? I can see that Biff wants to have children of his own by how he treats little girls. I don't need John and/or Jane Doe to fucking point that out for me."

Perhaps it is situations like this where NTs struggle with academic writing. The way we figure things out seems to be more about taking clues from within the original information and using basic truths to make sense of it and give it new meaning, and less about "Jack said this, and Jill said this, so it must be true." I struggle with having reasoned to a conclusion and then having to put in citations somehow... it is just so cluttering and unnecessary.

Also, I still do not see the division between my ideas and others ideas. Finding who originated a certain idea seems nearly impossible. And for general ideas, there is so much overlap to who thought of what. Anyway, I do not know what to make of this "intellectual ownership" business...
 

Valuable_Money

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No
NTPs are masters of pretending they know what the hell theyre talking about.
 

Tamske

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My lab writeups and papers were always under the page limits, yet I was never penalized, except once.
Hang on, a page limit is a maximum, isn't it?
To me, to the point and clear are the ways to go.

I've never had real difficulties with it. One of my research papers (a very short one indeed, about a small but quite essential problem) has been accepted "as is" by a science journal, so I guess I'm fairly on the mark!

But then again, I love writing, so probably I'm just experienced at it due to lots of exercise... I've given some hints about academic writing in the "ask an ENTP" thread, too.
 

DiscoBiscuit

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I have no trouble with academic writing.

To be honest, it's a medium I'm more comfortable with.
 

Randomnity

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Ti vs Te would probably lead to different writing styles, but I think either can learn to excel in this area, it's not really an inborn trait but more of a learned one, though it comes more naturally to some.

I identify with most of the Ti users here. I have been doing well in scientific academic writing so far though I did relatively poorly in "english class" writing, which I loathed.
 

Asterion

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Ti vs Te would probably lead to different writing styles, but I think either can learn to excel in this area, it's not really an inborn trait but more of a learned one, though it comes more naturally to some.

I identify with most of the Ti users here. I have been doing well in scientific academic writing so far though I did relatively poorly in "english class" writing, which I loathed.

English class writing was the most difficult subject I faced... I had no idea what they wanted me to write, and I had a really awesome habit of forgetting what the question was... not to mention I'd write 2 pages worth of stuff... then scribble most of it out, my entire book was a mess, I even started writing in pencil lol. I can write scientific articles quite well, most of the ones I've written have achieved 90% marks or so... the ones that didn't were marked by angry teachers :headphne:
 
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