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is Mbti becoming a religion?

jcloudz

Yup
Joined
Nov 5, 2009
Messages
1,525
MBTI Type
Istj
some people follow it just as strong as the bible to map lives and make decisions, is this wise? what are the possible pitfalls that people may occur up on following it?
 

Thalassa

Permabanned
Joined
May 3, 2009
Messages
25,183
MBTI Type
ISFP
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
sx
If MBTI is a religion, I am like the lady who shows up at church just for the cake and the gossip.
 

alexx

New member
Joined
Dec 30, 2008
Messages
503
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
2w1
Well, Atheism, Environmentalism and the Flying Spaghetti Monster have so who knows.
 

MagnifaSnail

New member
Joined
Jan 2, 2010
Messages
28
MBTI Type
INxP
Enneagram
5w4
It's bad to be absolutist about pretty much anything in my opinion. Yeah, MBTI is really interesting but it's far from flawless. In that sense it's like most of the field of psychology. Really interesting and often helpful but far from the reliability and certainty of the older numerical-data-based sciences (e.g. physics).

So yeah, use it as a tool and try to make connections and fill in gaps yourself when the theory falls short. The potential "pitfalls" of using MBTI as a code of life are near endless and seem pretty self evident to me. So that's just real neato I guess.
 

Totenkindly

@.~*virinaĉo*~.@
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
50,192
MBTI Type
BELF
Enneagram
594
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
btw, we're going to install an offering every Monday on this site.
You don't have to give anything... but sadly the Great and Powerful Haight won't bless you if you don't.

(Remember: It's better to give than receive, and Haight loveth a cheerful giver!)

It's bad to be absolutist about pretty much anything in my opinion.

On a serious note, yes... that.
 

BlueScreen

Fail 2.0
Joined
Nov 8, 2008
Messages
2,668
MBTI Type
YMCA
if so what are the possible pitfalls people may occur up on?

To take it too seriously. It can work well as a loose guide. You are basically grouping people who are similar so you can study certain human traits, or know what area they will be most comfortable in. The biggest trap is to assume two people of the same type are any more than similar. The best way to put it into perspective is that there are probably 100 million other INFJs on Earth. Either you are the same as 100 million other people and I am the same as a tenth of the world's population, or we are just statistically similar in some areas. It is easy to choose the second one because that is basically what the test does. It takes a set of traits (that are not a complete description of human behaviours) and it looks which people possess similar ones. People within a certain range are given the same letters and referred to as the same type.

So the biggest hang up would be to believe what you can apply to person A of type X can be applied to person B of type X. Even if it applies to 90% of type X you can still only guess there's a good chance the person has the trait. Some people don't work well with probabilities and need things to apply or not apply, they get themselves in trouble. With most posts on here it is assumed that we are describing the more common attributes of a type, not all of its members.

The other problem is defining functions in terms of actions, when cognitive psychology is about information processing styles. eg. saying Xi is mean to people and eats cheese on Tuesdays is meaningless. They are predisposed to doing things a certain way because of how they see the situation and their approach. Some actions can be seen regularly in a type when the underlying process corners them into acting a certain way, some can never be consistent across a type and are just a matter of interest and personal choice.
 

Mad Hatter

Head Pigeon
Joined
Nov 3, 2009
Messages
1,087
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
-1w
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
:laugh: If it's becoming a religion, it's just another thing I'll be agnostic about.

It's simply a tool - no more, no less. If it helps - fine. If it doesn't, it's not because you don't believe in it strongly enough.
 

Spamtar

Ghost Monkey Soul
Joined
Sep 1, 2009
Messages
4,468
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w4
We need our own mythology. I suggest ghosts, zombies, space aliens, talking animals, time machines, space travel, TV evangelists, sex scandals, alternate universes, warring factions, genocide, numerology, symbolism, astrology/astonomy connecion, the illuminate, martial artist monks, various sacraments and mysteries, incense, tarot, climatic predictions, speaking in tongues a tie in to a Dan Brown novel (with a movie deal) prophet(s) and finally a martyr...as foretold Chapter 7 verse 11 in the book of Spam.

PS. Oh yeah also a "great prostitute"...and bargain rate Wednesdays.
 

Kalach

Filthy Apes!
Joined
Dec 3, 2008
Messages
4,310
MBTI Type
INTJ
The biggest pitfall is to forget that it's true. If you forget it's true, you forget that the approaches each person takes to truth and feeling don't just differ, they differ in reasonable and meaningful ways.

It is generally speaking, horseshit to observe that we all have different ideas and feelings. Undifferentiated difference, ironically, tends each person to think that if only everyone else would just do like I do, then they'd be okay. So if you forget that the Jung crap is true, you forget that genuinely and meaningfully different needs exist.

There's your religion: accepting difference as real, respectable and valued.
 

Mad Hatter

Head Pigeon
Joined
Nov 3, 2009
Messages
1,087
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
-1w
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
The biggest pitfall is to forget that it's true.

It's unfalsifiable. But it can offer plausible results.

It is generally speaking, horseshit to observe that we all have different ideas and feelings.

There's your religion: accepting difference as real, respectable and valued.

You can't accept those differences before you observe them.

Undifferentiated difference, ironically, tends each person to think that if only everyone else would just do like I do, then they'd be okay. So if you forget that the Jung crap is true, you forget that genuinely and meaningfully different needs exist.

What does undifferented difference mean? You can perceive people as either similar or different. But even slightly different is different.
Whether you perceive these differences as meaningful or not does necessarily follow from the fact that you perceive them in the first place. The first means perception, the second means judgment.
 

William K

Uniqueorn
Joined
Aug 13, 2009
Messages
986
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
4w5
some people follow it just as strong as the bible to map lives and make decisions, is this wise? what are the possible pitfalls that people may occur up on following it?

Well, the main problem I see is that it leads to logic like this

- I know a person A of type WXYZ and he acts in a certain (negative) way
- I know another person B of type WXYZ who acts in similar ways
- Type WXYZ leads with cognitive functions CD
- Because I know 2 ppl of type WXYZ who acts that way, then ALL the other several million people who also has function CD must also act that way

Also, of course as mentioned above, just because one portion of MBTI is correct doesn't necessarily mean all of it is correct.

Side note : Why is this in the Idyllic?
 

Moiety

New member
Joined
Aug 3, 2008
Messages
5,996
MBTI Type
ISFJ
some people follow it just as strong as the bible to map lives and make decisions, is this wise? what are the possible pitfalls that people may occur up on following it?

MBTI does not deal with "facts" therefore the biggest pitfall would be to look at "it" (forgetting for a minute, how there are different conflicting sources writing about it) and regard it as such.

The biggest pitfall would be to not relativize its importance and not understand its power lies in the fact it's a relative system. It's meaningless if you don't take some liberties beforehand.
 

PureStealth

New member
Joined
Aug 8, 2009
Messages
18
MBTI Type
INTJ
Its a model, it can be used to make predictions with reasonable accuracy. Nothing more.
 

CuriousFeeling

From the Undertow
Joined
Dec 18, 2009
Messages
2,937
MBTI Type
INfJ
Enneagram
4w5
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
I don't think of it as a religion, I think of it like a litmus test to quantify and qualify personality traits.
 

Kalach

Filthy Apes!
Joined
Dec 3, 2008
Messages
4,310
MBTI Type
INTJ
It's unfalsifiable. But it can offer plausible results.

So unfalsifiable but truthifiable? Odd odd odd...

I think I know why this constant observation of unfalsifiability grates: it's rather like observing that metaphors aren't literally true. Well no, they're not, and that's nice to know.

You can't accept those differences before you observe them.

You can't?

What does undifferented difference mean?

Me + everyone else.

vs

Me + the other NJs + the Fs + the Ss + etc

The second one allows two kinds of difference: "different from me" and "different from each other".

And that presumably is what the Jungian crap substantially is, a definition of "different from each other" as different from "different from me".

You can perceive people as either similar or different. But even slightly different is different.
Whether you perceive these differences as meaningful or not does necessarily follow from the fact that you perceive them in the first place. The first means perception, the second means judgment.

Well yeah. And the existence of a model like this Jungian crap informs judgment. And I'm a J so judgment is like crack, but that doesn't mean I'm wrong. Just means I'm not laid back.


The model may be wrong. Daily experience that appears to corroborate the model may be confirmation bias. Everything could be different.

But modal verbs do NOT indicate the absence of judgment, just the absence of a particular kind of judgment. And so on.
 

PureStealth

New member
Joined
Aug 8, 2009
Messages
18
MBTI Type
INTJ
The model may be wrong. Daily experience that appears to corroborate the model may be confirmation bias. Everything could be different.

And this is fine, as long as people are aware that the predictions you take from a biased model will also be biased.

It works as long as you see the predictions that can be drawn from the Mbti model as statistically significant suggestions towards behavioral preferences rather than relying on it to tell you exactly how an individual will act.
 

occasionally shane

New member
Joined
Jan 4, 2010
Messages
6
MBTI Type
infp
for those who think each type is only capable of their positive attributes, then yes, this is nothing more than a religion.

if you are able to see / imagine / empathize that certain individuals such as hitler, ted bundy, and the boston strangler where separate individuals with distinct (yet disagreeable) temperament types then you are on the path to enlightenment, or reality depending on your religion/beliefs/whatever.
 
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