CelebrityTypes.com: Feedback welcome

[Lauren Ashley]

Economica, I don't think what Rhu said was that bad. While the second paragraph was kind of rubbing it in, I think what he said was constructive. And his second response was even giving tips on how to make the site better. The others' responses, however, were not helpful. But those are the kind of responses I'd expect from INTPc members. At least they always come through...

 

[Economica]

Example: "The site is poorly designed."

How does that enable me to make a better design? All it does is alert me to the fact that someone thinks the site is poorly designed, leaving me to ponder how to improve it. Which I was already doing. Which is why I asked for feedback.

Isn't Ti supposed to avoid redundancy?

 

[tcda]

Example: "The site is poorly designed."

How does that enable me to make a better design? All it does is alert me to the fact that someone thinks the site is poorly designed, leaving me to ponder how to improve it. Which I was already doing. Which is why I asked for feedback.

You might have thought it was well designed. Now your future strategies can take into accout that it's not. Surely you have to know your weaknesses if you want to play to your strengths...

 

[Economica]

You might have thought it was well designed.

You don't think it goes without saying that asking for feedback on the execution of the [site] idea includes its design?

 

[tcda]

You don't think it goes without saying that asking for feedback on the execution of the [site] idea includes its design?

One thing is the tone another is the input. I looked at the thread, and yeah the tone is kind of rude, what do you expect on INTPc it's a site known for its misanthropy, and I have no wish to defend it. However, his points in themselves didn't look unconstructive to me, he was fairly specific. Telling it was badly designed simply emphasizes the extent of the problem as he sees it. Surely that is helpful? You need to get qualitative as well as quantitative feedback, surely...?

BTW why do you think Lenin was an introvert? Just curious.

 

[Economica]

However, his points in themselves didn't look unconstructive to me, he was fairly specific.

Which points do you think were constructive, exactly?

 

[tcda]

This bit, for example:

The site in its present state can't stand on its own. It assumes that a visitor either knows about MBTI and is inclined to agree with the type assessments [which they shouldn't], or that they don't know anything about typology and will be inspired to start themselves on a course of self-directed research without having a place to begin.

Start over. Consider this.

 

[Economica]

That is a quote from his second post. Were there any parts of his first post, before I called him out on being unconstructive, that you consider to be constructive?

 

[tcda]

Each page presents a great deal of information with absolutely no depth, explanation, challenge to thought, or opening for discussion. It lacks any "hook" to make a user have any interest in coming back.

It's like an old geocities page,

.

 

[Economica]

Someone is going to have to explain to me how that was constructive.

 

[Totenkindly]

Sweet, I must have Fe in me then after all!

Or maybe you or someone else can explain to me how the criticism I'm getting in this thread is not mean, unwelcoming or just crass/rude?

(For the record, I'm not actually taking any offense, just perceiving that it's being given and therefore disagreeing with your take above.)

What is there to disagree with, Eco?
Here is what I said, which you block-copied (so just read it again and notice the word "some"):

...There are some things that happen there that might come across as mean or cold but really are being dealt out without personal malice. Even some of the stuff that might sound malicious to some people is more just a response to the post rather than the person.

By Fe standards, though, I can see why some people see it as mean, unwelcoming, or just crass/rude.

So I don't really see why I'm being dragged into your issues with INTPc and the thread you started today. Whether they are rude in that particular thread or not fits perfectly well into my post, either way.

(... apparently some people think that Rhu's comments were accurate, btw.)


I particularly like this quote, because it is actually pretty accurate:

INTPs write and direct.
edit: that's a lie. INTPs complain about movies on the internet.

I also thought that Rhu's first criticism was specific enough for you to benefit from.
I don't see why you had such nasty personal attack in response.

He then gave you further comments (along with a whimsical comment or two, which Rhu has ALWAYS done and so you can just laugh at those)... and then you took another jab at him about not really being Ti dominant.

He then proceed to just joke around, when really he was within his rights to bitch-slap you a few times. I was impressed at his restraint.

And now you leave me actually agreeing with Hustler:

Please change thread title to: CelebrityTypes.com: Feedback not welcome.

Yeah. Thanks. You know how much I *loathe* having to agree with Hustler... you owe me!

So in the end... I honestly think the thread contained some rudeness in it... but not the people you're blaming.

 

[A Schnitzel]

In Rhu's first post he said: "Each page presents a great deal of information with absolutely no depth, explanation, challenge to thought, or opening for discussion. It lacks any "hook" to make a user have any interest in coming back."

He pointed out deficiencies in the site as he saw them. That response had more critical thought than all of the responses to your thread on TypC and it was a good starting point. From there you could have asked him for a recommendation on what he thought would be a good way to have an opening for discussion on your site.

I don't see why you'd think he was insecure or angry. The only direct insults as I saw them were from certain people in your TypC thread.

 

[Economica]

I'm off to bed in a minute, but Jennifer, am I to understand that you do in fact think some genuinely mean/unwelcoming/crass/rude comments are (still) made on INTPc (whereas some other comments are merely falsely perceived as such)? In that case I did indeed misread you. And, rereading the post, I think I still am. That's it; I'm off to bed!

(No dragging into drama of either you or me intended by the way. All I wanted this evening was constructive feedback on the site. )

Edit: Just saw Jennifer's edit and A Schnitzel's post. Is it a Ti/Te thing that you do and I don't see the identification of deficiencies unaccompanied by suggestions for improvement as constructive...?

/bed

 

[Totenkindly]

I'm off to bed in a minute, but Jennifer, am I to understand that you do in fact think some genuinely mean/unwelcoming/crass/rude comments are (still) made on INTPc (whereas some other comments are merely falsely perceived as such)?

That is what I originally said.

I guess you did misread me.

(No dragging into drama of either you or me intended by the way. All I wanted this evening was constructive feedback on the site. )

Sorry it went so poorly, I guess you have been working awhile on it.

 

[Economica]

I guess you have been working awhile on it.

The typings, yes, the site, no. We're practicing launch early and iterate, cf. the INTP startup guru Paul Graham (see point 8):

Don't worry what people will say. If your first version is so impressive that trolls don't make fun of it, you waited too long to launch.

Glad to hear we're all in agreement that INTPc can be [edit: can be. not 'is'.] a genuinely mean/unwelcoming place.

/bedbedbed!

 

[Totenkindly]

Glad to hear we're all in agreement that INTPc can be a genuinely mean/unwelcoming place.

You're difficult to talk to because you drop nuance.

Your opinion of INTPc seems entirely negative and focuses on it being mean, and that does not describe my full opinion, so I'd ask you please not to speak for me, okay? I'm NOT in agreement with your attitude, and when you phrase things like this, I feel misconstrued.

You also have no reason to be speaking for me.
Speak for yourself, and let me speak for myself.

Thanks.

 

[A Schnitzel]

Edit: Just saw Jennifer's edit and A Schnitzel's post. Is it a Ti/Te thing that you do and I don't see the identification of deficiencies unaccompanied by suggestions for improvement as constructive...?

For an INTP someone applying quality thought to your work is a compliment in itself. If I put effort into something I want someone to acknowledge it and might be more offended if they were to hold back their opinion. If someone's criticism provokes thought it is one of the most valuable things. Sugar coating is usually a waste. Ideas for the future can usually be easily deduced from quality criticism.

 

[The_Liquid_Laser]

Heh, one common criticism of INTP's is that they often say things which are true but are not helpful. (I'll let the INTP's decide if that criticism is constructive or not.)

Here is some actual constructive criticism for Economica: stop asking us for our opinion. If I understand correctly the site is supposed to be for people who are not familiar with MBTI. That means that the people on TypeC and INTPc are completely different from the people you are trying to attract. Any feedback we give about the site will be bad for that very reason. Your best feedback will be from people who don't know a thing about MBTI.

 

[avolkiteshvara]

For an INTP someone applying quality thought to your work is a compliment in itself. If I put effort into something I want someone to acknowledge it and might be more offended if they were to hold back their opinion. If someone's criticism provokes thought it is one of the most valuable things. Sugar coating is usually a waste. Ideas for the future can usually be easily deduced from quality criticism.

True dat.

The way I show respect to someone is by giving honest critical thought, even if it is negative.

 

[Ethereal]

Economica, I don't really mean to be antagonistic here, but are you sure you're inTj, because you seem to be engaging in quite a bit of Fe for a rational. Regardless, if it's feedback and constructive criticism you want...

The site needs elaboration. Even if it is a beta, it's still not enough. People who know MBTI will disagree with many of the type assessments, people who are researching will be disappointed with lack of explanations, and passerby's who stumble on it will simply stumble away from it.

Perhaps, instead of separating pages into male, female, philosophers, insert male, female, and philosopher sections into types or temperament pages. That way, adding new people would be more streamlined, because the current system is not at all working out. Furthermore, explain how you came to conclusions on types, because it seems most people disagree about much of your typing. The structure to the main Keirsey website may be a good example of where to start.

This is also the reason why INTPc gave you a more negative response than you may have hoped for. INTPs live off of reasoning, the most so of all the rationals, and the little reasoning you offer in the form of quotes is hardly sufficient for true backing. Regardless of the medium, to ask an INTP's opinions on a matter in a way that does not meet their basic requirements will never yield a positive result.