Pretentious Fi

[teslashock]

^ Fi is usually pretty chill [when accompanied by Se].

Yeah, being an SFP definitely helps with the chill factor. But I don't want to completely shoot the NFPs down when they claim to have chill Fi, especially when they can back that claim up by some good old enneagram stuff.

 

[Jaguar]

^ Will never learn.

 

[Thalassa]

But, like, what's so great about having chill Fi?

I'm just saying, you know.

It appears you're expressing a personal preference for people who are not intense.

 

[simulatedworld]

But, like, what's so great about having chill Fi?

I'm just saying, you know.

It appears you're expressing a personal preference for people who are not intense.

No, just for people who aren't obnoxiously melodramatic about nothing.

 

[Thalassa]

No, just for people who aren't obnoxiously melodramatic about nothing.

I know, I know. ENTPs long to be the only obnoxious people in the room.

 

[teslashock]

But, like, what's so great about having chill Fi?

I'm just saying, you know.

It appears you're expressing a personal preference for people who are not intense.

Obviously it's a personal preference thing. I prefer Fi to not be pretentious, intrusive, and otherwise obnoxious, and being "chill" helps with that. Having flexibility in any use of any functions is good actually.

 

[onemoretime]

I know, I know. ENTPs long to be the only obnoxious people in the room.

Just remember - Ti users tend to experience just as visceral a response to willful illogic as Fi users do to callous indifference. Perhaps this is why both may not get along at all times.

 

[simulatedworld]

I know, I know. ENTPs long to be the only obnoxious people in the room.

Damn straight.

 

[Jaguar]

I know, I know. ENTPs long to be the only obnoxious people in the room.

Especially those with fangs.

 

[Amargith]

Thank you Amargith, Fidelia, and proteanmix for your discussion of Fe/Fi. It's a nice step away from the hostile foot upon which the thread initially took off.



This is something that I find interesting: the fact that most other types I know will willingly admit that their functions have obvious pitfalls, while Fi users have a really hard time admitting that Fi can cause problems. As an ENTP, I realize that my Ne/Ti can be really abrasive and harmful to those around me at times (regardless of whether that's my intent or not), and I understand that Ne/Ti really need a good splash of Fe to help me get along with people better.

I see how Ti can just be too analytical to the point that nothing gets done and that it never really comes up with any answers and that Ne is just so out there that it doesn't know how to prioritize and has a hard time telling the difference between a good idea and a bad one. It's interesting to me that strong Fi users seem so unwilling to accept the fact that Fi has obvious pitfalls as well. Why can't you guys just agree that all functions, *including Fi*, can have negative consequences when used in copious amounts and without a balance from some other function(s)?

Personally, I think that has to do with the fact that Fi is also never appreciated. Or so it seems. All people do is whine about it. Especially ENTPs, no offense. So at some point you go 'yeah yeah, we get it, you don't however, clearly!' and become defensive.

As said before, maybe I'm biased, but Fi seems to be one of the least appreciated functions around. It's also not practical, doesn't deserve merit by being particularly useful to others, and when it is actually useful, it doesn't get acknowledged or it gets treated as nice 'luxury' to have (thinking art, music, hugging, fantasy books, lifting someone elses spirit, etc). It doesn't feel like it provides for the necessities in life, it doesn't help you in the real world, or so it seems, therefore it's not valued. On the contrary, it gets more press for being a burden and in the way of 'valuable' things than anything else. I get it, Fi is hard to pinpoint, to quantify, to put to use, and to even fully appreciate becoz it's so ellusive and highly individual, and therefore hard to grasp for those not employing it as much. It's not our fault that you have trouble seeing its merit though. And although some of the comments of how you perceive Fi definitely apply to immature Fi, some are so far off becoz of lack of understanding, it just makes you wanna roll your eyes, coz you know that explaining it wouldn't matter as you cannot prove your stance to them anyway. It's the proverbial dog who's seen a rainbow and who tries to convince other dogs it exists-thing all over again. Can you honestly blame us for our reaction?

 

[PeaceBaby]

Just remember - Ti users tend to experience just as visceral a response to willful illogic as Fi users do to callous indifference. Perhaps this is why both may not get along at all times.

Indeed.

Personally, I think that has to do with the fact that Fi is also never appreciated. Or so it seems. ...... It's not our fault that you have trouble seeing its merit though. And although some of the comments of how you perceive Fi definitely apply to immature Fi, some are so far off becoz of lack of understanding, it just makes you wanna roll your eyes, coz you know that explaining it wouldn't matter as you cannot prove your stance to them anyway.

Excellent points here Amargith (as elsewhere in thread).

Fi grows tired of being relegated to the back seat of priority or patronized as somehow less relevant, logical or important than the other functions. Us Fi users, we have to learn that it is OK for us to be as we are. I can think back to my childhood, and could share many examples where my feelings were minimized or ridiculed by those closest to me, but that is no matter to this thread. But no doubt this is partly why I do keep them to myself. To me they are like precious pearls, and I have no interest anymore in "casting them before swine".

If anything, it is non Fi dominants who I see yielding their emotions like clumsy clubs, whacking people with their words and actions like cave dwellers and not possessing an ability to see the wounds they have thus created.

Then an Fi dominant comes in and tries to make the hurt all better. Give creds to the Fi users sister! We care when no one else notices or gives a hoot.

*(no offense to cave dwellers intended)

 

[sculpting]

But, like, what's so great about having chill Fi?

I'm just saying, you know.

It appears you're expressing a personal preference for people who are not intense.

No, just for people who aren't obnoxiously melodramatic about nothing.

Obviously it's a personal preference thing. I prefer Fi to not be pretentious, intrusive, and otherwise obnoxious, and being "chill" helps with that. Having flexibility in any use of any functions is good actually.

Biology is getting the best of all of you.

IRL, when my tert Fe users feel stressed they become very calm-they admit this. Like the eye of a storm. n=6 (increases in endorphins under stress? ie soothing Fe?)

IRL when my enfps become stressed we emote externally. This can be very subtle displays, but given how well the EXTPs pick up on visual cues, it may be very apparent to them. n=4 (increases in epinephrine under stress? ie fight or flight Te?)

When the EXTPs will pick up on even very subtle EXFP Fi/Te externalization. they become more stressed, annoyed and will vacate the situation. They will cite "drama" or "negativity" or "emo". I think it may pull them out of that calm focused spot-they say they feel more anxiety and feel annoyed.

I am not bashing either group-this is very much innate biology fucking you all over and getting in the way of productivity. Given you need both to formulate good plans, proactive change has to occur on both ends. (Also reason 48,569 that an EXFP and EXTP should not be in a relationship)

The best ENFPs I have seen in executive roles have a strong Te vibe-they also can cancel out the underlying Fi emotive tones when they speak. They sound Te. Also-when interacting with an EXTP in stress, internally relax, drop the volume of your voice, and try and limit the display of emotion on your face and hand gestures. Practice internal focus and restraint. Be very aware you can induce stress in them.

EXTPs-recognize the trick biology is playing on you. You guys can figure it out from there.

 

[onemoretime]

Fi grows tired of being relegated to the back seat of priority or patronized as somehow less relevant, logical or important than the other functions. Us Fi users, we have to learn that it is OK for us to be as we are. I can think back to my childhood, and could share many examples where my feelings were minimized or ridiculed by those closest to me, but that is no matter to this thread. But no doubt this is partly why I do keep them to myself. To me they are like precious pearls, and I have no interest anymore in "casting them before swine".

If anything, it is non Fi dominants who I see yielding their emotions like clumsy clubs, whacking people with their words and actions like cave dwellers and not possessing an ability to see the wounds they have thus created.

Then an Fi dominant comes in and tries to make the hurt all better. Give creds to the Fi users sister! We care when no one else notices or gives a hoot.

*(no offense to cave dwellers intended)

And once again, it's all about you. This is what we're getting at.

 

[Amargith]

Are you looking to actually learn how to understand and deal with Fi-users, or are you looking to teach them manners as you consider they don't have any? Coz seriously, if the first, this kinda shit aint helping, and you're missing the point. If the second, who the f** do you think you are?

 

[onemoretime]

Are you looking to actually learn how to understand and deal with Fi-users, or are you looking to teach them manners as you consider they don't have any? Coz seriously, if the first, this kinda shit aint helping, and you're missing the point. If the second, who the f** do you think you are?

What I'm looking for is a sense of recognizance "oh, wow, never saw it that way before, and now that I do, yeah, that's sorta fucked up". That's pretty much it.

 

[Amargith]

What I'm looking for is a sense of recognizance "oh, wow, never saw it that way before, and now that I do, yeah, that's sorta fucked up". That's pretty much it.

Funny..I pretty much did that a couple of pages back, and I'm still waiting for the same thing from you guys. As I said, it's pointless to explain this to people over and over again. The explanation is never valid enough. It's never good enough. It's never up to your critical standards. I don't see why I should bother to live up to them either. Especially since you won't even entertain the idea that *maybe* we see something you don't. Maybe our point of view has some merit. And don't tell me I haven't entertained yours. I have done nothing but that, throughout this thread. It's about time that you show Fi-users the same courtesy.

One last attempt: This topic is aobut Fi-users. We relate to things personally. Of course it's going to come off like it's all about us. Coz it *is* all about us, in this thread. You made it so..specifically asked for it, even.

I'm done explaining.

 

[onemoretime]

Funny..I pretty much did that a couple of pages back, and I'm still waiting for the same thing from you guys. As I said, it's pointless to explain this to people over and over again. The explanation is never valid enough. It's never good enough. It's never up to your critical standards. I don't see why I should bother to live up to them either.

Yes, and I noticed several mentions of it. "Yeah, Amargith really gets it" "I've learned a lot from my conversations with her". So on and so forth. I have, too. Surely enough, your posts have enlightened many of us on how it works, but there's still a fundamental disconnect. The image that is given off is "I am who I am, and not apologizing for it", even when there are people who are hurt by that, and the first person really should apologize to the other person. When others try to call a person out on that, we're just being "oppressive" or our "standards are too high", etc.

One last attempt: This topic is aobut Fi-users. We relate to things personally. Of course it's going to come off like it's all about us. Coz it *is* all about us, in this thread. You made it so..specifically asked for it, even.

I'm done explaining.

Is it about Fi-users, or is it about the effect Fi-users have on other people?

I hope not. We've just got to keep chipping away at the rough edges to get a clearer picture of what's going on and what needs to be done.

 

[Fidelia]

Personally, I think that has to do with the fact that Fi is also never appreciated. Or so it seems. All people do is whine about it. Especially ENTPs, no offense. So at some point you go 'yeah yeah, we get it, you don't however, clearly!' and become defensive.

As said before, maybe I'm biased, but Fi seems to be one of the least appreciated functions around. It's also not practical, doesn't deserve merit by being particularly useful to others, and when it is actually useful, it doesn't get acknowledged or it gets treated as nice 'luxury' to have (thinking art, music, hugging, fantasy books, lifting someone elses spirit, etc). It doesn't feel like it provides for the necessities in life, it doesn't help you in the real world, or so it seems, therefore it's not valued. On the contrary, it gets more press for being a burden and in the way of 'valuable' things than anything else. I get it, Fi is hard to pinpoint, to quantify, to put to use, and to even fully appreciate becoz it's so ellusive and highly individual, and therefore hard to grasp for those not employing it as much. It's not our fault that you have trouble seeing its merit though. And although some of the comments of how you perceive Fi definitely apply to immature Fi, some are so far off becoz of lack of understanding, it just makes you wanna roll your eyes, coz you know that explaining it wouldn't matter as you cannot prove your stance to them anyway. It's the proverbial dog who's seen a rainbow and who tries to convince other dogs it exists-thing all over again. Can you honestly blame us for our reaction?

All of the functions require their complimentary function to truly be useful. People appear to do much better in groups than they do on their own, or in a little isolated group. I think in part, this is because the other functions that each individual doesn't have access to are very necessary to complete their perspective and fill in their blind spots. The very friction experienced by interacting with those who have unfamiliar functions to our own actual helps us experience life much differently and in a more balanced way. As time has gone on and I've understood the functions better, I have started seeing that I need to actually seek out people who have opposite functions from me to access their areas of expertise. Obviously, no function really operates alone. We only refer to them separately in discussion so that we can better understand them. However, I think that depending on what Fi is combined with and where it comes in the order of use, it will look and taste remarkably differently. This is part of the reason it is really difficult to even pinpoint what Fi is and when it is used.

Whether we understand everyone's perspective or not, I don't think it should allow for discounting certain functions. It just means that we need to do more investigating because chances are, we are delving into one of our own weak spots and do not have all the information yet that we need to productively use or appreciate that function. It's not that there is no usefulness out there. We just don't understand it fully enough to see it yet.

 

[Amargith]

If you go back, you'll see that I've made several posts in which I admit that Fi can have it's negative effects as can any function, and that I do recognize the damage inflicted. You'll also see it states that this usually happens when we're struggling with ourselves. Several people have contributed that Fi usually holds the value of not wanting to hurt others at all. So you can safely assume that when it happens, it's not meant that way, at all and we do end up feeling really badly about that. If that isn't what you're looking for, then I cannot help you.

If you want a written appology from the bottom of my heart for who I am, and admit to you how wrong it is to be me, then sorry, look elsewhere. I'm tired of having to appologize for who I am and how much I could potentially hurt others. Especially when getting it from ENTPs, that's just ironic.

 

[PeaceBaby]

And once again, it's all about you. This is what we're getting at.

*sigh*

:rolli:

I personalize my post because it has been requested of me to do so. What are you trying to draw out or add to this thread by posting this comment? Explain please. And perhaps you might want to review my other posts to provide a context for you.

Naturally, stuff about "me" is subjective, but it was my hope to illuminate the topic further in sharing this way.

FYI - my Fi is all for me - none for you, and I recognize where it is unwelcome. I don't walk around presuming it is understood or cared about.