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Ni versus Ne: is one more optimistic / pessimistic?

For curiosity's sake:

  • INFJ - Ni is more pessimistic

    Votes: 4 7.4%
  • INFJ - Ni is more optimistic

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • ENFP - Ne is more pessimistic

    Votes: 1 1.9%
  • ENFP - Ne is more optimistic

    Votes: 7 13.0%
  • INTJ - Ni is more pessimistic

    Votes: 3 5.6%
  • INTJ - Ni is more optimistic

    Votes: 2 3.7%
  • ENTP - Ne is more pessimistic

    Votes: 1 1.9%
  • ENTP - Ne is more optimistic

    Votes: 2 3.7%
  • Ni is more pessimistic

    Votes: 7 13.0%
  • Ne is more pessimistic

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • They are equal

    Votes: 6 11.1%
  • This poll is trash

    Votes: 21 38.9%

  • Total voters
    54

The_Liquid_Laser

Glowy Goopy Goodness
Joined
Jul 11, 2007
Messages
3,376
MBTI Type
ENTP
From my experience with other dom-Ns, it seems as if Ni is constantly scanning for any possible tiny thing that could go wrong, while Ne is scanning for any tiny chance that the impossible could be made possible. Ni doesn't want to be unpleasantly surprised and Ne doesn't want to miss any opportunity. In this aspect Ni = pessimist and Ne = optimist. But of course they are both ways of percieving reality in the ways that gives them the most pleasure and the least fear.
And I think that the Aux-function will often counter the inherent dominant optimism or pessimism for all four types. Te will achive visible results for INTJs, Fe will achive social connectivity for INFJs, Fi will beat up ENFPs for not meeting their own ideals and Ti will beat up ENTPs for never being thorough enough. Or something like that. Thus, all four types have each their enthusiastic and depressive potentials, each their temperance of optimistic or pessimistic tendencies.
I guess.

This is correct. :yes:

Ne is optimistic and Ni is pessimistic as far as functions go. This is because the extraverted functions are optimistic and the introverted functions are pessimistic. Being an ENTP doesn't make me a total optimist, but my pessimism comes from Ti and not Ne. Likewise an INTJ is going to get their optimism from Te rather than Ni.
 

Economica

Dhampyr
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
2,054
MBTI Type
INTJ
Likewise an INTJ is going to get their optimism from Te rather than Ni.

Overall I think I agree with Heart&Brain :)thinking:), but I want to note that Ni can also envision a future that is better than the present, thus providing hope (and putting the auxiliary function to work on realizing that future).

That came in very handy when I was a :emot-emo: teenager. :rolleyes:
 

The_Liquid_Laser

Glowy Goopy Goodness
Joined
Jul 11, 2007
Messages
3,376
MBTI Type
ENTP
Overall I think I agree with Heart&Brain :)thinking:), but I want to note that Ni can also envision a future that is better than the present, thus providing hope (and putting the auxiliary function to work on realizing that future).

That came in very handy when I was a :emot-emo: teenager. :rolleyes:

I'd have to wonder if the optimism really comes from envisioning a positive future (Ni) or in believing that you can make this future happen (Te). Also how much of this vision involves avoiding negative pitfalls that can occur along the way?
 

SolitaryWalker

Tenured roisterer
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
3,504
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
I'd have to wonder if the optimism really comes from envisioning a positive future (Ni) or in believing that you can make this future happen (Te). Also how much of this vision involves avoiding negative pitfalls that can occur along the way?

I don't think that the definition of either function includes engaging in the behaviors you cited.

This is correct. :yes:

Ne is optimistic and Ni is pessimistic as far as functions go. This is because the extraverted functions are optimistic and the introverted functions are pessimistic. Being an ENTP doesn't make me a total optimist, but my pessimism comes from Ti and not Ne. Likewise an INTJ is going to get their optimism from Te rather than Ni.


I don't think any function is optimistic or pessimistic by definition. A function is merely a tendency to be energized in a certain manner. So, if you are an intuitive, you are more easily energized by using your mind more than your senses, if you are an extrovert you are more easily energized by acting rather than remaining passive.

Whether a person of a certain type is more optimistic than a person of another type is a context specific question. A person who is optimistic by definition tends to think that his future will be well. A person who is pessimistic by definition tends to think that the future won't be well. Whether one has a habit of thinking the future will or won't be well has more to do with extra-typological factors rather than typological factors. These factors are psychological in nature. For example, what was his or her upbringing like? Were most of his expectations in life fulfilled? Altogether, were his life experiences such that he or she has a reason to hope that something good will happen in the future?

At last, I do think that there is some merit to this debate regarding whether or not a certain function is more optimistic than another function. After all, functions are our tendencies to think in a certain manner. In the Western culture, it is much easier to create a scenario where good things happen for you if you are outgoing, a conformist and a people person. Our culture is decidedly unintellectual, person focused and promotes interaction rather than passive activity.

Your conclusion is correct, but not for the reasons that you state. Ni people tend to be more pessimistic than Ne people because the Western culture is less accommodating to them than it is for Ne people. I don't think that there is anything inherent within the concept of Ni or introversion in general that predisposes a person to be negative other than this: since an Introvert is much more comfortable with contemplation than action, action seems to him something that goes against his very nature. Hence, he may have a mildly negative attitude towards action because of his nature. However, this could quite easily be overcome. The Introvert is never a complete introvert, or his dispositions are not such that he gains positive energy only by contemplation and never by action, as Extroverted tendencies are part of the psychological economy of every introvert. Hence, any Introvert can avoid becoming intensely hostile to the world by simply putting some basic limitations on how much time and effort he spends on interacting with the world. The extroverted components of his psychological economy will demand some interaction and therefore a certain dose of interaction will enable him to engage in activity and to gain positive energy at the same time.

A person who has a dominant Ni function and behaves in the manner that I described should not be focusing much more on negative possibilities rather than the positive.

As a general note, I suggest that when we are attempting to understand the causes of a person's actions or simply put, understand how people are, we should step away from typological explanations and embrace the psychological ones. Instead of saying that somebody is a certain way because they are of a certain type, we should regard the circumstances of that person as the true cause of their nature.
 

Economica

Dhampyr
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
2,054
MBTI Type
INTJ
I'd have to wonder if the optimism really comes from envisioning a positive future (Ni) or in believing that you can make this future happen (Te). Also how much of this vision involves avoiding negative pitfalls that can occur along the way?

Believing one can make a positive future happen starts with the vision of the future, yes? Te feels entirely subordinate in this regard. Ni says make it happen; Te complies. It is only recently that I've even begun allowing Te to reply with all due respect, are you taking into account (potential pitfall x)?

SW is probably right that other psychological factors play at least as much into this as type though. Personally I've enjoyed a lot of reinforcement.

---

Hey, SW, I finished one of your posts! :yes: So which one of us is improving? :D

---

I'm off to bed! (No, not because of that post. ;))
 

SolitaryWalker

Tenured roisterer
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
3,504
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
SW is probably right that other psychological factors play at least as much into this as type though. Personally I've enjoyed a lot of reinforcement.


Although you have made a true statement, I would very much like to argue that psychological factors play a significantly greater role than the typological in the regard of shaping a person into an optimist or a pessimist. All typological factors account for is the habits of thought that a person has. By definition, these habits have little to do with optimism or pessimism.
 

Tamske

Writing...
Joined
Oct 22, 2009
Messages
1,764
MBTI Type
ENTP
What's the question actually? Compare Ne with Ni? How can we do that?
* searching for Ni function *

Or is the question: is Ne more optimistic than pessimistic?
In that case, I can answer yes. I'm a total optimist. I can't imagine a single pessimistic function inside my mind.
 

nightning

ish red no longer *sad*
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
3,741
MBTI Type
INfj
+1 for SW's last comment. :)

Pointless to attribute optimism and pessimism to cognitive functions. They're processes, not attitudes.
 

The_Liquid_Laser

Glowy Goopy Goodness
Joined
Jul 11, 2007
Messages
3,376
MBTI Type
ENTP
Believing one can make a positive future happen starts with the vision of the future, yes? Te feels entirely subordinate in this regard. Ni says make it happen; Te complies. It is only recently that I've even begun allowing Te to reply with all due respect, are you taking into account (potential pitfall x)?

This might just be a subtle distinction I'm making. From personal experience I rarely imagine (N) possible pitfalls. Rather if I think of a potential pitfall it is because I carefully reasoned (T) through the possible outcomes. My Ne almost always imagines something positive. I rely on Ti for considering if something negative might happen.

This is why I'm saying the functions are optimistic or pessimistic rather than the people using them. Ne is oriented toward imagining positive outcomes making it optimistic. Ni on the other hand tends to imagine negative scenarios, so that it can make plans to avoid them. It imagines negative things making it pessimistic.

So an INTJ can optimistically work toward a goal (Te), but in doing so she will be sure to avoid all of the possible pitfalls she imagines along the way (Ni).



...
Your conclusion is correct, but not for the reasons that you state. Ni people tend to be more pessimistic than Ne people because the Western culture is less accommodating to them than it is for Ne people. I don't think that there is anything inherent within the concept of Ni or introversion in general that predisposes a person to be negative other than this: since an Introvert is much more comfortable with contemplation than action, action seems to him something that goes against his very nature. Hence, he may have a mildly negative attitude towards action because of his nature.
...

I've largely responded to your post by answering Economica, but let me add this. A person who acts does so because they believe their action will yield a positive result. When a person does not act it is because the person does not believe acting will yield a positive result. Therefore the person who acts is being optimistic, while the person who does not act is being pessimistic.

Furthermore action requires using an outwardly oriented function, i.e. an extraverted function. Therefore extraverted functions are inherently optimistic.
 

Evo

Unapologetic being
Joined
Jul 1, 2011
Messages
3,160
MBTI Type
XNTJ
Enneagram
1w9
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
Ne has come off as more optimistic ime
 

Masokissed

Spoiled Brat 🍒
Joined
Apr 22, 2015
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941
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ESFP
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7w6
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
Ne is crazier (outside).
 

ChocolateMoose123

New member
Joined
Oct 4, 2008
Messages
5,278
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
lol re the borg.

I don't know that it's easy to contrast Ni/Ne in this sense, as Ne is externally 'seen'/noted, whereas you can't really see Ni in action. You just see the results of what Ni has concluded, or the Ni-user is unable to communicate his ideas well given the nature of the Ni, so the Ni-user appears to be cryptic.

To me, Ne seems optimistic, but I think it is solely due to it being extroverted in nature - i.e. brainstorming, rattling one idea after the next. There's movement there, and movement/fluidity can be tied to optimism. So it's not that Ne is necessarily optimistic, it's the extroverted nature of it that makes it appear to be moreso. Ni, since you can't see it....I mean, I don't know if I'd label it optimistic or pessimistic. Depends on the subject matter I suppose.

Exactly. I don't think of Ni as either optimistic nor pessimistic. In fact, I think of it as really neutral. That may be because of how it is in my stacking but it is dispassionate to me.
 

Forever

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Wtf neither.

They're cognitive functions for God's sakes.

People anthropomorphosizing things. :dry:

If you all want the stereotypical answers:
Ni: pessimistic "woe unto you that you haven't followed my awesome and comprehensive advice"
Ne: optimistic "I would bu--SQUIRREL!"

Stereotypical Ne simply doesn't have time or the focus for negativity.
 

Poki

New member
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sx/so
Exactly. I don't think of Ni as either optimistic nor pessimistic. In fact, I think of it as really neutral. That may be because of how it is in my stacking but it is dispassionate to me.

I can see Ne as both...watch an Ne dom and they will swing both negative and positive with it. I blame it on inferior Si and build up of history with said thing on whether it swings good or bad.

For example...i did something an ENFP friend didnt agree with. She went up and down negative about her husband, then i said it was me and she did a flip to positive. Its funny because it doesnt even phase her, that flip. Both are right..according to her.

I am with you...Ni just is, but i am sure it can be either or. Looking at Ni i can easily see it as positive and negative path based on experience. For example watching my dad watch tv...lol, i know...is hilarious because you can see in his face where Ni went in regard to negative or positive. He is a very facially animated TV watcher.
 

ZNP-TBA

Privileged Sh!tlord
Joined
Jun 12, 2015
Messages
3,001
MBTI Type
ENTP
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7w8
Instinctual Variant
sx
Ne is neutral. My Ne wants to see all perspectives, optimistic , pessimistic, whatever else. If I see all optimism my mind naturally wonders " is there any pessimism here?" Show me one side of a coin and I'm already thinking about what the other side looks like.

Ni is just cray cray.
 

Virtual ghost

Complex paradigm
Joined
Jun 6, 2008
Messages
19,769
The only reason why this stereotype lives is becaase many strong Ne users have very short attention span and therefore they don't think about problems until they get closer. On the other hand as Ni is stronger and stronger from person to person it allows them to see further and further into the future with clarity. What allows them to see more and more problems as they are comming towards us, what often makes them look pessimistic.
 

andresimon

Permabanned
Joined
Apr 11, 2015
Messages
249
MBTI Type
ENFP
I am also tempted to associate optimism with idealism and pessimism with realism, so feel free to drag those associations with you when you vote.

Also: courtesy of one of kalach's posts which I am now unable to find, I am tempted to start thinking of Ni as the borg

Lol... optimism with idealism and pessimism with realism. Lol.... oh my. I wonder when the world will be out of this trance.
 
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