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Alternatives to Kiersey's classifications

incubustribute

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This post is for anyone who dislikes Kiersey's way of classifying the four temperaments (NF idealist, NT rational, SP artist, SJ guardian). From talking to simulatedworld and by my own experience, I have come up with alternative temperament groupings (that quite possibly have been proposed before). If this is redundant at all or has been previously tried please point it out, but be nice - I'm a beginner :D

Instead of grouping via the iNtuitive function dichotomies (NF and NT) and via the Sensing J/P preferences (SJ and SP), I propose a different four groups:

IxxP - The Idealist
IxxJ - The Learner
ExxP - The Explorer
ExxJ - The Leader

Now, these are slightly vague as hell, but let me attempt to clarify what I mean with the groupings (if you weren't quick enough to notice - it's pretty obvious).

The IxxP, by virtue of its functions, will use some form of Ji (introverted judging) as a dominant (leading) functional role. This could be Ti or Fi.

The IxxJ, by virtue of its functions will use some form of Pi (introverted perception) as a leading role, either Si or Ni.

The ExxP will use some form of Pe (extroverted perception) as its leading role, either Ne or Se.

The ExxJ will use some form of Je (extroverted judging) as its lead role, either Te or Fe.

So what these boil down to is the attitude and function one prefers in the lead. I believe knowing the lead role is very telling of one's type and is a better classification than what we use on the forum and what Kiersey proposed. Kiersey's temperaments aren't even consistent with themselves, so we have:

NF (idealist) - indicates only that they use some form of intuition and feeling. The issue is that Ne and Ni are very different, as are Fe and Fi.
NT (rational) - again, indicates only that they use some form of intuition and thinking, but says nothing of the preferred attitude or more importantly, which role they use in the outside world. Ti is VERY different than Te, as Ni is VERY different than Ne.
SJ (guardian) - The only thing this indicates is that the person uses extroverted judging and introverted perceiving, but says nothing of which role leads and which one supports.
SP (artist) - This is the most laughable, mostly because of the "artist" title. Again, extroverted perception and introverted judging says little about one's type unless we know which one leads and which one supports.

I will admit that the last two (SP and SJ) are somewhat more reasonable than the first two because they at least specify the most telling feature that Myers and Briggs graced us with: Judging vs. Perceiving (which one is extroverted). However, the NT and NF at the very least need to be reconsidered. Perhaps NJ and NP would be more indicative.

At any rate, I think the Pi/Pe/Ji/Je classification system is superior to any of these, as it correctly identifies what attitude of judging or perception an individual prefers in their lead role (the lead role being the most telling trait of one's functional analysis).

So here's the fun part where you tell me:
1. incubustribute, thanks! This has helped me a lot!
2. incubustribute, you're an idiot! This has been done 7830458276383 times already!
3. incubustribute, I disagree! And I have a better alternative...
4. incubustribute, I love you! Have my babies!
 

Quinlan

Intriguing....
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Kiersey rhymes with Heresy, coincidence? I think not!
 

Ben Dover

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The combination of your answer with your username is slightly worrisome :newwink:

HAHAHAHA, you want it.

but seriously, i think your classifications make a lot more sense. I've really learned to not be so idealistic. lol
 

incubustribute

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HAHAHAHA, you want it.

but seriously, i think your classifications make a lot more sense. I've really learned to not be so idealistic. lol

The problem I have with the idea that NF's are the idealists is that idealism is rooted in the idea that you have beliefs (whether based on logic or morals (perhaps ethics)) that do not change and are not affected by outside empirical data or external verification (like someone approves it). This is the very definition of introverted judgment (Ji). Ti claims what simulated calls "logic in a vacuum," while Fi claims "ethics/morals in a vacuum." Now this may be getting into type bias, but judgments in a vacuum are exactly what idealism is all about. NF does not necessarily exhibit these features at all.

Glad you like it though :D
 

Jeffster

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Keirsey's temperaments make sense because they are based on observable behavior, while yours just looks like a bunch of assumptive gibberish.
 

Saslou

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As long as i can be the leader who explores .. Then sure i'll have your babies .. You'll just be holding them when i need to jump on another plane :D
 

incubustribute

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Keirsey's temperaments make sense because they are based on observable behavior, while yours just looks like a bunch of assumptive gibberish.

Too much theory, eh? That's cool! I dig it...thanks for your input. :)

As long as i can be the leader who explores .. Then sure i'll have your babies .. You'll just be holding them when i need to jump on another plane :D

saslou, let's just hire a sitter. Si tells me it's safer than taking your children skydiving :newwink:
 

VagrantFarce

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I'm not sure there's going to be one set of temperaments that is better than any other, whether you choose to frame it in terms of perception, judgement or whatever. They're just arbitrary groupings designed to find commonalities, which can be found in all sorts of lights.

Not to be dismissive of what you're trying to do, of course. :) I'll just suggest my own names and be on my way:

IxxP - The Harmonist
IxxJ - The Unyielding
 

Edgar

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This post is for anyone who dislikes Kiersey's way of classifying the four temperaments (NF idealist, NT rational, SP artist, SJ guardian). From talking to simulatedworld and by my own experience, I have come up with alternative temperament groupings (that quite possibly have been proposed before). If this is redundant at all or has been previously tried please point it out, but be nice - I'm a beginner :D

Instead of grouping via the iNtuitive function dichotomies (NF and NT) and via the Sensing J/P preferences (SJ and SP), I propose a different four groups:

IxxP - The Idealist
IxxJ - The Learner
ExxP - The Explorer
ExxJ - The Leader

Let's see.. ISTP as The Idealist... ESFJ as The Leader...

The crack pipe, sir. Lay it on the ground and slowly back away.
 

incubustribute

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I'm not sure there's going to be one set of temperaments that is better than any other, whether you choose to frame it in terms of perception, judgement or whatever. They're just arbitrary groupings designed to find commonalities, which can be found in all sorts of lights.

Not to be dismissive of what you're trying to do, of course. :) I'll just suggest my own names and be on my way:

IxxP - The Harmonist
IxxJ - The Unyielding

I like those! Seeking harmony is the goal of idealism after all, and "unyielding" is a valid way to look at the IxxJ temperament. The only thing I would bring up is that unyielding sounds more ExxJ to me. What I was going for with IxxJ is leading Pi, which is concerned with taking in and evaluating information; hence, "learning." I guess I was trying to take a more positive approach, but it may have been too vague, idk.
Thanks for the suggestions :)
 

Saslou

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saslou, let's just hire a sitter. Si tells me it's safer than taking your children skydiving :newwink:

Lets just practice and not bother having the kids at all ..

Let's see.. ISTP as The Idealist... ESFJ as The Leader...

The crack pipe, sir. Lay it on the ground and slowly back away.

Ehhh .. Please do not question one's leadership abilities .. I fucking rock .. I keep everyone happy .. Assess and utilize everyones skills and create a happy environment .. Then party with free alcohol i brought on the company's credit card :devil:
 

Edgar

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Ehhh .. Please do not question one's leadership abilities .. I fucking rock .. I keep everyone happy .. Assess and utilize everyones skills and create a happy environment .. Then party with free alcohol i brought on the company's credit card :devil:

ESFJs make great hosts, that's true.
But I am yet to see an ESFJ who does not waver when rank is pulled on them.
 

Saslou

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ESFJs make great hosts, that's true.
But I am yet to see an ESFJ who does not waver when rank is pulled on them.

Please .. Oh i am enjoying this .. Continue insulting me .. I can't host for shit .. There's the kitchen, help yourself ... The workplace is different though ..

Someone wants to pull rank on me .. *Sharpens Axe in anticipation*

Lol ..
 

incubustribute

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Let's see.. ISTP as The Idealist... ESFJ as The Leader...

The crack pipe, sir. Lay it on the ground and slowly back away.

I see the issue. Is your problem with the names or is the whole theory garbage? I think perhaps a better name for ExxJ is in order. The other problem seems to be that Ti being an "idealistic" function is not apparently a popular view. I'm sticking to my guns on this one, though. While I don't know many ISTP's personally, I do believe that Ji seems very conducive of idealistic judgments.

Yes, because those INTPs are so very idealistic;)

I don't know about you, but the INTP's I know kind of are...at least on the basis of logic.
 

incubustribute

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Again...I'm operating on the principle that internal (introverted) decisions and value systems are inherently idealistic in nature because of their lack of a need for external validation. You can argue with Ti all day long about why its theory doesn't work in real life, but if it's convinced itself the theory is true, it won't change its mind :) Likewise, you can argue with Fi all day long about why its moral/ethical values are impractical, but it doesn't matter. If the decision is made, your external value system won't change the way Ji feels/thinks about anything.
 
Last edited:

Edgar

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I see the issue. Is your problem with the names or is the whole theory garbage? I think perhaps a better name for ExxJ is in order. The other problem seems to be that Ti being an "idealistic" function is not apparently a popular view. I'm sticking to my guns on this one, though. While I don't know many ISTP's personally, I do believe that Ji seems very conducive of idealistic judgments.

Yeah, I have a problem with more than just names. To put INTJs and ISFJs in one category, and ISTPs and INFPs in another is totally bunk. That's the equavalent of claiming that tigers and zebras are the same species because they both have stripes.

Anyway, the only ideals or rules that ISTP guys tend to go by is "don't call me a faggot"
 
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