About Intuition

[jenocyde]

Amazing, Brainheart. I can't even fathom what you've described... turning off thoughts because they don't serve a purpose? That's seriously alien to me - I'm not kidding.

When you see that bird in the tree, what part of it makes you stoked? What are you thinking about? I'm just curious as to how it compares to my train of thought...

 

[Thalassa]

Amazing, Brainheart. I can't even fathom what you've described... turning off thoughts because they don't serve a purpose? That's seriously alien to me - I'm not kidding.

It reminds me of my grandfather's wife saying that I thought about things that "don't matter."

S/N prejudice begins at home, boys and girls, and extends both ways.

 

[jenocyde]

It reminds me of my grandfather's wife saying that I thought about things that "don't matter."

S/N prejudice begins at home, boys and girls, and extends both ways.

Are you saying that I am somehow prejudiced because I am trying to understand someone else's view?

 

[Thalassa]

Are you saying that I am somehow prejudiced because I am trying to understand someone else's view?

No, it's not about YOU. There are comments throughout the entire thread, if you care to read, about Ns being upppity or prejudiced against Ss. I was referencing the fact that Brainheart turns off thoughts that "don't serve a purpose" and it reminded me of a certain person who I hope burns in hell.

 

[Charmed Justice]

Hmmm, that's an interesting question. Maybe because Ne is a perceiving function that is not concerned with the concrete world and our aux function is internal, so the top 2 functions can make our types appear to be quite introverted. Which is why Ruthie could be having a problem defining the difference between that and Si.

I can see that.

My best guess is that we Ne doms all intuit in the same way. We just gather and gather, but Fi filters out the noise by checking each piece of data by how it makes them feel. Most times it's used to construct, maintain, challenge and reassess emotional bonds. So of course, the descriptions used would seem more dreamy or esoteric in nature. So Ne+Fi could look like Ni because that forest description had a highly personal tone and evoked a strong feeling. The Ti filter is more concerned with consistency and validity, rather than connection. So the end result of Ne+Ti could look like Si in theory (but not in the specific forest description provided).

Ok, that makes sense to me as well.

But me personally? The last time I walked into a forest, the trees barely registered at all. I immediately imagined myself in a scenario where I was a survivor of a wreck and had to fend for myself. I then walked around imagining myself in scenarios where I had to kill a bear with my bare hands and build shelter in a tree. I seriously started mentally devising small game traps out of the thicket (and I'm a vegetarian). Then curiosity got the best of me and I actually tried to see if I could devise a trap, just to see if my calculations were correct - which they were. Then I snapped back into reality and realized that I was a mere mile away from home before but now I was lost and didn't pay attention to the turns I took off the trail, and it was pitch black outside now. I started to panic realizing that I just created my own scenario. I took a few moments to marvel at how meta that was. Then I tried to get out of it for real by trying to track the stars like they did in that book I read when I was a kid (who the hell knows which one - The Little Prince? The Boy Scouts handbook I stole from my brother?...) I didn't even notice the fact that I hadn't even gone 15 yards in and had just been walking around in a pathetic, panicky circle for hours in a daydreamy daze - and hadn't noticed the many clearly marked signs designating the way back to the trail. Yeah, Ne+Ti, ftw?

Ha, that's exciting! Sounds familiar.

I do pay close attention to sights, sounds, and smells though, very much so. I get lost in the big picture, and the tiniest of detail. I'm that person that goes around straightening pictures on a wall that are just the slightest bit off. At the same time, I "lose" the pencil behind my own ear, lock the keys in the car(frequently), and occasionally realize I've got on two different socks.

Usually on a hike I'll be primarily getting stoked on noticing a bird singing up in a tree or how the bark feels on my hand or how my breathing gets into this rhythm or I'll make sure not to step on a spider who's crossing the path.

I can strongly relate to this. These types of experiences feel almost spiritual to me though.

 

[Thalassa]

Usually on a hike I'll be primarily getting stoked on noticing a bird singing up in a tree or how the bark feels on my hand or how my breathing gets into this rhythm or I'll make sure not to step on a spider who's crossing the path.

I do things like that too, especially when I'm outdoors in nature.

 

[jenocyde]

No, it's not about YOU. There are comments throughout the entire thread, if you care to read, about Ns being upppity or prejudiced against Ss. I was referencing the fact that Brainheart turns off thoughts that "don't serve a purpose" and it reminded me of a certain person who I hope burns in hell.

Ahhh, I read the entire thread and I don't like to feed into function bias crap, which is why I've done all these posts to demystify all of this.

It's a shame that someone should want you to burn in hell for thinking thoughts - that sickens me. I get the same things from Fs who proclaim that I don't have feelings because I'm a T. I always ask them if they are able to think things...

No time for isms, just keep trucking on.

 

[Thalassa]

It's a shame that someone should want you to burn in hell for thinking thoughts - that sickens me. I get the same things from Fs who proclaim that I don't have feelings because I'm a T. I always ask them if they are able to think things...

My grandfather's wife would insult me and verbally abuse me for thinking about things that served no practical purpose to her . She told me when I was being creative that I was wasting time on "stupid shit."

 

[jenocyde]

I do pay close attention to sights, sounds, and smells though, very much so. I get lost in the big picture, and the tiniest of detail. I'm that person that goes around straightening pictures on a wall that are just the slightest bit off. At the same time, I "lose" the pencil behind my own ear, lock the keys in the car(frequently), and occasionally realize I've got on two different socks.

I can strongly relate to this. These types of experiences feel almost spiritual to me though.

You probably have a strong Te.

I never got the "feeling spiritual" thing. Can you describe that feeling in layman's terms?

 

[Charmed Justice]

You probably have a strong Te.

Is that another way of saying OCD?

It's not that bad though, but I do notice most things in small detail. So would that actually be Te?

I never got the "feeling spiritual" thing. Can you describe that feeling in layman's terms?

Hard to explain. I guess, for me, it's just a feeling of connecting to everything around me. Feeling really small in the midst of it all. Being in awe of everything, like a child discovering the world for the first time again. It's the realization that I'm largely unimportant in the grand scheme of things, but still a part of the bigger picture-which I find to be incredible in the smallest parts of the whole that I'm actually capable of grasping with my mind in the present.

 

[Snuggletron]

It reminds me of my grandfather's wife saying that I thought about things that "don't matter."

S/N prejudice begins at home, boys and girls, and extends both ways.

cannot relate more. Really frustrating.

 

[jenocyde]

Is that another way of saying OCD?

No. It's about the way you were organizing the paintings and things like that. Ne-Te is a powerful thing and has nothing to do with OCD.

It's not that bad though, but I do notice most things in small detail. So would that actually be Te?

No. But everyone notices details - it's more of what you notice first and what you are apt to retain. Te is external thinking. It is concerned with organization, Ti is concerned with analysis.

Hard to explain. I guess, for me, it's just a feeling of connecting to everything around me. Feeling really small in the midst of it all. Being in awe of everything, like a child discovering the world for the first time again. It's the realization that I'm largely unimportant in the grand scheme of things, but still a part of the bigger picture-which I find to be incredible in the smallest parts of the whole that I'm actually capable of grasping with my mind in the present.

I also can't fathom this. I know these things logically but I can't imagine the feeling of them.

This is very interesting to be able to see inside the minds of you guys. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Ruthie]

I didn't like my last answer - the fact that I had no idea. So I've been looking around and came across this How to tell iNtuiting from extraverted Sensing | Interstrength Associates. Maybe this helps?


One quote:

How to tell the forest from the trees!

Extraverted Sensing - Notices the rich detail in the whole forest - the trees, their color and texture, their sounds, their smells, the pattern of light and dark...

Introverted Sensing - Notes that this forest has always been here and recalls being in a forest from childhood, smelling that smell and the fun of playing hide and seek behind the trees...

Extraverted iNtuiting - Thinks of the fractal patterns, the wide range of possibilities in the forest, how this forest is part of the ecosystem and is affected by polllution from the city...

Introverted iNtuiting - Recognizes that the forest is deeply symbolic of all of life in its interconnectedness and constant recycling and growth and foresees that this forest will soon be torn down for a housing development...

In this, I'm Si first. Definitely. None of the others are even close.

 

[Ruthie]

Yeah, I don't think this description took the judging function into consideration. Processing Ne through Fi would certainly have an effect that looks more like the description for Ni, I would think. Or it would at least look different from someone who processed it through Ti.

Another difference between S and N (I have like 40 tabs open and I can't remember which one I just copied this from - damn Ne...)

S (Sensation) = Conscious perception; bottom-up approach to information; context emerges from the facts
N (Intuition) = Unconscious perception; top-down approach to information; pattern first, then related content

Extraverted Sensation (Se) = conscious perceptual experience: focuses on exploiting the immediate creative potential of manifest opportunity

Introverted Sensation (Si) = conscious perceptual impressions: focuses on the realistic relationship of new perceptual events to existing bodies of meaningful information


Extraverted Intuition (Ne) = unconscious perceptual experience: focuses on the contextual pattern that relates otherwise disparate facts to each other, increasing the possibilities for change

Introverted Intuition (Ni) = unconscious perceptual impressions: focuses on the potential relationship of existing perceptual meaning to alternate interpretive possibilities

On this, I'd say Si and Ne about equally, and neither really jumps out as being exactly right. Ni isn't that far back, and neither is Se, really. I guess none of these really resonate, but slightly more with Si and Ne.

 

[Charmed Justice]

I also can't fathom this. I know these things logically but I can't imagine the feeling of them.

Can you recall anything that thrilled you from the inside out as a child?

 

[Thalassa]

Huh. I relate most to Ni, Se, and Si, based on the above. Hardly Ne at all. If I had to decide, I'd have to say Ni and Si.

I actually relate the most to Si, and Ne next, but not while I'm actually *in* the forest...it would be Ne later in a different context.

That settles it. I'm really an ISFJ.

 

[jenocyde]

Can you recall anything that thrilled you from the inside out as a child?

Of course, so many things! Exploring and finding out how things worked was always so much fun. I was talking more about the feeling of being connected to something. I don't believe I've ever felt that, and if I have, it definitely wasn't in a positive way - as far as I can remember. All this talk of spirituality and connection - it just goes over my head.

 

[Charmed Justice]

Of course, so many things! Exploring and finding out how things worked was always so much fun. I was talking more about the feeling of being connected to something. I don't believe I've ever felt that, and if I have, it definitely wasn't in a positive way - as far as I can remember. All this talk of spirituality and connection - it just goes over my head.

Ha! The excitement alone is more than half of my feeling of "spirituality". So, in part, it's kinda that enthusiasm and excitement we had as children that I'm trying to describe. The rest is perhaps projecting my recalled experience of connectedness to my mother as a young child, the feeling of fuzziness and warmth I had with her, onto my entire interaction with the world around me.

I actually relate the most to Si, and Ne next, but not while I'm actually *in* the forest...it would be Ne later in a different context.

That settles it. I'm really an ISFJ.

lol...I knew it all along.

 

[Ruthie]

Wow, that is intense.

I mean I will have moments like that, sometimes, but I think it is far more conscious, practical- like, 'okay, what if there was a wreck and I needed to fend for myself and kill a bear, what would I do?' And then I will observe my surroundings and think about it. Typically, however, after a little while I think, "meh. If it happens- and chances are seriously unlikely- I'll figure it out when the time comes."

Usually on a hike I'll be primarily getting stoked on noticing a bird singing up in a tree or how the bark feels on my hand or how my breathing gets into this rhythm or I'll make sure not to step on a spider who's crossing the path. I'll also do a bit of the Ni description you had for the forest, too. But I try not to because then I get all pissed about stupid developers and their greed, etc, and I didn't go on this hike to get pissed off. But there will be the positive aspects of Ni as well- the Se is just far more prominent.

It's amazing how different Si and Se can behave actually. I go for long walks almost every day, and almost always the same route. I pass the same buildings, same bus stops, pass the same boats in the harbor... But I don't really see them at all. The past 4 days in a row, I've walked right into the same tree branch hanging over a sidewalk. 4 straight days! Last week, this guy walking into an apartment building said hello to me, and commented that he sees me out there all the time. I didn't recognize him at all.

I am 100% in my head, usually daydreaming, but many times working through some new idea or theory I've been toying with. I never start imagining random possibilities, like what I would do if I was hit by a car, or anything like that.

Mostly, it's like I work out movie scenes in my mind - with long-standing characters and plots I've imagined over time (I'm never a character in these stories). Then I pick a set of songs on my iPod that would best score those scenes, and I just zone out. I never write the stuff down. It just serves as a nice escape for an hour or so. It's my own entertainment. The scenes are always very grounded in the possible. The characters are realistic, the settings are places I'm familiar with, and the time is always the present or the past. Sometimes, I'll realize that something in my daydream would be logistically impossible, or is inconsistent with something I'd already established. Rather than being able to let that slip, I'll have to go back and re-work in my mind how it would be possible.

Sometimes, I'll be so into my daydreams that I'll realize I'm making expressions that go along with the "scene." I'm always worried people passing by will notice and wonder what the hell is wrong with me!

 

[jenocyde]

It's funny, Ruthie. I do that too with the storylines, but I use new characters but the setting can be in the past, present or future. I have no preference usually, it just depends on my mood. I definitely score my daydreams, too. And everytime I hear that playlist, I remember the scenario I was thinking about at the time (plus or minus a few details). Maybe in those moments, you are just using Ne (or I'm using Si?) I mean, everybody uses N and S to some extent. But if something is not possible, I change the storyline to adapt, I don't go back and rework what I have "written" in my mind.

When I am working, I am in super-Te mode, which I find is thrilling and fun - but only for a finite amount of time. I am more comfortable in Ti. Can you wander around daydreaming all day, or is it just for that hour or two?