The alternative/real function orders

[Virtual ghost]

As you probably already know I am quite skeptical about the entire function order thing. So I am opening a thread where people can post alternative function combinations for each type. If you think that some type has wrong cobination. I mean if you think that MBTI and reality are going separate ways in this thread was can discuss that. In MBTI every thing is so "symetrical" that it simply can't be correct. (in my opinion)



For people that don't know function order I will provde it for them .


So here is an example of what I am asking/talking about.
OK, first four function.



For example
ENFP = Ne.Fi,Te,Si


But from what I saw
Ne,Fi,Ti,Se sounds more correct.




Even Ne,Fi,Fe,Ti could make sense.


Is there any other suggestion about this ?
I mean there is a huge number of possibilities when it comes to all types.
However I am aware of the fact that we are all indivduals.


Disscus.

 

[BlackCat]

Well it depends on what you mean by order. Everyone has different function STRENGTHS, but everyone of the same type will have the same function order when it comes to how the functions are used.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Well it depends on what you mean by order. Everyone has different function STRENGTHS, but everyone of the same type will have the same function order when it comes to how the functions are used.

You have any eveidence to support this ?

 

[Amargith]

A.O, do you mean by using the results you get from a function test?

Coz then I go Ne=Fi, Ni=Fe, and then the other 4

 

[Virtual ghost]

A.O, do you mean by using the results you get from a function test?

Coz then I go Ne=Fi, Ni=Fe, and then the other 4

I am only asking if someone else also thinks that types can be better described with some other function order.

 

[simulatedworld]

Shadow functions (the four apart from your preferred ones) are not exercised directly.

Sometimes you may think you are seeing, say, Si from an ENFJ, but it's really just the ENFJ's Ni resembling it.

As for the order of the primary four, some people lack development of the secondary or tertiary, so for instance if you see someone who appears to be Ti-Si it's probably an INTP with underdeveloped secondary Ne.

Most of the weird combinations are just regular types with weird functional disorders that result in some sort of clear unbalance.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Shadow functions (the four apart from your preferred ones) are not exercised directly.

Sometimes you may think you are seeing, say, Si from an ENFJ, but it's really just the ENFJ's Ni resembling it.

As for the order of the primary four, some people lack development of the secondary or tertiary, so for instance if you see someone who appears to be Ti-Si it's probably an INTP with underdeveloped secondary Ne.

Most of the weird combinations are just regular types with weird functional disorders that result in some sort of clear unbalance.

Ok, but what is the point in taking function tests then?

 

[The_Liquid_Laser]

I keep the functions in the same order, but I ignore the E/I aspect of the last two functions. For example an INTJ would be

Ni, Te, F, S

 

[DuoRCN]

Seeing as how functional order would be based on what the opposite of your two preferred functions would be, I generally agree with them. Since the system is based on duals, and functions being the opposite of each other, it would make sense for it to be symmetric, no? Like hot and cold, though here, things are defined as extraverted and introverted, intuition and sensation, thinking and feeling.
As for evidence, I have none. I think it's a bit tough to apply objectivity to something so subjective as personality.

 

[Poki]

I think the subconcious can play a huge part in perception vs reality. So while someone may act a certain way they may do so unconciously. They will relate to there concious thought. I think that from the inside we see concious, but from the outside we see everything.

I think this can really screw things up though when analyzing how a person is with how they appear. It can also cause false intentions to be read. It doesnt mean your reasoning is not correct, but the "intention" you assigned the other person is wrong. It is where logic and reality colide. The fact that we can do something without fully understanding what we are doing.

 

[the state i am in]

Shadow functions (the four apart from your preferred ones) are not exercised directly.

Sometimes you may think you are seeing, say, Si from an ENFJ, but it's really just the ENFJ's Ni resembling it.

As for the order of the primary four, some people lack development of the secondary or tertiary, so for instance if you see someone who appears to be Ti-Si it's probably an INTP with underdeveloped secondary Ne.

Most of the weird combinations are just regular types with weird functional disorders that result in some sort of clear unbalance.

+1

i also think that the primary side as conscious and the other side as unconscious is a helpful distinction. right brained (p) and left brained (j) make a lot of sense to me in my mb analysis of myself and others (extraverted perception vs introverted perception).

i think the apparent (auxilary alternative) of Te for an infj's Fe is more a haphazard combination of Fe-Ti looking somewhat similarly, i can never truly use Te to anything that is more than a remote resemblance. i can never completely table Fe, so it doesn't work simultaneously. i think the stress of the inferior is a very real and present problem for many people as well. tertiary as relief makes sense too, altho i think tertiary is capable of so much more personality definition than just a relief function (but supportive only, as awareness and balance from the first two functions swells)

 

[nanook]

function order is not a linear thing. we just line them up, to make abstract speech possible (like "everyone's third function ... is the opposite of ...."). we could just assign any number or letter (a,b,c) to any function. the question is not the "strength" or "position" of the functions, but the role it plays, in the dancing formation of the bunch.

for a lot of people, their shadow is more apparent than their second function, especially if they misunderstand their first and second function in such a way, that they conceptualize them as a single function (for example TiNe plus shadow-Fe could be conceptualized (misinterpreted) as Ni + [Te/Fe] )

(in this post, I use the term shadow as carl jung did, who clearly associates a Fe shadow with Ti types, and by shadow - in this context only - he means something that rules your live like an archaic god who enslaves you. you consciously follow the commands of the commanding domain, but can't alter the attitude of the commander because you dont own it)

 

[simulatedworld]

Ok, but what is the point in taking function tests then?

Absolutely nothing. They are literally total bullshit because they don't test your shadow functions, only your natural functions' ability to imitate them in a problem-solving environment.

And yet you get people running around saying OMG MY FI, FE, NI AND NE ARE ALL EQUAL CUZ THIS FUNCTION TEST SAID SO!!! which is absolutely retarded.

Function tests are even worse than basic type tests--all of them are bullshit.

 

[Amargith]

Absolutely nothing. They are literally total bullshit because they don't test your shadow functions, only your natural functions' ability to imitate them in a problem-solving environment.

And yet you get people running around saying OMG MY FI, FE, NI AND NE ARE ALL EQUAL CUZ THIS FUNCTION TEST SAID SO!!! which is absolutely retarded.

Function tests are even worse than basic type tests--all of them are bullshit.

*kicks SW*

 

[simulatedworld]

Think about it, Amargith.

These tests purport to test the way in which your brain perceives problems...by simply asking you how your brain perceives problems.

Don't any problems with that seem to jump out at you?

(HINT: It depends on self-report.)

 

[redacted]

I think the order makes sense (and by order, i'm mostly talking about function roles, not amount of usage...) if you take the directions off.

So an ESTJ is T, S, N, F... those functions tend to go in alternating directions, but not always, especially after the 2nd. If T is really really extroverted, Ti might be 5th or 6th in terms of usage in the 8 function order. If T is barely extroverted, Ti might be 2nd.

Check out my type calculator.

 

[simulatedworld]

I think the order makes sense (and by order, i'm mostly talking about function roles, not amount of usage...) if you take the directions off.

So an ESTJ is T, S, N, F... those functions tend to go in alternating directions, but not always, especially after the 2nd. If T is really really extroverted, Ti might be 5th or 6th in terms of usage in the 8 function order. If T is barely extroverted, Ti might be 2nd.

Check out my type calculator.

This is because you're totally unimaginative. Just ask Jaguar.

 

[LostInNerSpace]

Ti might be 2nd.

Check out my type calculator.

Who's first? HP? Casio? Microsoft (Start->Run->Calc)?

 

[redacted]

Huh?

 

[Amargith]

Think about it, Amargith.

These tests purport to test the way in which your brain perceives problems...by simply asking you how your brain perceives problems.

Don't any problems with that seem to jump out at you?

(HINT: It depends on self-report.)

SW, I dunno enough about the theory to really have an opinion on this. Btw, my post was in jest, in case you didn't notice

And, I'm sorry, but the description of Ni does fit me like a glove. When Ni-users talk about how and why they use it, I'm not as adept as they are, but I do 75 percent of that as well. I really doubt that's Ne filling in. Could be though. I dunno.

Whoever is right, it would be nice though, if I could ask these questions and maybe be wrong, without you rolling your eyes at and making fun of those that, like me, ask such questions though